3 retired Generals to be court-martialed in NLC scam

[VCheng]

No one is against what you have said.

i think that's exactly what is happening, except that attention seekers have found a way to satiate their lust by sensationalizing the issue...............

Sir, you know me well enough by now to know that I do not hesitate to criticize the military if I think it necessary. However, in this case, if you notice, all I have said is that justice meted out by the appropriate court of law is the only important thing for dispensing justice.

As long as justice is done, and it is seen to be done, it is good. That is all. Please ignore all the rest.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

as per a report released in the last year or so, the average (and i emphasize the word AVERAGE) worth of members of Parliament was in the tune of US$ 9 lakh

try living on a soldier's salary

the Army hasn't always been corruption free; that's no secret. However it is still one (perhaps the only) largely clean institution in the country

but then again, we're a nation that re-elects the same crooks over and over again....and then we whine and burn tires and shout slogans after words.

yai haal hai

 

[blain2]

Why should we be thankful for army to prosecute three criminals for abusing the trust of the whole nation ?, what kind of thinking is that? Remember its the same army who named Yahya khan (general) "tiger" for losing half the pakistan , wake up my friend this army thinks pakistan is their hoar and they can rape her whenever they want

You are so clueless that its not even worth it to explain to you the differences here. Your maligning a national institution on the basis of idiotic assumptions won't be tolerated either. Be mindful of that.

 

[VCheng]

as per a report released in the last year or so, the average (and i emphasize the word AVERAGE) worth of members of Parliament was in the tune of US$ 9 lakh

try living on a soldier's salary

the Army hasn't always been corruption free; that's no secret. However it is still one (perhaps the only) largely clean institution in the country

but then again, we're a nation that re-elects the same crooks over and over again....and then we whine and burn tires and shout slogans after words.

yai haal hai

The fact that there are other, bigger thieves of national resources should not, and can not, be used as a justification for similar behavior by senior army officers.

We must wait for the proper process to complete. There is a charge of corruption against three Generals. A proper court has been constituted. The proceedings need to complete, allowing both sides to present their prosecutory and defensive evidence, to lead to a verdict. Then and only then can there be a sentencing with punishments awarded according to the verdict.

I see nothing to criticize here thus far.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The fact that there are other, bigger thieves of national resources should not, and can not, be used as a justification for similar behavior by senior army officers

did i suggest otherwise?

We must wait for the proper process to complete. There is a charge of corruption against three Generals. A proper court has been constituted. The proceedings need to complete, allowing both sides to present their prosecutory and defensive evidence, to lead to a verdict. Then and only then can there be a sentencing with punishments awarded according to the verdict.

I see nothing to criticize here thus far.

if a retired Gen. is implicated the whole media -- dawn and all them go haywire.

and meanwhile your sadr saab has how many active cases against him and the government is absonding


all that in the name of what was it? national reconciliation?



yeah, ohhhhhkayyyy..

 

[VCheng]

did i suggest otherwise?

Did I say you did?

if a retired Gen. is implicated the whole media -- dawn and all them go haywire.

and meanwhile your sadr saab has how many active cases against him and the government is absonding


all that in the name of what was it? national reconciliation?



yeah, ohhhhhkayyyy..

Again, like I said above, let the court with jurisdiction prosecute the civilian wrongdoers, just like the court martial will sit in judgement of these three Generals.

Why get worked up about due process that has yet to complete?

==========================

Edit:

Please note that being fair is more than mere words as one has to prove it by actions, which is not always easy or popular. I was vilified was saying something similar for the RD trial: Let the due process work first. Here I am saying the same thing for accused Generals: Let the due process go through its steps first.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

yes, let due process work.....i dont suggest contrarily

i dont hold the courts in contempt per se...id never do that. I can assure all others with my word that it's my policy to respect the civil and other institutions

but i hold the politicization and seductiveness of these courts in contempt; certain individuals who are above the law. Graft in exchange for political favours, etc.

these leftists and enthiusiastic liberals sitting in their AC'd rooms blindly blaming the military for graft or corruption have their own agenda; its no secret. Ayesha Siddiquis come a dime a dozen.

the biggest absconders, the biggest plunderes of our nation are the parliamentarians. You ever seen the parking lot, they aint driving Altos. I have nothing against wealth; rich and poor alike are eligible to run. I have something against cronyism and corruption. If we gonna call ourselves as Islamic Republic, lets do the most "Islamic" thing and punish and make examples of those that compromise our country and help keep it mired in debt and mismanagement


discipline....we must have discipline.


poor and tax paying middle class shouldnt be subsidizing the lifestyle of rich political elites whose loyalty is not to the flag or the country - but to their bank accounts

 

[VCheng]

yes, let due process work.....i dont suggest contrarily

I hope you actively support all due process, as impartially as you are able to. That is only fair, and the correct thing to do.

 

[VCheng]

..............
poor and tax paying middle class shouldnt be subsidizing the lifestyle of rich political elites whose loyalty is not to the flag or the country - but to their bank accounts

Not just the political elites, but the military ones too. Be fair now, please.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Not just the political elites, but the military ones too. Be fair now, please.

the air force was late on their power bill back in 2010....on graft, cronyism - well i just dont see signs of any of it happening in the military. Im not saying there isnt a Col. here or there who may or may not doing some activity in private we could call 'corrupt'...id expect the military or even the spooks to become aware of it and take action. Army takes these things seriously b/c people who engage in lapses of integrity could also demonstrate lack of good judgement or some other insubordinate, unbecoming activity.


if you have any information or privileged or otherwise- you can share, do share

 

[VCheng]

............


if you have any information or privileged or otherwise- you can share, do share

For now, and at least in this thread, let us just remain on the topic of the NLC scam and its trial.

(You know I will not hesitate to share my thoughts and information here at the opportune times.)

 

[Xeric]

@V and Abu

i'll just give one example and then i'll retire from this thread.

As Abu pointed out in his post; "Army takes these things seriously b/c people who engage in lapses of integrity could also demonstrate lack of good judgement or some other insubordinate, unbecoming activity.", i must tell you that once i had this CO when i was a junior officer who was a a true representation of our Army and how it normally behaves.

i dont know if you know this or not, but monthly mess bills of Officers are circulated through sarkari mail so that they reach the concerned officer wherever he is, meaning thereby that the CO gets to know how much mess expenditure his officers are doing.

Now guess what, whenever some officer's bill was 'more' (there can be no criteria of more or less in this case because the bill is what the officers expend from his OWN pocket and no one should be bothered about how much cigarettes he smoke or juices he drink or ice creams he eat, or is it? i ask you V? i mean your monthly expenditure may be 10 times what Abu's is, why should someone be bothered about it, till the time you are paying it on time?), so i was saying whenever the bill was 'more', the CO would indirectly, during Tea Breaks or casual meetings with Officers convey us, that you guys better start controlling your mess bills, or else i am going to write it in your ACRs that:

'the Officer lives beyond his means and thus may develop the tendency of looking for other avenues of income' thereby implying that he has a higher likelihood of embezzling funds in future when he grows up in rank and stature.

Now this statement in your ACR means that you'll be getting a "Letter of Thanks" from the Army within one year!

Hun aram aye..?? lolzzz

So that's the kind of (casual) check the military imposes upon its Officers, and yet there are so many other "real" check that we have in place in addition to such checks.

i mean, you are grooming the officers on the correct path from the very beginning then how can one expect them to go corrupt? This is notwithstanding the fact the still black sheep are everywhere.

 

[Mabs]

Bhai ji, perceptions shape opinions.

Seriously, if this is what actually lie inside PTI, then i dont them to be in power. Insy tu behtar PPP or PML he hai, atleast baat tu insaano wali kartay hain, chahay kitnay he bray chawal he kyn na hon. Even Zardari has brains, though it leans toward the evil side. Atleast he knows how to deal with complicated issues.

Ye tu bhai aik seedhay sadhay mamlay ko mazeed uljhanay k mahir hain. Lagwa daingy Pakistan ko ye agar yehe stance raha inka.

Meray Bhai, policies are formed by the leadership and not me, you or anyone else for that matter. We just follow if we feel they are worth following. Listen and analyze the policies being churned out by the PTI leadership, and see if they make sense. I'm sure you just lost it when you said that you are being negatively influenced by Leader's ideas, but remember you in your capacity, personal or professional exert influence over certain individuals, and they might not be able to differentiate between an impulsive and a restrained response.

We are at a stage in our history, where we can not afford to make any more mistakes. If this country, and we as a people want to survive, everyone has to stand up and be counted.

 

[VCheng]

@V and Abu

i'll just give one example and then i'll retire from this thread.

..................
Now guess what, whenever some officer's bill was 'more' (there can be no criteria of more or less in this case because the bill is what the officers expend from his OWN pocket and no one should be bothered about how much cigarettes he smoke or juices he drink or ice creams he eat, or is it? i ask you V? i mean your monthly expenditure may be 10 times what Abu's is, why should someone be bothered about it, till the time you are paying it on time?), so i was saying whenever the bill was 'more', the CO would indirectly, during Tea Breaks or casual meetings with Officers convey us, that you guys better start controlling your mess bills, or else i am going to write it in your ACRs that:

'the Officer lives beyond his means and thus may develop the tendency of looking for other avenues of income' thereby implying that he has a higher likelihood of embezzling funds in future when he grows up in rank and stature.

Now this statement in your ACR means that you'll be getting a "Letter of Thanks" from the Army within one year!
......................

I am sure that regular practices of the Army are good in proper "grooming" of the officers from the very start.

Please note that I have nothing but the highest of admiration and praise for the rank and file, and have no doubt that the system of checks and balances keeps most of them on the straight and narrow, exemplified by your post.

However, senior Army leadership and their corruption, such as the one that is the topic of this thread, is another matter entirely, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Mabs]

Not just the political elites, but the military ones too. Be fair now, please.

I think, what VCheng is trying to say is that all senior government officials live like kings, and thus are part of this faulty system which takes from the poor and spends it on the rich. I would not call it corrupt because they do it by the book, meaning the system allows them the unfair privileges which they take advantage of. I can say this, because I was friends with a son of a GOC, and his house was nothing less than a 5 - star hotel.