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3 retired Generals to be court-martialed in NLC scam

Sir you missed my question. I'm rephrasing it.

What disciplinary action will be taken of a unit/station commander makes illegal profit (or lets say succeeds in getting profit by violating laws) of the unit/station's money? (Of course he can use it to fill some pockets or can put it into good use by adjusting it in tenders).

And on these grounds he can face court martial or immediate retirement?
Yaar i am still unable to understand your question. Still what i can tell you is that making illegal profit will fall under 'misuse of govt funds', embezzlement or fraud. and so the culprit if tried by a court martial can be sentenced upto 10 years (maximum) or may be it is 15, i have to check.

Immediate retirement will depend upon the intensity of the crime. If the niyaat was to make money for own use Vs making money for unit's use, though both fall under the same section, but still one may get a certain benefit as would happen in any court of law.


P.S WTF is marshal punishment? :blink:
 
Jungle ka qanon hai, koe kiya keh sakta hai... jab chahye jo chahye jese chahye ker lain... :D



I am also of the view that its to protect the retired generals.. though it is true marshal courts are like fast track courts...

the point I raised is simple if they are found guilty why not marshal punishment, even Brig Ali and his associates are awarded only 5 years of imprisonment though their crimes were of very grave nature.

unless Military leadership is not ready to cut its own skin, its not going to carve any benefit for the institution !!

P.S. and ofcourse present itself for accountability to the democratic government. So that every bolt starts to work at its position !!

@bold..Every time, u amaze me, with your hate for Pakistan military..Which jungle ka qanoon ..are u talking abt? Now tht all your objections, have been answered by ISPR in detail ....(background of the case and the reasons for adopting the current procedure).....is this the best u could come up with?:disagree:.. Now tht everyone knows, u have blind hatred for military which defies every logic...try to come up with something better next time..which would make u appear a lesser fool than this one...coz here, you have only exposed yourself by defying every logic..

Ok.so u say military courts should have given capital punishments to Brig Ali? Hmm..nice...but theres one prob.. Military will give punishment as mentioned in their code of law, not to please you or anyone else..:)..U think punishment was less than he deserved...but..Would to like to plzz tell..how many terrorists have been punished by civilian courts..by so called independent judiciary..in these 10 yrs? Civilian courts have released terrorists..on even more grave crimes :)..... A recent example being.. Maulana Aziz...of Lal Masjid.. He has been released by court... So atleast appreciate tht Brig Ali and his associates were awarded 5 yrs punishment...I am sure he would have been released..had he been tried in a civilian court..which u are so fond of.....But then u wouldnt appreciate military bcoz u are blinded by your hate...

Military should present itself for accountability to the democratic govt? Hmm... I think ghosts of Gen Pasha, and Gen Kiyani were present last yr in parliament after May 2...:confused:.. But before tht, what abt the accountability of democatic govt itself? Accountability of Zardari? Wht credibilty does Zardari's govt have? What abt Hussain haqqani..who is enjoying life in US...even being confirmed traitor by a "civilian judicial commission"( (i-e Memo commission)..but these civilian court..still couldnt call him back to Pakistan yet...and start his formal trail and he continues to bark against Pak, from US...:rolleyes:Atleast military did recall their retired officers and started investigations against them....:)....Also, I just read today somewhere tht Ali Musa Gilani,(accused in Ephedrine case) has been made member of PAC by Zardari...Democracy at its best..:enjoy:
 
I think he meant capital punishment, killing the culprit.
Oh ok...the PTI school-of-thought punishment. He has to wait for it till the time IK is in power.

@Leader
BTW, for creating mutiny the MAXIMUM punishment is death penalty, especially if a physical action has been done to that effect and have resulted into loss of lives. Khali batain cho**nay say mutiny nahi hojati.

It's just like not every murderer is given a death penalty.
 
Oh ok...the PTI school-of-thought punishment. He has to wait for it till the time IK is in power.

@Leader
BTW, for creating mutiny the MAXIMUM punishment is death penalty, especially if a physical action has been done to that effect and have resulted into loss of lives. Khali batain cho**nay say mutiny nahi hojati.

It's just like not every murderer is given a death penalty.

First the Army asked him to voluntarily retire, Brig sahib wanted a trial, he was given a one and severe allegations were proven against him and his associates... his link with HuT was established, and we all know that this organization is notoriously associated with British intelligence... what else can raise the occasion to award harsh punishment?

martial courts are a different setup, especially the imperialist one, even death can be rewarded for absconders. Especially Pakistani army needs to set an example that DISCIPLINE comes first, persons dont matter, its the system, the institution which should be more important in all given circumstances

Unfortunately that is not being the case, the NLC record is not being shared with NAB, and prosecution too is taken away, I wouldnot mind if justice was expected, but its all rotten eggs of the same basket.
 
even death can be rewarded for absconders.

No, it cannot be awarded.

Pakistan and its Army is still a far cry from jungle raj, if you what i mean.
 
When the army means business

Taj M Khattak

Tuesday, September 18, 2012





Commenting on Naval Appellate Tribunals, where some convicted by a court- martial were given relief on appeal, former president Pervez Musharraf once made a tongue-in-cheek remark: “When we court-martial someone in the army, we mean business and do so to fix him up properly.” Since that generally seems to be true, the dice is loaded against the three general officers now facing court-martial after being recalled into service from retirement and any insinuation that they are being shielded is unfair and misplaced, at the very least.



There will be no hair-splitting arguments during hearings by well-heeled lawyers or observations by the bench on various articles of the Constitution and no lengthy adjournments. In fact, the accused will be lucky if the members of the court (or the bench, if you like) had passed their military law paper for promotion from captain to major on first attempt, such being disdain of young officers towards matter of law, which over time sadly nurtures into a mindset of November 3, 2007.



Two of the three officers are of the rank of lieutenant general, which is nearly as high as one can get in the armed forces. The next higher and last rung of the ladder, as per our belief, is in the hands of Providence, albeit with no minor shenanigans from earthlings below. If the lapses of such senior officers are discovered so belatedly and are as serious in nature to warrant their court-martial, then something has gone amiss in the military’s internal accountability process, so forcefully defended by Gen Musharraf on every possible occasion. Their retired status would matter little as they still served at the pleasure of the service chief.



Some countries like France and Germany have done away with court-martials in peacetime and try everyone under one legal system. In India army courts can try uniformed personnel for all kinds of offences, except murder and rape of a civilian. Court-martials of senior officers in the Indian army is nothing new where up to 16 major generals and lieutenant generals have been censured so far, including one for stealing the affection of a fellow officer’s wife, a thievery in which we excel wearing all hues of fabric, but any further comment would be a digression too far.



From what has appeared in the media, the reported irregularities are mindboggling and unbelievable. More alarming is the fact that, although discovered belatedly, the accountability process now set in motion is not an outcome of the military’s own cleansing drive; rather it is perceived as reluctant action in response to incessant pressure from the Public Accounts Committee of parliament and media. The PAC had earlier directed the National Accountability Bureau to proceed in the matter but recent remarks by chief justice about functioning of the National Accountability Bureau make the national scene more depressive and murkier. In less corrupt times, late Gen Yahya Khan and Lt Gen A A K Niazi both repeatedly asked for court-martials as their fundamental right for determination of the roles played by various actors in the 1971 debacle, but were refused by the rulers of the time.



The accused in the NLC scam are both military officers and civilians, and are to be tried separately under military and civil criminal laws. It remains to be seen how the two courts balance out the burden of crime and responsibility fairly between military personnel and civilians and yet meet the ends of justice. The reported reluctance of the GHQ to hand over evidence of the case for trial of the civilians might make this task more challenging. The difference of opinion on this and on issue of trial of military personnel by a civilian court is understandable. While the COAS would probably like to get done with this unpleasant task as soon as possible, belated as it has been, some other lobbies may have a vested interest in dragging the military through the mud in full media glare. It must have been difficult for General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani to throw his former colleagues under the bus, but such are the wages of an extension in service.



In January 2011, Lt Gen P K Rath of the Indian army was sentenced by a court-martial in a case known as Sukhna land scam. The example was later cited by Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhary during a hearing and he urged Pakistan to follow that precedence. That, of course, was before young Arsalan journeyed to Monte Carlo, a name which evokes memories of a 1944 movie Casablanca. In one scene, a law-enforcing officer (Humphrey Bogart), bursts into a vice den and feigns shock at the ongoing gambling activity. As the casino owner recovers from the shock of the raid, the nearest table attendant, sensing a delicate moment, instantly thrusts a wad of currency notes in the inspector’s hands and declares, “Your winnings, sir.” The inspector pockets the money with a bland “Thank you very much indeed” and carries on.



There was a time when uniformed men and civil bureaucracy would aspire for higher positions for dignity and honour and earn an honest living. That has changed a lot as the major inspiration to climb up the ladder of success nowadays is for material gains, fair-or-foul be damned. If we really loathe corruption, the civil society will have to downgrade its recognition of the corrupt and shun them as they deserve no respect. They are the scum of the earth who bring bad name to the institutions they serve and create living hell for their families.



The summary nature of the military law notwithstanding, the accused in this trial should get full justice. It should not strengthen any perceptions that they have been made scapegoats to distract attention from the unprecedented corruption of this government. The navy is still reeling from the Agosta-90 scam, but over time anger against errant officers began to cool down as the political tier, the major beneficiary, went laughing all the way to the bank, and actions against others in sister services, with no less serious charges, were ignored.



This trial should also not be an end in itself but the beginning of a cleansing process. For every name which surfaces in the media there are many in the background who might have been craftier in covering their tracks, which has now become something of a fine art in Pakistan. Big names continue to surface from time to time but there actions are always brushed aside as an old story. There might be difficulties with the extent of disclosures in some cases, but heavens will not fall.



The state has to be detoxified of this poison, so let us get to the facts “preposthumously” on some known skeletons in the cupboard, while we can. For success, however, the government will have to get serious and reorient itself from the prevailing pro-corruption environment to a decisively anti-corruption one. It does not help the anti-corruption cause when the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces is himself tainted and the prime minister has “Rental” as a sobriquet. All pillars of the state have to measure up to the same level of moral conduct in the struggle against corruption.



It is true that in a democracy it is the politicians who take political decisions and the military just obeys. For this to work harmoniously, however, the politicians ought to grasp the full measure of the military and for the military to have full confidence in the moral and intellectual intensity and extensity of its civilian masters. These two have to be fine-tuned to avoid a yawning gap which spawns civil-military frictions and works against traction of democratic traditions on a sustainable basis.



The ordinary jawan in the army is a priceless asset and one of the very best human resources in the world. We have already lost over three thousands of them and still passing through difficult times. The army as a national institution is much bigger than the three general officers now in the dock or its COAS. The jawan gives up his life for his faith, flag and country. It is our national responsibility not to have him waivering from his resolve, something we must not lose sight of while pontificating on this trial.



The write is a retired vice admiral. Email: tajkhattak@ymail.com
 
even death can be rewarded for absconders.

No, it cannot be awarded.

Pakistan and its Army is still a far cry from jungle raj, if you what i mean.

hope you are right as stranger things can / have happened!
 
Although there might some problems in NLC but will they going to buy new trucks like MAN which will going to be produced soon????
 
It is good these retired rouges are to be trialed
What about hundreds and thousands more which are destroying all public dept., edu, universities, sports, health etc etc
These retired officers undermine civilians and skilled people, hope some one will attend to that
 
You haters will keep on monegring.

Educate yourself for what a court martial is and then open your beaks here!

i didnt get the first line
about the second line, why dont you educate us instead of just turning red
 
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