3 more OHP class Frigates to be delivered to Pakistan between 2014-2016.

[Nishan_101]

Agree, some more ships of the OHP variety may come available from Turkey. They again, those are older ships than are currently still sailing with USN....

If Pakistan can produce frigates and submarines at home, then that's the way to go.

PM does NOT need SSBN, SSGN or SSN. There is no need for a range of different sub types: it is better to have one type that can fullfill a number of roles.

So its 100% better for PN to give away with US permission the OHP we have and PN needs to build F-22P Block-IIs or an entirely new Frigate like of 5000 Tons max. and 25 tons Corvette Max. In a numbers like:

5000 Tons Frigate max. = 11
2500 Tons Corvette max.= 11-14
1100 Tons FAC max. = 16

This will allow PN to sell 4 F-22P and 2 FAC to any other country in coming 7 years time.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

So its 100% better for PN to give away with US permission the OHP we have and PN needs to build F-22P Block-IIs or an entirely new Frigate like of 5000 Tons max. and 25 tons Corvette Max. In a numbers like:

5000 Tons Frigate max. = 11
2500 Tons Corvette max.= 11-14
1100 Tons FAC max. = 16

This will allow PN to sell 4 F-22P and 2 FAC to any other country in coming 7 years time.

if u cannot discuss anything seriously please stop posting such rubbish
do we have money to buy yourc dream goodies ?

 

[kaykay]

So its 100% better for PN to give away with US permission the OHP we have and PN needs to build F-22P Block-IIs or an entirely new Frigate like of 5000 Tons max. and 25 tons Corvette Max. In a numbers like:

5000 Tons Frigate max. = 11
2500 Tons Corvette max.= 11-14
1100 Tons FAC max. = 16

This will allow PN to sell 4 F-22P and 2 FAC to any other country in coming 7 years time.

That would take atleast 2 decades and your Navy alone will need atleast $5-6 Billion/annum budget.

 

[monitor]

So its 100% better for PN to give away with US permission the OHP we have and PN needs to build F-22P Block-IIs or an entirely new Frigate like of 5000 Tons max. and 25 tons Corvette Max. In a numbers like:

5000 Tons Frigate max. = 11
2500 Tons Corvette max.= 11-14
1100 Tons FAC max. = 16

This will allow PN to sell 4 F-22P and 2 FAC to any other country in coming 7 years time.

Whom you want to fight with this giant fleet
better to invest few stealth Type 54B along with 2~4 destroyer from China along with F-22p with some modification in latter batch. a fleet composition would 4 destroyer ~5 stealth frigate 10 F-22p enough to deter your main enemy from any attack . beside this modest fleet of sub and FAC thats enough i think .

 

[rockstar08]

PN should ask USN to give another 11 OHPs to PN for free and PN should upgrade it at home and sell the 4 F-22Ps to BDs...

looks like you are a " jugardo " man ..... buy , upgrade and sell

 

[Penguin]

So its 100% better for PN to give away with US permission the OHP we have and PN needs to build F-22P Block-IIs or an entirely new Frigate like of 5000 Tons max. and 25 tons Corvette Max. In a numbers like:

5000 Tons Frigate max. = 11
2500 Tons Corvette max.= 11-14
1100 Tons FAC max. = 16

This will allow PN to sell 4 F-22P and 2 FAC to any other country in coming 7 years time.

Uhm no, not at all. PN is facing block obsolescense in its major surface units. Anything that will bring down average fleet age should be encouraged.

 

[Pakistanisage]

OHP is a very competent platform inspite of the age (35 years old)

However, i think it would be wise for Pakistan to build more upgraded F-22P and use them as the backbone of PN, but then there would be a problem of F-22P and their light armament, while it's either competent to do Anti-Air and Anti-Ship attack, it's not enough to do both. PN would probably wise to acquire more OHP for supplymentry service and take the load off of the F-22P, i reckon PN should look at acquiring more OHP (either from US or other Allied like Spain or Australia), while the OHP focus on Aerial Target, F-22P focus on Sea/Ground target. PN should also consider putting Mk41 VLS on their OHP frigate.

In theory, it's best for PN to have at least 12 F-22P and 8 OHP in service. Eventually PN would require to have air defence destroyer if they want to competently hold the naval region they Own.

Depend on what is PN intentional target, if PN goal is to counter India in this aim, the best PN can do is to hold India as long as you can in case of war, and awaiting the Chinese Fleet intervention. I think ultimately, PN would need about 12 Subs (Nuclear/Diesel) 30 Frigate (20 F-22P combine with other Frigate, OHP or homemade) and 10 Destroyer (Possible Type 52C/D or later) to be able to competently defend Pakistani Coast

I sincerely hope Pakistan does not spend anymore money on the useless F22-P's and for 60 million more usd get 8 more Type 54-A Stealth Frigates ( we paid 175 million usd for each of those F22-P whereas the much more powerful Type 54-A is $230 million ). F22-P Air Defence System sucks. It uses FM-90 (HQ-7) Air Defence missile with a range of 15 KM and has no VLS. Type 54-A uses Stealth Technology and has 32 VLS using HQ-16 and much stronger Sensors.

SLATED FOR DEC. 15TH – JAN. 7TH →
THE US$230 MILLION, 4000 TON TYPE 054A “JIANGKAI II” AREA AIR DEFENSE FRIGATE
Posted on December 12, 2012 by beegeagle

Length: 134m

Beam: 16m.

Draft: 6m

Displacement (Full): 4,000 ton

Propulsion: – MAN Diesel SA 16 PA6V-280 STC diesel engines, 2 shafts – 4,720kW (6,330hp) each.

- 18,880kW (25,320hp) total

Speed: 30+ knots

Range:6,500 nautical miles(18 knots)est.

Crew: 250 est.

Helicopter(s): 1 KA-27 or Harbin Z-9EC

ASW Sensors:

- Fregat-MAE-5 (Top Plate) 3D radar,
120km aircraft, 50km sea-skimming

- MR90 (Front Dome) F-band radars for air defence missiles

- Mineral-ME (Band Stand) radar, ASM
missile control & OTH targeting

- Type 347G I-band radars, two for Type
730 CIWS & 1 or 76mm gun

- TR47C fire-control radar integrated in
Type 730 CIWS

- MR36 (Type 346) surface search radar

- Type MGK-335 fixed sonar, Bull Horn active & Whale Tongue passive

Armament:

- 1 x 32 VLS 9M38/HQ-16 MR AAM

- 8 x YJ-83 (C803) SSM

- 1 x 76mm DP Gun

- 2 x Type 730 30mm CIWS, 5800 rpm,
3000 m

- 6 x 533mm torpedoes

- 2 x Type 87 240mm, 6 tube anti-sub
rocket launchers. 36 rockets 1,200m

The Type 054A is equipped with 32 vertically launched HHQ-16 surface to air missiles for local area defense and 8 C-803 anti-ship cruise missiles.

The Type 054A was designed primarily for air defence role, featuring a medium-range air defence missile system with a
32-cell vertical launch system (VLS) on the bow deck. The frigate is also capable of anti-surface strike with its YJ-83 anti- ship missiles.

The sensors of the Type 054A Jiangkai-II
class are mainly Russian designs,
produced either by licensed co-production or reverse-engineering of the systems obtained along with the Project 956 Sovremenny class missile destroyers.

The air search radar is a Fregat-MAE-5
(NATO reporting name: Top Plate) 3D air
search radar mounted at the top of the
front mast, offering two channels in E-
band. The radar can track up to 40 targets simultaneously, and has a maximum range of 120km to aircraft and 50km to sea-skimming missile. Four MR90 (NATO reporting name: Front
Dome) F-band radars (two on top of the
bridge, two on the roof of the helicopter
hanger) provide guidance for the air
defence missiles.

Originally designed to provide fire-control for the 9M317/SA-N-7 Shtil SAM, each radar can provide two channels to guide two missiles simultaneously. A large round radome installed on top of
the bridge houses the Mineral-ME (NATO
reporting name: Band Stand) radar that
provides anti-ship missile control and
over-the-horizon radar acquisition and
target designation of surface ships.

The ship has three indigenous Type 347G
I-band radars, two of which are integrated with the Type 730 CIWS to
provide fire-control and a standalone
radar is installed on top of the bridge
behind the large round radome provides fire-control for the 76mm main gun. There is also a large round radome
mounted at the top of the rear mast,
possibly housing a MR36 (Type 346?)
surface search radar.

 

[Indus Falcon]

I sincerely hope Pakistan does not spend anymore money on the useless F22-P's and for 60 million more usd get 8 more Type 54-A Stealth Frigates ( we paid 175 million usd for each of those F22-P whereas the much more powerful Type 54-A is $230 million ). F22-P Air Defence System sucks and has no VLS. Type 54-A uses Stealth Technology and has 32 VLS and much stronger Sensors.

SLATED FOR DEC. 15TH – JAN. 7TH →
THE US$230 MILLION, 4000 TON TYPE 054A “JIANGKAI II” AREA AIR DEFENSE FRIGATE
Posted on December 12, 2012 by beegeagle

Length: 134m

Beam: 16m.

Draft: 6m

Displacement (Full): 4,000 ton

Propulsion: – MAN Diesel SA 16 PA6V-280 STC diesel engines, 2 shafts – 4,720kW (6,330hp) each.

- 18,880kW (25,320hp) total

Speed: 30+ knots

Range:6,500 nautical miles(18 knots)est.

Crew: 250 est.

Helicopter(s): 1 KA-27 or Harbin Z-9EC

ASW Sensors:

- Fregat-MAE-5 (Top Plate) 3D radar,
120km aircraft, 50km sea-skimming

- MR90 (Front Dome) F-band radars for air defence missiles

- Mineral-ME (Band Stand) radar, ASM
missile control & OTH targeting

- Type 347G I-band radars, two for Type
730 CIWS & 1 or 76mm gun

- TR47C fire-control radar integrated in
Type 730 CIWS

- MR36 (Type 346) surface search radar

- Type MGK-335 fixed sonar, Bull Horn active & Whale Tongue passive

Armament:

- 1 x 32 VLS 9M38/HQ-16 MR AAM

- 8 x YJ-83 (C803) SSM

- 1 x 76mm DP Gun

- 2 x Type 730 30mm CIWS, 5800 rpm,
3000 m

- 6 x 533mm torpedoes

- 2 x Type 87 240mm, 6 tube anti-sub
rocket launchers. 36 rockets 1,200m

The Type 054A is equipped with 32 vertically launched HHQ-16 surface to air missiles for local area defense and 8 C-803 anti-ship cruise missiles.

The Type 054A was designed primarily for air defence role, featuring a medium-range air defence missile system with a
32-cell vertical launch system (VLS) on the bow deck. The frigate is also capable of anti-surface strike with its YJ-83 anti- ship missiles.

The sensors of the Type 054A Jiangkai-II
class are mainly Russian designs,
produced either by licensed co-production or reverse-engineering of the systems obtained along with the Project 956 Sovremenny class missile destroyers.

The air search radar is a Fregat-MAE-5
(NATO reporting name: Top Plate) 3D air
search radar mounted at the top of the
front mast, offering two channels in E-
band. The radar can track up to 40 targets simultaneously, and has a maximum range of 120km to aircraft and 50km to sea-skimming missile. Four MR90 (NATO reporting name: Front
Dome) F-band radars (two on top of the
bridge, two on the roof of the helicopter
hanger) provide guidance for the air
defence missiles.

Originally designed to provide fire-control for the 9M317/SA-N-7 Shtil SAM, each radar can provide two channels to guide two missiles simultaneously. A large round radome installed on top of
the bridge houses the Mineral-ME (NATO
reporting name: Band Stand) radar that
provides anti-ship missile control and
over-the-horizon radar acquisition and
target designation of surface ships.

The ship has three indigenous Type 347G
I-band radars, two of which are integrated with the Type 730 CIWS to
provide fire-control and a standalone
radar is installed on top of the bridge
behind the large round radome provides fire-control for the 76mm main gun. There is also a large round radome
mounted at the top of the rear mast,
possibly housing a MR36 (Type 346?)
surface search radar.

Well said!
How would you compare the 54B to the 54A, both in terms of price and specs?

 

[Indus Falcon]

4 Type 54B and
2 Type 52D's / Type 55
They would really bring PN up to speed, at the same time maybe we could upgrade the type 22P's with some formidable systems? What do you think?

 

[Pakistanisage]

I think we don't have any information on Type 54B as it is still on Paper.

Even PLAN does not have one Operational yet.

What we do know is that it will be much improved version of existing Type 54A.

Displacement 5000 tons as opposed to 4000 ton 54A

will have C805 as opposed to C803 used in 54A

and many other changes....

 

[Basel]

I sincerely hope Pakistan does not spend anymore money on the useless F22-P's and for 60 million more usd get 8 more Type 54-A Stealth Frigates ( we paid 175 million usd for each of those F22-P whereas the much more powerful Type 54-A is $230 million ). F22-P Air Defence System sucks and has no VLS. Type 54-A uses Stealth Technology and has 32 VLS and much stronger Sensors.

F-22P is not a bad ship but the problem is that PN is facing a huge IN & IAF which not just big in quantity but they are much superior in quality too, therefore F-22P type of ships should come in 3rd or 2nd tier of defense not primary defense ships, they are good for defensive purpose as they have good anti ship and anti sub capabilities but they don't have good air defense and they don't have good endurance at sea.

OHPs must be upgraded to their full potential, specially if we can get at least HAS capable ESSM, RIM-116, Sea RAM, Phalnax-1B or equivalent for air defense with limited anti ship and good anti sub capabilities on them, because they were built for CBG escort ships and they can operate in ocean well, which will allow PN to go after IN in case of any attempt of blockade by them, but still only OHPs will not be enough for the task PN need comprehensive upgrade in surface vessel capabilities.

 

[Penguin]

I sincerely hope Pakistan does not spend anymore money on the useless F22-P's and for 60 million more usd get 8 more Type 54-A Stealth Frigates ( we paid 175 million usd for each of those F22-P whereas the much more powerful Type 54-A is $230 million ). F22-P Air Defence System sucks. It uses FM-90 (HQ-7) Air Defence missile with a range of 15 KM and has no VLS. Type 54-A uses Stealth Technology and has 32 VLS using HQ-16 and much stronger Sensors.

So, F22P suck huh?

How about comparing them to current fleet ships e.g. Type 21s obtained from UK (Tariq class). Oh yes, PN is now much worse off with 4 F22P added (NOT!). All of which incidentally have 8 SSM and SAM and a pair ofr gun CIWS (whereas the Tariq class has a 3/3 split between ASuW version with Harpoon (but no SAM) and AAW version with 5 round LY-60 launcher (but no SSM). LY-60 is 18km range. Not all Tariq class carry Phalanx CIWS.

And if F22P sucks, by extension you are effectively saying PLAN's Jiangwei II (which are inferior to F22P) suck. Wonder why PLAN keeps 14 of them in use, considering the rate at which the Chinese are cranking out new ships....

F22P sucks because is has FM90 and that has a range of 15km. Might I point out Type 056, of which production for PLAN is approaching 20 units, has a FL3000N / HHQ10 (no VLS) with a range of just 9km and no pair of gun CIWS....

Might I point out both Type 056 and F22P use stealth technology. Visibly, this includes shaping of hull an superstructure.

Really, I think the only thing 054A has over F22P is HQ16, a 50km max range variant of Russian Shtil. F22P could accommodate a single Mk41 in place of HQ7 launcher and give the same SAM firepower with ESSM. It is very much value for money.

All of you's with your pipedreams of 054As and fleets .... get real. PN is in no position to acquire such ships anytime soon.

You might be so lucky to get that pair of 052s if and when they pay of (which won't be soon, considering they've been extensively MLU-ed fairly recently)

 

[Pakistanisage]

So, F22P suck huh?

How about comparing them to current fleet ships e.g. Type 21s obtained from UK (Tariq class). Oh yes, PN is now much worse off with 4 F22P added (NOT!). All of which have 8 SSM and SAM and a pair ofr gun CIWS (whereas the Tariq class has a 3/3 split between ASuW version with Harpoon (but no SAM) and AAW version with 5 round LY-60 launcher (but no SSM). LY-60 is 18km range. Not all Tariq class carry Phalanx CIWS.

And if F22P sucks, by extension you are effectively saying PLAN's Jianwei II (which are inferior to F22P) suck. Wonder why PLAN keeps 14 of them in use, considering the rate at which the Chinese are cranking out new ships....

F22P sucks because is has FM90 and that has a range of 15km. Might I point out Type 056, of which production for PLAN is approaching 20 units, has a FL3000N / HHQ10 (no VLS) with a range of just 9km and no pair of gun CIWS....

Might I point out both Type 056 and F22P use stealth technology. Visibly, this includes shaping of hull an superstructure.

Really, I think the only thing 054A has over F22P is HQ16, a 50km max range variant of Russian Shtil. F22P could accommodate a single Mk41 in place of HQ7 launcher and give the same SAM firepower with ESSM. It is very much value for money.

All of you's with your pipedreams of 054As and fleets .... get real. PN is in no position to acquire such ships anytime soon.

You might be so lucky to get that pair of 052s if and when they pay of (which won't be soon, considering they've been extensively MLU-ed fairly recently)

Are you on Drugs ? I said the Air Defence system on F22-P sucks. You took that to mean that F22-P as a whole sucks.

You are not making any Sense , dude.

Then you start comparing F22-P Frigate with Type 56 which is a corvette ?

Then you try to compare F22-P Frigate with Type 21 Tariq class Frigate which are 40 year old Technology.

Then you talk about plan using similar Frigate. Well PLAN has 24 Destroyers and 20 + 54A's in addition to a lot more Surface ships. F22-P are Pakistan's main Surface Ships.

And how do you know what PN has plans for. Are you Privy to their Plans ?

And you call yourself a Think Tank Analyst ?

 

[Penguin]

Are you on Drugs ? I said the Air Defence system on F22-P sucks. You took that to mean that F22-P as a whole sucks.

You are not making any Sense , dude.

Thn you start comparing F22-P Frigate with Type 56 which is a corvette ?

Then you try to compare F22-P Frigate with Type 21 Tariq class Frigate which are 40 year old Technology.

And you call yourself a Think Tank Analyst ?

I am comparing WEAPON SYSTEMS (for AAW) on offer by Chinese and other parties, in case you missed it. Of course I am comparing to Type 21, because - like it of not - F22Ps will be its replacement. I'm not EQUATING them, obviously.

IF FM90 sucks than 14 PLAN ships suck, as to those corvettes which have a 9km system as their main AAW and lack CIWS. You do the math.

And there is Abu Nasar again too, cheering on anyone who will post negative about me while remaining silent himself.

 

[Pakistanisage]

I am comparing WEAPON SYSTEMS (for AAW) on offer by Chinese and other parties, in case you missed it. Of course I am comparing to Type 21, because - like it of not - F22Ps will be its replacement. I'm not EQUATING them, obviously.

All of you's with your pipedreams of 054As and fleets .... get real. PN is in no position to acquire such ships anytime soon.

How the hell do you know what our Navy has Budgeted for.

Do you have inside track on Pakistani Navy Plans ?

Or are you just blowing your top without any Evidence or Facts ?

BTW, Are you Indian ?

You are not displaying your National Flags so I have no idea what your Nationality is ?