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What If 24 Su-35 bought by China are for PAF ? Just my thoughts

I know many will think my conclusion is daring and outrageous but please read through my well thought analysis. From the events to date, you all can slowly see how the events unfold and how are they related one to another especially the date are so close.

First of all, lets look at this event
Pakistan set to sign 40-year lease for Gwadar port with Chinese company: officials - The Express Tribune

President Xi visit Pakistan in april 2015 to sign the mega USD46 billion deal that is one of the largest and most ambition plan for China Pakistan. A plan China hope can boast Pakistan economy while at the same time ,make China less reliance on Strait of Malacca for import of fuel. Despite the massive investment, Pakistan is a sovereign nation and regards to responsible of protecting Gwadar port still lies on Pakistan.

The best way to protect this port is to have an fighter aircraft capable of neutralise coming airthreat from huge Indian Ocean while at the same time capable of striking the enemy at a projected range. These puts Su-27 series aircraft in the foreline. It is an aircraft with exceptional range given its huge size, massive payload of at least 9tons ammunition carries. Most of all, a very agile aircraft despite it huge airframe. The twin engine will also ensure better survival in case one engine breaks down. Su-35 touted the most advance Sukhoi series with air superiority, ground and sea attack is an attractive option for PAF. While we do know China produces the Su-27 series aircraft domestically under J-XX series with license from Russian for 200 airframe. But in terms of license issue interpretation to China and Russian is always an issue for both in the 2000s times. It was finally settle in 2008 when Russian president Dmitry Medvedev visited China and both agree on the issue. China was allowed to continue produce as much J-XX series of Su-27 lineage as she deemed but not allow to export any of this lineage to compete with Russian.
Russia and China Dispute Intellectual Property - Kommersant Moscow
This will means Pakistan is not able to get any of China modify or made Su-27 series aircraft and the only possible way to obtain such heavy weight fighter is to buy from Russian made.


Then we look at another piece of interesting news this September.
Pak-Russia talks on delivery of Su-35, Mi-35s underway: Russian Deputy FM - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
Russian Deputy FM comfirmed interest and talks regard to purchase of SU-35 by PAF although not much detailed is mention due to the sensitivity of selling Russian most advance Su-27 series to PAF against Russian biggest arm buyer ,India. Russian is eager to expand its shrinking aviation export and the fact, IAF is looking more towards the west with purchase of 36 Rafale. Russian needs to look at all potential customers and PAF is definitely one of them. Russian in past has export a number of weapon systems or equipment to PAF like RD-93 engines, Mi-17 and possible Mi-35 gunship with success. RD-93 engine which is critical to JF-17 project is only possible through the blessing of China acting as middle man to shut India complaint of Russia export weapons to Pakistan, India arch rival.

Finally, we look at this new.
China will get first Russian Su-35 fighters in 2016
China after talking about buying Su-35 for almost 5 years finally inked the deal recently and most importantly, the urgent timing of the delivery in 2016 plus a small amount of SU-35 purchase, raise an eyebrow.

Why China purchase only 24 Su-35 since China is such a big and rich country? She definitely needs more than 24 Su-35 if she needs to defend her land and sea. But some critics will argue China purchase a minimum of 24 Su-35 just to get their hands on reverse engineering of critical component like 117S engine. But lets look at some other facts.
国产心脏终于行了:太行发动机一技术让美羡慕 - 中网资讯中心

This is an extract from an interview with Lin zuoming, Chairman of AVIC who comment on WS-10 'Taihang" engine series. He mention WS-10 series engine in the latest version WS-10B has surpassed Russian engine technology in terms of lifespan, performance and reliability and claim the latest version of Taihang engine can produce 140Ktons while Russian 117S is just a slight mere of 142Ktons thrust as compare.
Saturn AL-31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why would China spend so much trouble just to get an almost similar performance and spec engine? Then some critics will argue besides the engine, the other sub systems may interested the Chinese like PESA radar onboard. Lets look at another aircraft currently in development and will enter series soon.

View attachment 273536

You can see the aircraft spotted with WS-10 series engine and a slanted nose cone suggesting AESA radar. China produced J-XX series aircraft are using high level of composite and 3D printing which proves the airframe superior in any aspect compare to Russian Su-35 in terms of structure strength,weight and lifespan.

Chinese Military Aviation: Fighters II

Another aircraft with slanted cone and is due to be in service is the J-10B which comfirms spotted with an AESA radar proves J-11D has the same AESA radar(more powerful due to bigger size)from the same institute.
View attachment 273537

Then this question comes into your mind. Why would China purchase 24 Su-35 when China has better option like J-11D? I think I need not tell you the answer where these 24 Su-35 will go to.

And please do not ask for comfirmation of China purchase 24 Su-35 transfer to PAF. Since this is an under table deal. There will not be any official statement regards the transfer. You will see it when these Su-35 started working on PAF airbase or spotted with PAF ensign. By going these route, Russian can shelve all problem to the Chinese and need no answer to India allegation of export advance weapon system to Pakistan while at the same time opening up another market for its shrinking aviation export and market the Su-35 for more potential customers.

Hi,

Your article misses it by at least 2500 miles-----. The procurement of the SU35 has nothing to do with Pakistan---but has everything to do with china's newly created Island---.

If I am wrong in the near future---I will the first one to apologize.

The recent aggressive posture of the united states navy has china in another major concern---and it is really not ready at this stage to make any no aggressive offensive moves against the U S----.

China had thought that the situation might have diffused a little bit---but then the U S navy escalated it.

The procurement of SU35's is to fill the hole at the top tier of its fighter and air superiority aircraft and fill it fast---because the situation is just a happy itchy trigger finger away from escalating.

But coming to pakistan---for Pakistan----getting the SU35 first is not the solution for Gwadar-----. You have to take care of the problem first----. It will be like putting a bandage on a festering wound without cleaning it up---.

The JH7B is the solution for Gwadar----. You can only stop the enemy from deep strike when it knows that you also have the ability of deep strike back-----.

If hindustan can destroy a chicken sh-it port like Gwadar---then Pakistan should have the ability to smash the mega port of Mumbai-----then we will see who wants to come do battle with us.

So---basically----at this time----SU35 is not the right primary aircraft to be purchased for pakistan-----it will be another blunder----.

And as for China---its issues may escalate faster than it can imagine----. So---china should look into strengthening pakistan's air force further more.
 
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Man. Beast, excellent analysis and well thought-out conclusion. It would be a clever move by Russia if they indeed went ahead to go via China. A move that India can't do jack all about it.

India will just cancel all deals with Russia, civilian and military.
 
India will just cancel all deals with Russia, civilian and military.
Are India cancil the PAK-FA project with Russia ???
India has paid $295 million (Rs 1,785.19 crore) (as total coast share by 50:50 % each India and russia ) for the preliminary design of Indo Russia Joint Venture PAK-FA fighter jet programme (total cost $ 25 billion)
 
true its cheaper than the typhoon but the su-35is too advanced to be sold to pakistan yet. india will not be able to sleep.and that may come with consequences of less orders for weapons in the future for russia. the only jet pakistan can get is more f16s new or old it almost certain and the j10 series which is unlikely as its only good for a stop gap. and thats no good.
So basically Pakistan has been pushed in the corner for whatever reasons.
 
We'll see. :cheers:
what will you see
cancellation of SU-30 MKI parts imports from russia ???
than IAF facing engine failure problem of SU-30 MKI druign air and waiting russian expert for inspction of problem ???
 
Hi,

India cannot----all you major weapons systems are russian---they got you by the ballz---.

It cuts both ways then. If Russia has India by the balls, then India definitely has Russia's, financially speaking. When Russia is in the hunt for every export dollar, do you really think it's going to risk it all for some clever runaround deal to supply Su-35s to Pakistan?

I don't think so.
 
Seems same story like JFT yeah ? dear the dynamics are getting change, these smaller things donot matter when it comes to grand alliances. Russia Doesnt consider India Faithful as India is just lying in US group rather Pakistan China and Russia and Iran seems more powerful and considerable alliance so keep assuming.

you will see with your own eyes when times comes.

Right! The time may come when the sun becomes a red giant or the stars start winking out signalling the end of the universe! :P
 
Do chinese copied defence products give gurantee or warrenty or just use and through type chinese toys :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
what will you see
cancellation of SU-30 MKI parts imports from russia ???
than IAF facing engine failure problem of SU-30 MKI druign air and waiting russian expert for inspction of problem ???
That is something only the Indians on here can answer. Are they just throwing hissy fits like girls or will India actually dump all Russian hardware and turn to Uncle Sam? If latter, It will be a childish mistake to dump Russia over 24 planes. :-)
 
Thread is BS.

If this buy goes through, the planes are for China. But keyboard warriors from the Chinese ministry of truth have to save face as they've been telling for years how Russian tech is inferior to theirs. Sad story eh, boys???
 
And the Chinese will never be able to sell them to Pakistan as Russia will not allow it since the engines are Russian.

End of story!
There was another story too that you guys used to sing about. That story was about the RD-93 engine. Funnily enough it had a completely different ending to the one you guys sang about. Moral of the story? Don't end your story so quickly. :enjoy:
 

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