2 dalit sisters gangraped, bodies found hanging from tree

[Indrani]

madam its good to be an idealist, but its better to keep our feet grounded

I am very grounded, that is why I see the society as it is and avoid getting manipulated.

 

[baajey]

Does not matter. If it is love marriage between 2 individuals of legal age, then there is enough law protection. If people do not mind Punjabi and Tamil getting married, then it wont be many more years before people from different castes but same language and customs marry too. It is just a matter of time.

u got me wrong....
i was asking about which of the two instances wud face more public outrage (that also includes the bride n groom's families) provided that the police protection (we know how effective that is in rural areas) is adequate.

I am very grounded, that is why I see the society as it is and avoid getting manipulated.

maam, its the feet that shud be grounded, not the head. bcoz in that case one might ignore/confuse idealism with reality.

 

[Indrani]

u got me wrong....
i was asking about which of the two instances wud face more public outrage (that also includes the bride n groom's families) provided that the police protection (we know how effective that is in rural areas) is adequate.

I did not get you wrong. I just explained if there is less resistance/outrage by public and family for marriage between a Tamil and a Punjabi, then it is only a matter of time before the more vigorous resistance to intercaste marriage within the same village and community gets reduced too.

maam, its the feet that shud be grounded, not the head. bcoz in that case one might ignore/confuse idealism with reality.

I have both my feet grounded and my head balanced, so do not worry too much about it. I am well aware of the reality of my country and also how it has been misread and mishandled until now and for what profit.

 

[ranjeet]

All crime against anyone, be it men or women needs to be dealt with in accordance with the law and what was happening until now was abdication of duty by our legal system. But that is not why the media is highlighting this issue. Their motive is entirely different from justice.

What you are saying happens in an ideal world but unfortunately we dont live in one. Hindi belt still suffer from casteism. Media is doing what they need to rake in their TRPs but at times they do help in bringing forward such crimes where police doesn't help the victims due to some political or other reasons. Muzzafarnagar riots took place because police couldn't take strict actions against the culprits because a certain group of people were being given political backing. unfortunately the secular media couldn't raise the issue hence the anger kept simmering and it resulted in riots.

 

[baajey]

I did not get you wrong. I just explained if there is less resistance/outrage by public and family for marriage between a Tamil and a Punjabi, then it is only a matter of time before the more vigorous resistance to intercaste marriage within the same village and community gets reduced too.

no ifs, no buts please...and no talking of future (we are bound to realism, remember??)
i m talking today, now.

 

[Indrani]

What you are saying happens in an ideal world but unfortunately we dont live in one. Hindi belt still suffer from casteism. Media is doing what they need to rake in their TRPs but at times they do help in bringing forward such crimes where police doesn't help the victims due to some political or other reasons. Muzzafarnagar riots took place because police couldn't take strict actions against the culprits because a certain group of people were being given political backing. unfortunately the secular media couldn't raise the issue hence the anger kept simmering and it resulted in riots.

What did I say which was undesirable or too idealistic to be ever a reality? Are crime against men less important than crime against women? What about children? Do the police file FIRs and investigate all crimes against men and children and only ignore women? Case in point being Muzzafarnagar riots and the political interference. Which makes it exactly what I said earlier, abdication of duty by all concerned authorities

Casteism is a reality all over the country. For 67 years people have been abusing it and yet the situation is intractable. Should you not wonder that perhaps we are dealing with it the wrong way?

no ifs, no buts please...and no talking of future (we are bound to realism, remember??)
i m talking today, now.

What talking of today now? If someone wants to get married to someone so adamantly, then it should not matter who is outraged. If one has police protection, then after weighing the cost/benefits of taking such a step one should go ahead. Hell I do not like half the marriages that take place among celebrities and they prove me right by getting divorce after a couple of years anyway, but they do not pay heed to my likes or dislikes and go ahead with their marriages anyway.

 

[ranjeet]

What did I say which was undesirable or too idealistic to be ever a reality? Are crime against men less important than crime against women? What about children? Do the police file FIRs and investigate all crimes against men and children and only ignore women? Case in point being Muzzafarnagar riots and the political interference. Which makes it exactly what I said earlier, abdication of duty by all concerned authorities

Casteism is a reality all over the country. For 67 years people have been abusing it and yet the situation is intractable. Should you not wonder that perhaps we are dealing with it the wrong way?

police has also been abusing the power, yet the situation is intractable. The only point I am raising here is the inaction of the police but once this case was brought to the limelight by media police was forced to take some action. If police does what it is suppose to do without any bias there would be no reason for media to highlight the Dalit Plight.
I understand the point you are making here and no one would be more happy than me if it happens, but until it happens Police need the required danda to make them work.

 

[Indrani]

police has also been abusing the power, yet the situation is intractable. The only point I am raising here is the inaction of the police but once this case was brought to the limelight by media police was forced to take some action. If police does what it is suppose to do without any bias there would be no reason for media to highlight the Dalit Plight.
I understand the point you are making here and no one would be more happy than me if it happens, but until it happens Police need the required danda to make them work.

Yeah, so the problem is not just bias against Dalits and Women, but just about abuse of power and dereliction of duty by the police, the politicos, the courts. A systemic failure.

Coming to the media and highlighting of this case. While I am happy that the media spotlight will help provide justice to the victims, I am more concerned about the poison the media is spreading in the society by sowing hatred against one or other communities and pitting them against each other. Mind you, they do it only with the Hindu communities and not if the perpetrators from the secular community. So this is not just and unbiased reporting just for sake of TRPs, it is more sinister than that. What they want to do is sharpen and deepen the caste lines, divide the society, now moreso because they feel betrayed by the Dalit community which voted for NaMo in LS elections.

I believe the police will change in Uttar Pradesh with the winds of change blowing all over India with the change in govt, but Indian media is sold out.

@ranjeet If you have time, go through these videos. You will have an entirely different view about our country and caste system.

 

[ranjeet]

Yeah, so the problem is not just bias against Dalits and Women, but just about abuse of power and dereliction of duty by the police, the politicos, the courts. A systemic failure.

Coming to the media and highlighting of this case. While I am happy that the media spotlight will help provide justice to the victims, I am more concerned about the poison the media is spreading in the society by sowing hatred against one or other communities and pitting them against each other. Mind you, they do it only with the Hindu communities and not if the perpetrators from the secular community. So this is not just and unbiased reporting just for sake of TRPs, it is more sinister than that. What they want to do is sharpen and deepen the caste lines, divide the society, now moreso because they feel betrayed by the Dalit community which voted for NaMo in LS elections.

I believe the police will change in Uttar Pradesh with the winds of change blowing all over India with the change in govt, but Indian media is sold out.

@ranjeet If you have time, go through these videos. You will have an entirely different view about our country and caste system.

Totally agree with your views about media, they are profit driven. Even if someone tried to present news for what it is, would be labeled rightists, leftist or whatever name depending on the group they irk. It was demonstrated while covering the muzzafarnagar riots.
Unfortunately the Majority Hindus have to bear the burden to maintain secularism. Although in this election we saw the caste barrier falling and I hope it's not just one time thing. Being said that there are some genuine grievances of the SC/STs and BJP must address that in order to breach and demolish this barrier forever.

 

[Indrani]

Totally agree with your views about media, they are profit driven. Even if someone tried to present news for what it is, would be labeled rightists, leftist or whatever name depending on the group they irk. It was demonstrated while covering the muzzafarnagar riots.
Unfortunately the Majority Hindus have to bear the burden to maintain secularism. Although in this election we saw the caste barrier falling and I hope it's not just one time thing. Being said that there are some genuine grievances of the SC/STs and BJP must address that in order to breach and demolish this barrier forever.

I don't think the English media is so much profit driven. NDTV has been in the red for years and years, and they have steadily lost viewership, but they continue with their leftist tirade. Likewise most other channels. It helped them of course that the congress govt helped them out with Bharat Nirman largess and many such ads and patronage. Their agenda is much more than TRPs and profit.

 

[ranjeet]

I don't think the English media is so much profit driven. NDTV has been in the red for years and years, and they have steadily lost viewership, but they continue with their leftist tirade. Likewise most other channels. It helped them of course that the congress govt helped them out with Bharat Nirman largess and many such ads and patronage. Their agenda is much more than TRPs and profit.

Well we can't blame the political opponents in using whatever means they can use, BJP should rather focus on good governance and better performance. Let the work speak for itself and keep working hard to bridge the gap between castes and religions. If this happens no amount of propaganda would work no matter how much spin the news traders put on things.

 

[Indrani]

Well we can't blame the political opponents in using whatever means they can use, BJP should rather focus on good governance and better performance. Let the work speak for itself and keep working hard to bridge the gap between castes and religions. If this happens no amount of propaganda would work no matter how much spin the news traders put on things.

We lost 67 years due to such manipulation. Much of our country looks no better than vast slums because we were ignorant of these puppeteers and trusted them implicitly. Do not want our people to be manipulated even for a second by these guys anymore, hence I am very wary about the media.

I think BJP has gotten off to a terrific start. Corruption in India was top down. Now that the top is super clean, I think India would clean up rather soon.

 

[VCheng]

NVM you shyed away from understanding the context. one law is already repealed.




neither your blames bother us much if your double standard does not bother you then your views are flawed indeed.

i just read another of your comment on Indian media freedom thread where you said freedom is good but there must be some check lolzzzzz while on same topic you want all out unchecked one for Pakistan.

Please explain the context if I missed it. What law is being repealed?

My statement on media freedoms is not about needing a "check" and is equally applicable to both India and Pakistan. That is your own twisted thinking. This is my statement:

Freedom of the Press is a great thing, but there must be some form of oversight to ensure that there are redress/grievance mechanisms available to ensure fairness for all.

There is no "check" here. There should be a place for people to make complaints to address their grievances. Please understand the difference, but it may be that you are simply incapable of doing so.
==============================================

Back to the topic: Crimes against women need a sea change in social values if they are to be reduced.

 

[halupridol]

 

[JonAsad]

I am but a mirror, people only see the reflected reality in me.

On topic, much of the crime against women in South Asia is related to poor socioeconomic conditions.

U.S. STATISTICS

Fact #1: Over 22 million women in the United States have been raped in their lifetime.(National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)

Fact #2: 18.3% of women in the United States have survived a completed or attempted rape. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)

Fact #3: Of the 18.3% of women who have survived rape or attempted rape, 12.3% were younger than age 12 when they were first raped, and 29.9% were between the ages of 11 and 17. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)

Fact #4: Every 90 seconds, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted.(Calculation based on 2012 National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice)

Fact #5: One out of every five American women has been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime. (The National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)Fact #6: Approximately 1,270,000 women are raped each year. Another 6,646,000 are victims of other sexual crime, including sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, or unwanted sexual experiences. (Department of Justice 2010).

Fact #7: 15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12; 29% are age 12-17; 44% are under age 18; 80% are under age 30; ages 12-34 are the highest risk years. (Department of Justice 2010)

Fact #8: Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault. (Department of Justice 2010)

Fact #9: Most female victims are raped before the age of 25, and almost half of female victims are under the age of 18. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010). Fact #10: More than 75% of female victims were raped or sexually assaulted before age 25. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010). .

Fact #11: In 2006, 78,000 children were sexually abused. (Child Maltreatment 2006.) Because majority of cases are not reported, it is estimated that the real number could be anywhere from 260,000-650,000 a year. (Finklehor 2008). Fact #12: Almost two-thirds of all rapes are committed by someone who is known to the victim. 73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger (— 48% of perpetrators were a friend or acquaintance of the victim, 17% were an intimate and 8% were another relative.) (National Crime Victimization Survey 2010)

Fact #13: 63.84% of women who reported being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked since age 18 were victimized by a current or former husband, cohabiting partner, boyfriend, or date. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)

Fact #14: Of female rape or sexual assault victims in 2010, 25 percent were assaulted by a stranger, 48 percent by friends or acquaintances, and 17 percent were intimate partners. (National Crime Victimization Survey 2010) Fact #15: Almost 10% of high school students are victims of dating violence each year. (Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance 2009).

Fact #16: According to the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance Survey (YRBSS), a national survey of high school students, 8.0% of students had been forced to have sexual intercourse when they did not want to. Female students (11.8%) were significantly more likely than male students (4.5%) to have been forced to have sexual intercourse. Overall, black students (17.1%) were significantly more likely than white students (15.2%) to have been forced to have sexual intercourse (CDC 2012).

Fact #17: A study reported in the New York Times suggests that one in five adolescent girls become the victims of physical or sexual violence, or both, in a dating relationship. (New York Times 8/01/01)

Fact #18: 93% of juvenile sexual assault victims know their attacker. 34.2% of attackers were family members and 58.7 were acquaintances. (U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics. Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement 2000.)

Fact #19: The Campus Sexual Assault Study estimated that between 1 in 4 and 1 in 5 college women experience completed or attempted rape during their college years (National Institute of Justice 2007).

Fact #21: About one-third of female murder victims ages 12 or older are killed by an intimate partner. (Department of Justice 2007)

Fact #22: A University of Pennsylvania research study found that domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to low-income, inner-city Philadelphia women between the ages of 15 to 44 - more common than automobile accidents, mugging and rapes combined. In this study domestic violence included injuries caused by street crime.

Fact #23: The FBI estimates that only 46% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

Fact #24: Less than half of domestic violence incidents are reported to police. African-American women are more likely than others to report their victimization to police Lawrence A. Greenfeld et al. (1998). (Violence by Intimates: Analysis of Data on Crimes by Current or Former Spouses, Boyfriends, and Girlfriends. Bureau of Justice Statistics Factbook. Washington DC: U.S. Department of Justice. NCJ #167237. Available from National Criminal Justice Reference Service.)

Fact #25: Sexual violence and gender based violence is associated with a host of short- and long-term problems, including physical injury and illness, psychological symptoms, economic costs, and death (Lifetime Prevalence of Gender-Based Violence in Women and the Relationship with Mental Disorders and Psychosocial Function, Journal of American Medical Association 2011).

Fact #26: Rape victims often experience anxiety, guilt, nervousness, phobias, substance abuse, sleep disturbances, depression, alienation, sexual dysfunction, and aggression. They often distrust others and replay the assault in their minds, and they are at increased risk of future victimization (DeLahunta 1997).

Fact #27: Victims of sexual assault are 3 times more likely to suffer from depression, 6 times more likley to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, 14 times more likely to abuse alcohol, 26 times more likely to abuse drugs, and 4 times more likely to contemplate suicide. (World Health Organization 2003)

Fact #28: Sexual violence victims exhibit a variety of psychological symptoms that are similar to those of victims of other types of trauma, such as war and natural disaster (National Research Council 1996). A number of long-lasting symptoms and illnesses have been associated with sexual victimization including chronic pelvic pain; premenstrual syndrome; gastrointestinal disorders; and a variety of chronic pain disorders, including headache, back pain, and facial pain (Koss 1992).Between 4% and 30% of rape victims contract sexually transmitted diseases as a result of the victimization (Resnick 1997).

Fact #29: The costs of intimate partner violence against women exceed an estimated $5.8 billion. These costs include nearly $4.1 billion in the direct costs of medical care and mental health care and nearly $1.8 billion in the indirect costs of lost productivity and present value of lifetime earnings. (Costs of Intimate Partner Violence Against Women in the United States, Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Atlanta, Georgia, March 2003).

Fact #30 Intimate partner violence causes U.S. women to lose about $727 million in wages from their approximately 8 million days of missed work. (National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, 2003).

Fact #31: It is estimated that 43% of lesbian and bisexual women and 30% of gay and bisexual men have experienced at least one form of sexual assault during their lifetimes. (Rothman 2011)



Fact #32: About 67.9% of rape victims are white; 11.9% are black; 14% are hispanic and 6% are of other races. (National Crime Victimization Survey, Department of Justice 2010).

Fact #33: About half of all rape victims are in the lowest third of income distribution; half are in the upper two-thirds. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.)

Fact #34 Women who resided in households that earned less than $10,000 annually are four times more likely to experience violence than women in wealthier households (Browne, Salomon, & Bassuk 1999)

Fact #35: An estimated 17,500 women and children are trafficked into the United States annually for sexual exploitation or forced labor. (U.S. Department of State Trafficking in Persons Report 2012).

Fact #36: Offenders have been reported to be armed with a gun, knife or other weapon in 11 percent of rape or sexual assault victimizations. (Criminal Victimization, Bureau of Justice, 2010)

Fact #37: Factoring in unreported rapes, about 6% of rapists will ever spend a day in jail. 15 out of 16 will walk free. (Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN) calculation based on US Department of Justice 2010 Statistics)

Fact #38: Boys who witness their fathers' violence are 10 times more likely to engage in spouse abuse in later adulthood than boys from non-violent homes. (Family Violence Interventions for the Justice System, 1993)

You think you a are part of a exemplary model society-
shut up man you talk too much bullsh1t-