1971 PAF Fighter Pilots, 14 Squadron, Dacca, "Where are they now?"

[shr_bwp]

Air Cdre. Inam ul Haq - Resides in Rawalpindi; retd as Air Mshl
Wng. Cmdr. Afzal Choudhury - Resides in Lahore
Wng Cmdr. S M Ahmad - Shaheed
S/ L Javed Afzaal - Resides in Lahore; flew with PIA for some years
F/L Saeed Afzal - Shaheed
F/O Shams ul Haq - left air force in 1976 and now retired living in Edmund, Oklahoma
F/L Schames ul Haq - Residing in Karachi, Retired Grp Cpt
F/O Shamshad - Recently died in Dubai?
F/ L PM Qureshi - Residing in Islamabad, Retired AM COAS
F/L Khalil Ahmad - Residing in Islamabad, Retired Pakistan Customs
F/O Sajjad Noor - Residing in Rawalpindi
Sqn. Ldr. Dilawar Hussain - Residing in Islamabad, AM, Kamra "Boss"
Flt Lt Rasheedi - Residing in Dubai, flying for a pvt airline
Air Cdre Mahmud Gul - Residing in Islamabad
F/L Ata - Retired AVM, living in Karachi
F/L Zaidi - UNKNOWN
F/O (?) Shams - Nicknamed "Chitta" (White) to differentiate from the other two Shams' in Dacca, Left Air Force is in Saudi Arabia flying for a private airline.

May God bless these pilots and their families - their true reward is with God, for no Man can reward a warrior.

 

[chindit]

Air Cdre. Inam ul Haq - Resides in Rawalpindi; retd as Air Mshl
Wng. Cmdr. Afzal Choudhury - Resides in Lahore
Wng Cmdr. S M Ahmad - Shaheed
S/ L Javed Afzaal - Resides in Lahore; flew with PIA for some years
F/L Saeed Afzal - Shaheed
F/O Shams ul Haq - left air force in 1976 and now retired living in Edmund, Oklahoma
F/L Schames ul Haq - Residing in Karachi, Retired Grp Cpt
F/O Shamshad - Recently died in Dubai?
F/ L PM Qureshi - Residing in Islamabad, Retired AM COAS
F/L Khalil Ahmad - Residing in Islamabad, Retired Pakistan Customs
F/O Sajjad Noor - Residing in Rawalpindi
Sqn. Ldr. Dilawar Hussain - Residing in Islamabad, AM, Kamra "Boss"
Flt Lt Rasheedi - Residing in Dubai, flying for a pvt airline
Air Cdre Mahmud Gul - Residing in Islamabad
F/L Ata - Retired AVM, living in Karachi
F/L Zaidi - UNKNOWN
F/O (?) Shams - Nicknamed "Chitta" (White) to differentiate from the other two Shams' in Dacca, Left Air Force is in Saudi Arabia flying for a private airline.

May God bless these pilots and their families - there true reward is with God, for no Man can reward a warrior.

as per air commodore sajjad haider , Wng. Cmdr. Afzal Choudhury came to him after the war was over and requested to be taken off command of the squadron. the rest of the pilots loathed him for some false claims. And he did not really fly much in combat on the first day where others were putting a good effort.. So the pilots were giving him a really hard time. Haider posted out chaudarhy and got a new CO for them.

I got the impression it was Squad Ldr Dilawar Hussain who was running the entire show and he should have got the credit.but did not

 

[shr_bwp]

I still find it an amazing coincidence that there were THREE active fighter pilots named Shams (or a slight variation thereof) in the same squadron at the same time. Two of them were more or less completely the same name and pronounced the same way Schames-ul-haq and Shams-ul-haq (nicknamed "Kaala").

 

[chindit]

I want to know if any of these pilots flew combat sorties on the western front after they escaped to western pakistan.

 

[ejaz007]

I want to know if any of these pilots flew combat sorties on the western front after they escaped to western pakistan.

What do you mean escaped to Pakistan?

If you would have read the first post you would have noticed that some of them retired a lot later than 1971 so they flew afetr 1971 for sure. Combat sorties are a different scenario considering that till the arrivals of Soviets in Afghanistan PAF did not need combat sorties.

 

[chindit]

What do you mean escaped to Pakistan?

If you would have read the first post you would have noticed that some of them retired a lot later than 1971 so they flew afetr 1971 for sure. Combat sorties are a different scenario considering that till the arrivals of Soviets in Afghanistan PAF did not need combat sorties.

I meant during the war. They flew out to Burma during the war didnt they? How many of them reached west pakistan to take part in the fighting on the western front before the war ended?

 

[ejaz007]

Considering that there were 16 sabres against some 200 IAF fighters they fought extremely well almost till the end. Then they destroyed the remaining 11 and flew out to Burma.

Chindit's post gives the impression that they ran away from the job which is not the fact. It was a normal practice that our personnel used to go the East Pakistan via Burma since India did not allow the use of her air space.

If one looks at the performance of PAF personnel stationed in East Pakistan and the odds they faced while confronting IAF purely from military point of view then he or she shall admit that their performance was extra ordinary.

 

[chindit]

Then they destroyed the remaining 11 and flew out to Burma. .

Not really. BAF had five to six of these Sabres flying. this has been covered very well.

you make a lot of assumptions but didnt answer my question. did they fly any sorties in the west before the war was over?

 

[shr_bwp]

A) I am not sure why it is important if they flew combat out of WP after leaving EP Dec 6. Nonetheless, without any corroborating information let us speculate shall we?:

- they left on Dec. 6 and arrived in Burma;
- speculatively speaking, they could have arrived in WP as early as on Dec 8th;
- the war ended on Dec 13;

Is it possible that they were assigned to a new squadron and moved into combat? Yes. In all likelihood, though, speaking speculatively, probably NOT.

B) Now that you have the speculation going, tell me Chindit, what else would you like to know?

C) The Sabres were disabled by firing gunshots into the airframes and engines - there was enough left over to be scavenged and a few (3-5) were flyable for a short while. The question is who flew them? IAF pilots or PAF trained BDAF pilots?

D) We do not have any poster from BD/BDAF who can fill us in: but frankly, I DO NOT CARE who flew what after the war was over. These were 1950 aircraft and were good flying platform but there effective combat lives were long over - only the PAF flew them in combat and with success.

E) As we all know, PAF vintage F-6s (MiG-19) were, in the 1980's gifted to our "Bangladeshi Brethren". The PAF played an important "aircraft supplier" role to the BDAF !!!!!! Irony, anyone?

Now let's drop the matter, salute our PAF Dacca combatants, once more, AND MOVE ON. Comprende, kemo sabe? (a Spanish expression)

 

[Windjammer]

Not really. BAF had five to six of these Sabres flying. this has been covered very well.

you make a lot of assumptions but didnt answer my question. did they fly any sorties in the west before the war was over?

The eleven remaining Sabres were disabled rather than destroyed.

Post war history indeed points to the fact that after withdrawing from East Pakistan, the 14 Squadron pilots carried out duties in the Western Sector. The Squadron was later equipped with the F-6s.

 

[chindit]

A) I am not sure why it is important if they flew combat out of WP after leaving EP Dec 6. Nonetheless, without any corroborating information let us speculate shall we?:

- they left on Dec. 6 and arrived in Burma;
- speculatively speaking, they could have arrived in WP as early as on Dec 8th;
- the war ended on Dec 13;

Is it possible that they were assigned to a new squadron and moved into combat? Yes. In all likelihood, though, speaking speculatively, probably NOT.

B) Now that you have the speculation going, tell me Chindit, what else would you like to know?

dude, thats what I wanted to know. but still havent got a concrete answer . (you are "speaking speculatively")

What I wanted to know (to better my historical knowledge) is

1. did they fly any sorties, missions in the western sector before Dec 17 (which was the official end of war on the Western front).

2. does the 14 sqn history mention anything on when they returned to the western pakistan?

(windjammer seems to have the book so he mgiht help)

 

[shr_bwp]

Chindit, my friend, I still DO NOT understand why you need to know this?

It took me months of digging around to come up with this list...if you can share the reason for this interest and it is plausible, I would be happy to dig around for you....after all that is why we are here on this forum: to exchange information on what interests us. I just need to know why I would go off on another fishing expedition......

 

[chindit]

I still DO NOT understand why you need to know this?

It took me months of digging around to come up with this list...if you can share the reason for this interest and it is plausible, I would be happy to dig around for you....after all that is why we are here on this forum: to exchange information on what interests us. I just need to know why I would go off on another fishing expedition......:cheers:

thanks but actually dont bother. I got the answer from sajjad haider himself. He says the pilots returned to the west after the war. so they were in burma till the war ended. did not fly any sorties in the west.

I guess now I have everything i needed to know

 

[Windjammer]

Pilots from No. 14 Squadron based in East Pakistan discussing a training mission sortie - circa 1964.

 

[chindit]

Here is the story on how the Chadhary of no.14 tried to claim credit that was not due -including the so called gnat shooting.

His own pilots wanted him court-martialled!