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16th December 1971: From East Pakistan to Bangladesh

What do you believe was the true extent of the rape? And who was more involved, the PA or razakars?



I love your posts. I have been reading up abt this '71 debacle for quite a bit and I have been asking Bengali friends and reading books about the role of secularists, Hindus and communists in propagating hatred between the Muslims of both wings of Pakistan.Because in Pakistani textbooks there is a great deal of blame laid on the Hindu professors in East Pakistan and I want know if the blame is historically accurate or not. How much truth and how much fiction do you believe is in that charge about Hindu professors and teachers brainwashing Muslims in East Pakistan?

1.Rape is most unfortunately an inevitable collateral of warfare. Perhaps German women more than any in history suffered rape by the Red Army soldiers. However, civilized societies generally do not like to remember this or keep discussing this. In BD the Indian lobby keeps the nation reminding this and other atrocities to keep BD frozen in 1971 and snap Bengali Muslims umbilical chord with the Ummah.
2. No military commander would allow rapes by his soldiers. Discipline, command channel and finally the will / ability to fight would be adversely affected. However, exercise of command and maintaining discipline becomes casualty when troops are scattered all over in isolated locations under junior leaders. The other case is that of EPCAF and W Pak Police. Obviously they cared less for discipline or the job at hand.
3. Razakars themselves were not above rapes. In fact the famous pictures of Kader Siddiqui bayoneting Razakars were Bihari Razakars apprehended raping Bihari women.
4. But the rapes could most be blamed on Peace Committee members. They would themselves rape local Hindu girls and take them often to local army / EPCAF commander to earn favor.
5. We must remember Eastern Command in 1971 was commanded by an animal who himself would devote more time in womanizing than the conduct of war. He would often speak out in favor of rapes during meetings / visits. And all were operating under a scoundrel called Yahya whose days and nights were spent in drinking and womanizing when his armed forces were fighting a war. And didn't he call himself the Sadr of an Islamic Republic?
 
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What do you believe was the true extent of the rape? And who was more involved, the PA or razakars?



I love your posts. I have been reading up abt this '71 debacle for quite a bit and I have been asking Bengali friends and reading books about the role of secularists, Hindus and communists in propagating hatred between the Muslims of both wings of Pakistan.Because in Pakistani textbooks there is a great deal of blame laid on the Hindu professors in East Pakistan and I want know if the blame is historically accurate or not. How much truth and how much fiction do you believe is in that charge about Hindu professors and teachers brainwashing Muslims in East Pakistan?

@ One thing you have to realize that Bengal came under British subjugation just after the Battle of Pallassy in 1757 and since than Calcatta (Bengal) was the capital city of British India till 1911. So, the Bengalise specially the Hindus were politically were much more matured than other people of India specially the Punjab and NWFP. As because, these areas came under British subjugation much later (1846), by this time the people of Eastern Region became more fast and westernize.

@ Once suddenly, in early thirties Jinnah gave his famous "Two Nation Theory ", it was quickly accepted by the Bengali Muslims and thus Pakistan was created. This was not at all accepted by the Bengali Babu's(Hindus). However, the low caste Hindus of East Bengal supported the cause of Pakistan and during that period all reserve 5 seats of Tafshery Federation (an Hindu low caste Political Party) joined in favour of Pakistan. But after the creation of Pakistan soon majority of them fled to India. During the partition near about 50 lacs of Hindus migrated to India. Some 23 lacs of Behares including other non-Bengalise came from India. Near about 25 to 30 lacs of Bengali Muslims came from West Bengal, Assam & Tripura.

@ Now, answer to your question regarding the role of Hindu Teachers, wait a bit, let me think ? First, let me tell you a story which I heard from my father and grand father. My grand father was a minor pass (Class-V) and he was a "Munshi" means he used to lead the "Jumma" prayer. He used to work with one 'Marwari" and was a cashier there. He used to do Congress Party. My father used to read in class nine and do the student politics of Muslim Leaque and busy in "Nara-i-Takbir, Allah Ho Akbar, Pakistan Zindabad, Larke Lenge Pakistan". My father used to wear a simple Pajama and shirt and every day goes to school with some books in one hand. During those days before partition (1946), in our Thana, the Dargo Babu, was a Hindu, Post Master was a Hindu, School Master was Hindu, Station Master was Hindu and the civil administration was also Hindu and so on. The local Zaminders were also Hindu. One day, my father was going to school at around 9 PM. On the way one respectable person named Shotish Babu was seating in a chair and gossiping with others. Then suddenly by seeing my father he called him and said, " ei khoka tumar nam ki ? " My father replied quickly, " Ji agge, Mohd Abdul Latif. "Na na tumar nam Sri Mohd Abdul Latif ", " Ki nam tumar, je agge Sri ----". " Tumi kothai puro ? Ji ei high school le, class ninee ". Then he ordered my father to go to meet the office clerk and amend the name pre-fixing Sri. In the next morning, the master called Sri Mofd Abdul Latif, my father replied, "agge hajir sir ". Once, my father was narrating that before the election date of 1946, as he was involved in Muslim student politics he was forcefully transferred to another school. On the election day inside the election both there were two tables. One at the centre where a big ballot box was placed written in English & Bengali. " Shommilitu Hindu Musalmander jonno" means "For joint Hindu Muslim " and at the corner table another small ballot box was placed and written on it, " shudhu mattro musalmander jonno" means "Only for Muslims".
After the election result most of the Hindus fled away and it was difficult to run the administration.

@ Even after Hindus, migrated to India still many teachers remained and they played a vital in political motivation. In those day most of educated Hindus used to do Communist Party and Congress Party. Once Pakistan was created the members of Muslim Leaque were too busy to celebrate the achievement of Pakistan but bulk of the Hindus both from East & West Bengal were indulged in conspiracy which members of ML never realize. In 1949, "Muslim Awami Leaque" was created. Soon majority of Hindus specially the members of Communist Party and Congress joined Awami Leaque and delete the name "Muslim" and it renamed as "Awami Leaque".

@ Another problem was many MP's of Muslim Leaque came to East Bengal but they did not had own constituency in East Bengal so, soon they were rooted out from politics. Now, the Awami Leaquer in one hand used to get lot of money from India and at the same the elite Business Class (22 rich family of Pakistan) used to give huge amount of money to Awami Leaque including Sk Mujib with the hope of ethnic protection. Sk Mujib himself was a CEO of one Insurance Company of some Haroon(one of the rich family). Sk Mujib used to seat in that Insurance Company and do politics. The same building/office Awami Leaque is still holding and it is the head office of Awami Leaque.

@ " Bhai oshwakt tu brainwash sab ka ho gia tha ! Kia Pakistan ke logo ka brain wash nahi howa tha ? Pakistan tu suraf Kashmir ka pagal tha ? Pakistan ki har tagat Kashmir ke lia kharach kia gia tha, magar hakikat me kia mila ????"
 
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"Main iss haramzada ko Shakarparian Pahari par fansi du'nga."
- Gen Ziaul Huq
ZAB was hanged for his '71 role - not for assassinating Kasuri.


===================

Fols from Gen Afzal Muzzafar ex Corps Comd n QMG.

UK through the British Council is making a mockery of Pakistan.
I have got it verified today and disgustingly it is true.
It is amazing that the British Council's prescribed and printed curriculum for 'O/A' levels has in history part on Pakistan reflect that Pakistan has lost 65 & 71 Wars. This has not been either noticed or glossed over by everybody in Pakistan. I am attaching the details below.


This is for O level Pakistan. The books are written by British writers these state that Pakistan lost these two wars.
It is indeed a matter of great concern that we are accepting all the above British sponsored humiliation and educating out future generations with utter disregard towards our country.


Whereas, we could not achieve our objectives in 1965 War, but we were able to give a sound beating to the Indians. 1971 War I consider that ZA Bhutto was instrumental - when he tore the Poland Resolution which had already been agreed by the Indians through the offices of UN.I know about this fact because Gen Rao Farman Ali my father in law had drafted and got its approval from the Indian side while being Advisor to Governor of East Pakistan. The resolution stated "Immediate cease fire, withdrawal of forces to the international borders and handing over of power to the elected reps ie Mujeeb ur Rehman".This did not suit Mr ZA Bhutto and tore the said resolution- to the ultimate disgrace and humiliation of the Armed Forces of Pakistan. The saga did not end there, he ZAB then requested Indira Ghandhi to keep the prisoners for 2.5 years, so that he can prepare grounds through further humiliation of Armed Forces in this part of Pakistan; which he mercilessly launched/executed and achieved his mission. The POWs had by then also lost the steam to raise the question of fiasco of Poland Resolution.


Look at the TOR's given to Hamood ur Rehman commission - "Determine the Causes of Military defeat in Erstwhile East Pakistan; instead of "Determine the causes of fall of East Pakistan". His ZAB's treacherous role goes back in Aug 1965 briefing in Ayub Hall. ZAB had very recently come back from a visit of China. During the discussions, int reports suggested that India was likely to attk on the main borders - especially Lahore and Sialkot. FM Ayub asked ZAB that what have our friends (China) told you. His answer was that the our friends have assured me that India is not likely to attk Pakistan and if the do we will reciprocate by attk India. This WAS A TOTAL AND BLATANT LIE MADE BY ZAB. As after the 1965 War when our Air & Naval Chiefs visited China, and made a remark that Indian attk was a complete surprise to us; the Chinese Officials were completely confused with this remark. They said that in Aug 65 we had categorically told your FM ZAB, that our int reports clearly suggest that India is likely to attk Pakistan in 1st/2nd week of Sep 65; in case they do we (China) would not be able to help you through physical action as we already have had a war with India in 1962.

Foregoing in view, I would request the auths concerned to undertake immediate and effective appropriate steps, to get this very serious issue, which undermines Pakistan in the minds of our children is redressed.
The books written by British writers state that 65 war was fought over Kashmir. Operation Gibraltar was unsuccessful. We fought for 17 days. Both parties wanted to cease fire. US embargo on Pakistan hurt us more. The Tashkent declaration made all parties return all won land. It is taught with these facts. At the end of the day whatever we had won, we lost it on the bargaining table.


Who won in 1971? We didn't win in 1965 either realistically, though successfully defended Lahore and Sialkot.
You can change the grades of these enemies of Pakistan. But ZAB humiliated Ayub derailed his economic reforms and sat on the disintegration of Pakistan. But Zia destroyed the entire fiber of this country as a nation. The seed he has sworn we shall continue to reap for decades to come. Any way it's history that we have lived to see. Let's see the lessons we have learnt.

------
PA Ord Forum
 
"Main iss haramzada ko Shakarparian Pahari par fansi du'nga."
- Gen Ziaul Huq
ZAB was hanged for his '71 role - not for assassinating Kasuri.


===================

Fols from Gen Afzal Muzzafar ex Corps Comd n QMG.

UK through the British Council is making a mockery of Pakistan.
I have got it verified today and disgustingly it is true.
It is amazing that the British Council's prescribed and printed curriculum for 'O/A' levels has in history part on Pakistan reflect that Pakistan has lost 65 & 71 Wars. This has not been either noticed or glossed over by everybody in Pakistan. I am attaching the details below.


This is for O level Pakistan. The books are written by British writers these state that Pakistan lost these two wars.
It is indeed a matter of great concern that we are accepting all the above British sponsored humiliation and educating out future generations with utter disregard towards our country.


Whereas, we could not achieve our objectives in 1965 War, but we were able to give a sound beating to the Indians. 1971 War I consider that ZA Bhutto was instrumental - when he tore the Poland Resolution which had already been agreed by the Indians through the offices of UN.I know about this fact because Gen Rao Farman Ali my father in law had drafted and got its approval from the Indian side while being Advisor to Governor of East Pakistan. The resolution stated "Immediate cease fire, withdrawal of forces to the international borders and handing over of power to the elected reps ie Mujeeb ur Rehman".This did not suit Mr ZA Bhutto and tore the said resolution- to the ultimate disgrace and humiliation of the Armed Forces of Pakistan. The saga did not end there, he ZAB then requested Indira Ghandhi to keep the prisoners for 2.5 years, so that he can prepare grounds through further humiliation of Armed Forces in this part of Pakistan; which he mercilessly launched/executed and achieved his mission. The POWs had by then also lost the steam to raise the question of fiasco of Poland Resolution.


Look at the TOR's given to Hamood ur Rehman commission - "Determine the Causes of Military defeat in Erstwhile East Pakistan; instead of "Determine the causes of fall of East Pakistan". His ZAB's treacherous role goes back in Aug 1965 briefing in Ayub Hall. ZAB had very recently come back from a visit of China. During the discussions, int reports suggested that India was likely to attk on the main borders - especially Lahore and Sialkot. FM Ayub asked ZAB that what have our friends (China) told you. His answer was that the our friends have assured me that India is not likely to attk Pakistan and if the do we will reciprocate by attk India. This WAS A TOTAL AND BLATANT LIE MADE BY ZAB. As after the 1965 War when our Air & Naval Chiefs visited China, and made a remark that Indian attk was a complete surprise to us; the Chinese Officials were completely confused with this remark. They said that in Aug 65 we had categorically told your FM ZAB, that our int reports clearly suggest that India is likely to attk Pakistan in 1st/2nd week of Sep 65; in case they do we (China) would not be able to help you through physical action as we already have had a war with India in 1962.

Foregoing in view, I would request the auths concerned to undertake immediate and effective appropriate steps, to get this very serious issue, which undermines Pakistan in the minds of our children is redressed.
The books written by British writers state that 65 war was fought over Kashmir. Operation Gibraltar was unsuccessful. We fought for 17 days. Both parties wanted to cease fire. US embargo on Pakistan hurt us more. The Tashkent declaration made all parties return all won land. It is taught with these facts. At the end of the day whatever we had won, we lost it on the bargaining table.


Who won in 1971? We didn't win in 1965 either realistically, though successfully defended Lahore and Sialkot.
You can change the grades of these enemies of Pakistan. But ZAB humiliated Ayub derailed his economic reforms and sat on the disintegration of Pakistan. But Zia destroyed the entire fiber of this country as a nation. The seed he has sworn we shall continue to reap for decades to come. Any way it's history that we have lived to see. Let's see the lessons we have learnt.

------
PA Ord Forum

I have only one comment to make: it is this sort of hallucination by the senior Pakistani military commanders that is responsible for the instant inclination of an average Pakistani citizen to believe the most bizarre conspiracy theories. The rot started at the top.
 
Okay yeah but East Paks didn't want independence. Jamaat, Razakars and our Bihari brothers did all the hard work against Indian Mukti terrorists while Pak army was busy ogling at women. Pak Army was more interested in securing West Pak which is why East Pak had to suffer ignominous defeat at the hands of Indians while West Pak remained safe and secure. So it was really sad day for us while West Pak didn't care much. Now India's tryin' to attack us and we don't even have nukes to defend ourselves.
 
Okay yeah but East Paks didn't want independence. Jamaat, Razakars and our Bihari brothers did all the hard work against Indian Mukti terrorists while Pak army was busy ogling at women. Pak Army was more interested in securing West Pak which is why East Pak had to suffer ignominous defeat at the hands of Indians while West Pak remained safe and secure. So it was really sad day for us while West Pak didn't care much. Now India's tryin' to attack us and we don't even have nukes to defend ourselves.
We have another think tank in the making here....give this guy a title before he gets fed with all us dalals here and runs away.
 
Okay yeah but East Paks didn't want independence. Jamaat, Razakars and our Bihari brothers did all the hard work against Indian Mukti terrorists while Pak army was busy ogling at women. Pak Army was more interested in securing West Pak which is why East Pak had to suffer ignominous defeat at the hands of Indians while West Pak remained safe and secure. So it was really sad day for us while West Pak didn't care much. Now India's tryin' to attack us and we don't even have nukes to defend ourselves.
I think you are the product of rootless bihari rajakar.You should put pakistani flag on your avatar.Anyone who call Mukti Bahini 'terrorist' forfeit his right to use Bangladeshi flag.
 
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I think you are the product of rootless bihari rajakar yourselves.You should put pakistani flag on your avatar.Anyone who call Mukti Bahini 'terrorist' forfeit his right to use Bangladeshi flag.
Plz don't insult them through your vitriol. They are patriotic sons of soil who fought hard for their country so nothing to be ashamed of I am proud of my forefather's contributions to Pakistan They remained faithful despite all odds so we should be proud of them. Stop being hypocrite coz if anyone tries to break up Bangladesh you too would fight till death to keep your country intact, and at least not side with the enemy. You should be ashamed of yourselves for targeting our Bihari brothers whose only fault was fighting to protect Pakistan. I am ashamed to call you my countryman
 
Stop being hypocrite coz if anyone tries to break up Bangladesh you too would fight till death to keep your country intact, and at least not side with the enemy
Pakistan was never our country.East and west pakistan was two country in all sense glued togather through unnatural means.
They are patriotic sons of soil who fought hard for their country so nothing to be ashamed of I am proud of my forefather's contributions to Pakistan They remained faithful despite all odds so we should be proud of them.
Your rajakar forefather continued to lick the punjabi boot despite massacre and history of discrimination against East Pakistani including your forefather.I think Pak army gave your forefather a good reciprocity when they abandoned your forefather to Mukti Bahini freedom fighter to take revenge for all the marder,rape and looting done by your forefather. Your kith and keens are still living in bihari basti waiting for to be taken by their punjabi master.But alas! Pakistani consider them to be less useful than the mountain goat which Pakistani graze for surviving.
 
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Pakistan was never our country.East and west pakistan was two country in all sense glued togather through unnatural means.

Your rajakar forefather continued to lick the punjabi boot despite massacre and history of discrimination against East Pakistani including your forefather.I think Pak army gave your forefather a good reciprocity when they abandoned your forefather to Mukti Bahini freedom fighter to take revenge for all the marder,rape and looting done by your forefather. Your kith and keens are still living in bihari basti to be taken by their punjabi master.But alas! Pakistani consider them to be less useful than the mountain goat which Pakistani graze for surviving.
Leave him be...you can't change people's beliefs here.
 
Pakistan was never our country.East and west pakistan was two country in all sense glued togather through unnatural means.

Your rajakar forefather continued to lick the punjabi boot despite massacre and history of discrimination against East Pakistani including your forefather.I think Pak army gave your forefather a good reciprocity when they abandoned your forefather to Mukti Bahini freedom fighter to take revenge for all the marder,rape and looting done by your forefather. Your kith and keens are still living in bihari basti to be taken by their punjabi master.But alas! Pakistani consider them to be less useful than the mountain goat which Pakistani graze for surviving.
Hey don't insult my grandpa. That ain't s#@t

That "discrimination" thing is BS. Bengalis were never once discriminated in Pakistan. We had chief justice, PM and governor who were Bengalis. Look it up on the Internet. My grandpa was senior lieutenant in the Punjab regiment, discrimination LOL. Always remember that Bengal was only one of the many provinces of Pakistan, you can't demand every damn thing for a single ethnic group. That's just selfish blimey. Pre-1971 Pakistan was five times the size of our country, in which we had visa free travel and manifold economic opportunities. That's your idea of suppression?

People like you with your narrow xenophobic mindset make me sick. That disaster called Brexit was possible coz of people with your type of mentality. There are 2.5 million Bengalis still living in Pakistan, discriminated my foot. Did Pakistan kick them out? On the other hand, xenophobic folks like ya keep our Bihari and Razakar brothers like animals for the crime of fightin' for their country. Sindh has a huge mohajir population, did they kick them out. No they didn't. Coz they are not narrow minded and prejudiced like some of those folks in BD. People like you aren't fit for cosmopolitan societies. Come to Bedfordshire and see how BD and Pak families are living happily together. That might inject some sense.

And FYI, the massacre was done by Indian funded Mukti terrorist group to break Pakistan, too bad some people failed to see that. And I am proud grandson of Razakar, do what you wanna do, I don't give a s*@t.
 
Hey don't insult my grandpa. That ain't s#@t

That "discrimination" thing is BS. Bengalis were never once discriminated in Pakistan. We had chief justice, PM and governor who were Bengalis. Look it up on the Internet. My grandpa was senior lieutenant in the Punjab regiment, discrimination LOL. Always remember that Bengal was only one of the many provinces of Pakistan, you can't demand every damn thing for a single ethnic group. That's just selfish blimey. Pre-1971 Pakistan was five times the size of our country, in which we had visa free travel and manifold economic opportunities. That's your idea of suppression?

People like you with your narrow xenophobic mindset make me sick. That disaster called Brexit was possible coz of people with your type of mentality. There are 2.5 million Bengalis still living in Pakistan, discriminated my foot. Did Pakistan kick them out? On the other hand, xenophobic folks like ya keep our Bihari and Razakar brothers like animals for the crime of fightin' for their country. Sindh has a huge mohajir population, did they kick them out. No they didn't. Coz they are not narrow minded and prejudiced like some of those folks in BD. People like you aren't fit for cosmopolitan societies. Come to Bedfordshire and see how BD and Pak families are living happily together. That might inject some sense.

And FYI, the massacre was done by Indian funded Mukti terrorist group to break Pakistan, too bad some people failed to see that. And I am proud grandson of Razakar, do what you wanna do, I don't give a s*@t.
If you so believe in the united Pakistan concept why fly the flag of a country that is the anti-thesis of that concept? The red and green flag is a slap on your grand father's face...I am glad the grandson of a proud Razakar is literally pissing on everything he stood for...keep flying that flag high while your grandfather cringes in his grave.
 
Hey don't insult my grandpa. That ain't s#@t

That "discrimination" thing is BS. Bengalis were never once discriminated in Pakistan. We had chief justice, PM and governor who were Bengalis. Look it up on the Internet. My grandpa was senior lieutenant in the Punjab regiment, discrimination LOL. Always remember that Bengal was only one of the many provinces of Pakistan, you can't demand every damn thing for a single ethnic group. That's just selfish blimey. Pre-1971 Pakistan was five times the size of our country, in which we had visa free travel and manifold economic opportunities. That's your idea of suppression?

People like you with your narrow xenophobic mindset make me sick. That disaster called Brexit was possible coz of people with your type of mentality. There are 2.5 million Bengalis still living in Pakistan, discriminated my foot. Did Pakistan kick them out? On the other hand, xenophobic folks like ya keep our Bihari and Razakar brothers like animals for the crime of fightin' for their country. Sindh has a huge mohajir population, did they kick them out. No they didn't. Coz they are not narrow minded and prejudiced like some of those folks in BD. People like you aren't fit for cosmopolitan societies. Come to Bedfordshire and see how BD and Pak families are living happily together. That might inject some sense.

And FYI, the massacre was done by Indian funded Mukti terrorist group to break Pakistan, too bad some people failed to see that. And I am proud grandson of Razakar, do what you wanna do, I don't give a s*@t.
I am not going to waste my time on you.Descendant of snake will always remain snake.
 
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