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16th Birthday of Nuclear Pakistan

If the topic is just about congratulating Pakistan on the event, then even your post is grossly off topic.
I ask this question because you specifically use the word Islamic bomb, a bomb not just for Pakistan, but for the entire Muslim people.Comprende ??

Exactly. You just read my "one word" but did not read the post in whole to understand "why" exactly I used that term and "what" was I trying to explain.

Please stop quoting me.
 
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congratulation Pakistan :pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:

I know where are coming from, and yes, the major driving force behind Pakistan's nuclear capability was to contain larger India from any misadventure...Having said that, there is a reason why terms like 'The Islamic Bomb' exist...

Let me clarify...


Islam is not a creedal religion like Christianity/Hinduism, it is a legalistic religion more like Judaism (more comprehensive and expressive than Judaism due to historical reasons..but you get the jist). Islam isn't just a religion---but rather a civilizational force of itself. If you had studied "Religion" or "Anthropology" in some elite university of West, you would know what I'm talking about. But lets see it in a simple way..

Islam is not just a religion but a cultural, civilizational force in itself. It has its own laws, personal behavioral code of conduct, its political principles and mechanisms, and even certain parameters for dress-code for individual. It explicitly organizes the interaction of individual and society. All of this makes Muslims not just random followers of a religion, but also "a specific peoples" with their own unique identity no matter where they are on planet Earth. For example, Muslims have a universal greeting for interacting with other Muslims- "Asslam-o-Alaikum". No matter who you are, and where you are, you will know this greeting. Muslims, no matter where they are, follow same rules about divorce, inheritance, food and diet, and heck!, even personal hygiene. They have a same and very codified structure of Islamic rituals that each Muslim know by heart..no matter if he is Nigerian or Indonesian..It has is own universal language of prayer and religious studies (Arabic)..It is kind of like in military..soldiers have their own "soldier culture", distinct from outside world and easily identifiable with. Turkish girls, Iranian girls, Indonesian girls, Indian girls, and Central Asian girls etc couldn't be further in terms of behavior, geography etc...but they all wear Hijab, in its own unique manifestations. All of this shows that Islam, other than being a spiritual religion, is a civilization of its own. It makes many different identities into one super nation that can be called as 'Islamic People'. Religion like Christianity or Hinduism doesn't since they have trillion of different doctrines, practices, and many different 'holy' books etc.There are no 'christian peoples' or 'Hindu peoples'..However there are 'Jewish people' and 'Islamic peoples.' To understand Islam, Judaism and Jews are a good example. Other than nationalities, Jews are also a specific 'people' or define themselves as such. You know why? Because Judaism is also a 'legalistic' religion and not a creedal one.

It doesn't mean that we are one state and that Iran and Turkey will not compete with each other. But on mass level, Muslims do feel for other Muslims and you know it too.

So if Muslims are being destroyed, it DOES become relevant for Muslims in other part of the world. That is why after Iraq war, U.S rating in Indonesia just plunged to record bottom..even though U.S and Indonesia have a very good relationship.

Similarly, whether you accept it or not, Pakistan's nuclear capability was celebrated across wider Islamic World. There was this sense of "Now, the Islamic peoples also have The Bomb."

Hope it clarifies a little for you.
I understand your difficult situation. believe me I do. but sometimes we have to live with our choices and stand by them.

Regarding the Islamic bomb, let me tell you that the whole Muslim world rejoiced our Nuclear tests and still does whenever Pakistan tests a missile.

guys why are you guys bringing in Islam in to a national subject ? you spoiling the whole mood of a beautiful celebration of a moment of immense national achievement & pride by doing this,

kindly please don't include the entire Islamic world & non-Pakistani Muslims in to it, please let it be a national pride, rather then a religious one, as there are other Muslims too ! besides Pakistan, so please think about it, suppose if a Muslim does not like Pakistan, but he likes Islam then these kinds of religious association might make him/her dislike Islam is that fair ? should we push people away from Islam ? no we shouldn't because it is better for a person to dislike Pakistan then to dislike Islam. remember Islam is a universal religion (free from cast, creed, culture & countries) & not a national one
@Oscar
sir please take note they are flaming this beautiful thread, by turning it into a religious one
 
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I know where are coming from, and yes, the major driving force behind Pakistan's nuclear capability was to contain larger India from any misadventure...Having said that, there is a reason why terms like 'The Islamic Bomb' exist...

Let me clarify...


Islam is not a creedal religion like Christianity/Hinduism, it is a legalistic religion more like Judaism (more comprehensive and expressive than Judaism due to historical reasons..but you get the jist). Islam isn't just a religion---but rather a civilizational force of itself. If you had studied "Religion" or "Anthropology" in some elite university of West, you would know what I'm talking about. But lets see it in a simple way..

Islam is not just a religion but a cultural, civilizational force in itself. It has its own laws, personal behavioral code of conduct, its political principles and mechanisms, and even certain parameters for dress-code for individual. It explicitly organizes the interaction of individual and society. All of this makes Muslims not just random followers of a religion, but also "a specific peoples" with their own unique identity no matter where they are on planet Earth. For example, Muslims have a universal greeting for interacting with other Muslims- "Asslam-o-Alaikum". No matter who you are, and where you are, you will know this greeting. Muslims, no matter where they are, follow same rules about divorce, inheritance, food and diet, and heck!, even personal hygiene. They have a same and very codified structure of Islamic rituals that each Muslim know by heart..no matter if he is Nigerian or Indonesian..It has is own universal language of prayer and religious studies (Arabic)..It is kind of like in military..soldiers have their own "soldier culture", distinct from outside world and easily identifiable with. Turkish girls, Iranian girls, Indonesian girls, Indian girls, and Central Asian girls etc couldn't be further in terms of behavior, geography etc...but they all wear Hijab, in its own unique manifestations. All of this shows that Islam, other than being a spiritual religion, is a civilization of its own. It makes many different identities into one super nation that can be called as 'Islamic People'. Religion like Christianity or Hinduism doesn't since they have trillion of different doctrines, practices, and many different 'holy' books etc.There are no 'christian peoples' or 'Hindu peoples'..However there are 'Jewish people' and 'Islamic peoples.' To understand Islam, Judaism and Jews are a good example. Other than nationalities, Jews are also a specific 'people' or define themselves as such. You know why? Because Judaism is also a 'legalistic' religion and not a creedal one.

It doesn't mean that we are one state and that Iran and Turkey will not compete with each other. But on mass level, Muslims do feel for other Muslims and you know it too.

So if Muslims are being destroyed, it DOES become relevant for Muslims in other part of the world. That is why after Iraq war, U.S rating in Indonesia just plunged to record bottom..even though U.S and Indonesia have a very good relationship.

Similarly, whether you accept it or not, Pakistan's nuclear capability was celebrated across wider Islamic World. There was this sense of "Now, the Islamic peoples also have The Bomb."

Hope it clarifies a little for you.
@Hazzy997 I found another one on PDF !!! :woot:

@AUz where were you all this time ???
 
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On topic: Yar bht celebrate kr liya bomb...

I want to see MIRVed Shaheen-IIIs with 3000-3500km range, nuclear cruise missiles on our submarines with increased range of atleast upto 1000km, and probably a Pakistani nuclear ICBM...

Leaving aside ICBM, yar baki do cheezain to bht dair se over-due hain ab

@The Deterrent :(
 
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so please think about it suppose if a Muslim does not like Pakistan, but he likes Islam then these kind of religious association might make the him/her dislike Islam is that fair ? should we push people away from Islam ? no we shouldn't because it is better for a person to dislike Pakistan then to dislike Islam. remember Islam is a universal religion (free from cast, creed, culture & countries) & not a national one
You're making zero sense.

@Oscar
sir please take note they are flaming this beautiful thread, by turning it into a religious one
I opened this thread. plz read the first post and If you have a problem with it then you can discuss it here and i'll answer.

Otherwise **** off !!!
 
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Allah has made Pakistan a nuclear power because of some reason..

Not some reason,
only "One" reason...... :)

Tamgha-e-Baqa
Nuclear Test Medal
PK114a.jpg
 
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No mate,I didn't have to make any difficult decisions and I am quiet happy and proud of the life I have as of now. And I am personally cannot agree with the term 'islamic world' or 'islamic bomb',as having a muslim majority and having Islam as the official religion doesn't make a nation Islamic. Islam is a religion,something personal,and its not correct to tag a country or a weapon with it. Pakistan made the bomb to counter India,and thats it,Islam had nothing to do with it,other than the fact that both these nations has muslims in it.
the title of islamic bomb was given by west in comparison with jewish bomb not by Pakistan itself...
 
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I know where are coming from, and yes, the major driving force behind Pakistan's nuclear capability was to contain larger India from any misadventure...Having said that, there is a reason why terms like 'The Islamic Bomb' exist...

Let me clarify...


Islam is not a creedal religion like Christianity/Hinduism, it is a legalistic religion more like Judaism (more comprehensive and expressive than Judaism due to historical reasons..but you get the jist). Islam isn't just a religion---but rather a civilizational force of itself. If you had studied "Religion" or "Anthropology" in some elite university of West, you would know what I'm talking about. But lets see it in a simple way..


Similarly, whether you accept it or not, Pakistan's nuclear capability was celebrated across wider Islamic World. There was this sense of "Now, the Islamic peoples also have The Bomb."

Hope it clarifies a little for you.

auz,

Good man----thanks for the post-----. That day indeed changed the image of pakistn all over the muslim world----they were rejoicing everywhere in the world for pkistan.
 
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Is this Islamic bomb of any significance when it comes to other Muslim countries ? I didn't see it saving the Muslims of Iraq or Libya or Yemen etc etc...

yeah but it is posing a big threat to Israel and restricting him from expanding its territories ...
 
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islamic bomb ? The hell is that ? Palestenians are losing their land in thousands of acres every year to the evil jews. Too bad they can't benefit from islamic bomb ! Maybe they are not muslims cause majority are shias ?

What about the iraq invasion ? Hell .. what happened when christian forces gunned down osama in his house right beside the town where the nuclear silos are located ? ;)

pakistanis are a funny bunch !
 
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islamic bomb ? The hell is that ? Palestenians are losing their land in thousands of acres every year to the evil jews. Too bad they can't benefit from islamic bomb ! Maybe they are not muslims cause majority are shias ?

What about the iraq invasion ? Hell .. what happened when christian forces gunned down osama in his house right beside the town where the nuclear silos are located ? ;)

pakistanis are a funny bunch !

farewell to your trolls....this bomb was made only and only for India and because it was developed in Islamic republic of Pakistan so it was given title of Islamic bomb by west...:D
 
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Exactly. You just read my "one word" but did not read the post in whole to understand "why" exactly I used that term and "what" was I trying to explain.
Be rest assured I read what you had to say and that does not answer my question.
Please stop quoting me.
Another way of saying you don't have a proper answer..Well, off you go then..
 
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yeah but it is posing a big threat to Israel and restricting him from expanding its territories ...
Greater Israel is not some conspiracy theory its the future which most in Israel wants and that includes capturing of Makkah and Madinah and Pakistani Nuclear weapons are now biggest hurdle in achieving that goal and they will remain hurdle for Israel for every
 
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I know where are coming from, and yes, the major driving force behind Pakistan's nuclear capability was to contain larger India from any misadventure...Having said that, there is a reason why terms like 'The Islamic Bomb' exist...

Let me clarify...


Islam is not a creedal religion like Christianity/Hinduism, it is a legalistic religion more like Judaism (more comprehensive and expressive than Judaism due to historical reasons..but you get the jist). Islam isn't just a religion---but rather a civilizational force of itself. If you had studied "Religion" or "Anthropology" in some elite university of West, you would know what I'm talking about. But lets see it in a simple way..

Islam is not just a religion but a cultural, civilizational force in itself. It has its own laws, personal behavioral code of conduct, its political principles and mechanisms, and even certain parameters for dress-code for individual. It explicitly organizes the interaction of individual and society. All of this makes Muslims not just random followers of a religion, but also "a specific peoples" with their own unique identity no matter where they are on planet Earth. For example, Muslims have a universal greeting for interacting with other Muslims- "Asslam-o-Alaikum". No matter who you are, and where you are, you will know this greeting. Muslims, no matter where they are, follow same rules about divorce, inheritance, food and diet, and heck!, even personal hygiene. They have a same and very codified structure of Islamic rituals that each Muslim know by heart..no matter if he is Nigerian or Indonesian..It has is own universal language of prayer and religious studies (Arabic)..It is kind of like in military..soldiers have their own "soldier culture", distinct from outside world and easily identifiable with. Turkish girls, Iranian girls, Indonesian girls, Indian girls, and Central Asian girls etc couldn't be further in terms of behavior, geography etc...but they all wear Hijab, in its own unique manifestations. All of this shows that Islam, other than being a spiritual religion, is a civilization of its own. It makes many different identities into one super nation that can be called as 'Islamic People'. Religion like Christianity or Hinduism doesn't since they have trillion of different doctrines, practices, and many different 'holy' books etc.There are no 'christian peoples' or 'Hindu peoples'..However there are 'Jewish people' and 'Islamic peoples.' To understand Islam, Judaism and Jews are a good example. Other than nationalities, Jews are also a specific 'people' or define themselves as such. You know why? Because Judaism is also a 'legalistic' religion and not a creedal one.

It doesn't mean that we are one state and that Iran and Turkey will not compete with each other. But on mass level, Muslims do feel for other Muslims and you know it too.

So if Muslims are being destroyed, it DOES become relevant for Muslims in other part of the world. That is why after Iraq war, U.S rating in Indonesia just plunged to record bottom..even though U.S and Indonesia have a very good relationship.

Similarly, whether you accept it or not, Pakistan's nuclear capability was celebrated across wider Islamic World. There was this sense of "Now, the Islamic peoples also have The Bomb."

Hope it clarifies a little for you.


The myth of the ‘Islamic bomb’

Two months back, in November 2013, Mark Urban of the BBC came up with one of the most sensational pieces of journalism, claiming that Saudi Arabia had allegedly financed Pakistan’s nuclear weapons programme and was confident it could acquire atomic bombs at will from Pakistan. Unnamed NATO officials and a former Israeli military intelligence chief were quoted as arguing that Pakistan maintained “a certain number of warheads” and that “if Saudis were to ask for them at any given time they would immediately be transferred”. The story raised some concerns in diplomatic circles but failed to attract much attention. On the heels of the BBC story, Bruce Riedel, a former CIA analyst, claimed last week that Saudi Arabia has already clinched a deal with Pakistan for a bomb. Bruce Riedel has also claimed that the reason behind a rapid increase in Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal is that the Pakistani government has a commitment to provide a nuclear bomb to Saudi Arabia.

If we ruminate over the situation impartially, it comes out loud and clear that the above mentioned claims are characterised by exaggeration. There is no disputing the fact that Pakistan has the fastest growing nuclear arsenal in the world but this hardly proves the conclusion drawn by Bruce Riedel and other analysts that Pakistan is building more bombs for Saudi Arabia. In fact, most experts are portraying such scenarios, fraught with oversimplification, as due to growing apprehensions that Saudi Arabia would also seek to acquire nuclear weapons if Iran crossed the nuclear threshold. However, they lose sight of the fact that it is technically not possible to transfer nuclear weapons from one country to another as a mere commodity. In addition, Saudi Arabia does not have the nuclear infrastructure and scientific expertise to be able to maintain and use nuclear weapons. The conventional view is that the value of nuclear weapons lies in their deterrent effect. When Saudi Arabia cannot publicly claim to be in possession of these weapons, this adds little to its deterrence capabilities.

The speculations about a secret agreement on nuclear cooperation between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan originally started due to a visit to Pakistani nuclear research laboratories by Saudi Crown Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz in 1999. Although Pakistan’s nuclear security establishment later claimed that the research laboratories visited by the Saudi prince had nothing to do with Pakistan’s nuclear weapons project, apprehensions regarding Saudi Arabia acquiring nuclear technology from Pakistan refuse to die down. The suspicions of nuclear cooperation also grew due to testimony of a former Saudi Arabian diplomat, Mohammed Khilewi, in his asylum application in 1994. Khilewi claimed that Saudi Arabia had signed a pact with Pakistan pledging that, in the event of a nuclear attack on Saudi Arabia, Pakistan would respond with its own arsenal.

These speculations, however, have once again instigated a debate around the misleading notion of the Islamic bomb. Many Pakistani and foreign authors have often been rhetorically speaking of our nuclear capability in terms of an ‘Islamic bomb’ and a BBC documentary was also titled such, which gave a historical account of Pakistan’s journey to nuclear weapons. However, the term ‘Islamic bomb’ was first coined by former PM of Pakistan Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. In 1979, Bhutto wrote from his death cell in Rawalpindi jail: “We know that Israel and South Africa have full nuclear capability. The Christian, Jewish and Hindu civilisations have this capability. The communist powers also possess it. Only the Islamic civilisation was without it, but that position was about to change.”

The fact of the matter is that Bhutto was fully aware of the ideological and sectarian fissures in the Muslim world and did not internally believe in this mythical concept. But knowing that the Islamic bomb would be widely considered a strong defence against the west, Bhutto suddenly used the idea to gain the support of the Muslim world so he could save himself. The truth is that Pakistan has never been able to extend substantial support to pan-Islamic causes. When Pakistani rulers started the nuclear weapons programme, they had only two things in mind: loss of East Pakistan in the 1971 war with India and making Pakistan’s defence impregnable to save the country from any such future tragedy. Fifteen years after Bhutto’s death, Iranian Vice President Sayed Ayatollah Mohajerani spoke on the same lines, calling upon all Muslim countries to join hands to produce an Islamic bomb. However, his call also failed to gain considerable support from other Muslim countries.

Unfortunately, due to the poor internal security situation and equally poor record on nonproliferation, the international media gets the opportunity to come up with such hyped up concerns about Pakistan’s nuclear programme every now and then. It is certainly true that a portion of funding for Pakistan’s nuclear programme came from Libya, Saudi Arabia and some other Arab countries. It is also true that after the 1998 Indian nuclear tests, Pakistani authorities rejected all international pressure and tested nuclear weapons due to Saudi Arabia’s promise of giving almost 50,000 barrels of free oil a day in the event of international sanctions. However, all this help did not entail any obligation on Pakistan to transfer sensitive nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia. Pakistani rulers are well aware of the fact that any transfer of nuclear materials would lead to an extreme backlash from the international community and Pakistan may be formally declared as an ‘irresponsible nuclear state’.

Some western analysts have also been trying to link the secret activities of the A Q Khan network with the cause of the Islamic bomb but documents released by Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan himself show that nuclear technology was transferred to North Korea, Iran and some other countries in order to gain monetary benefits. Mythical ideas like the Islamic bomb have no place in the 21st century due to the supremacy of national identities over religious causes in the Muslim world. Pakistan has always publicly opposed Iran’s efforts to acquire nuclear weapons. Pakistan does not want any other Muslim country to acquire nuclear capability so that its status as the sole Muslim nuclear power can remain intact. This is also another reason why the Pakistani government will never hand over nuclear weapons to Saudi Arabia.

The myth of the ‘Islamic bomb’
 
.
The myth of the ‘Islamic bomb’

Two months back, in November 2013, Mark Urban of the BBC came up with one of the most sensational pieces of journalism, claiming that Saudi Arabia had allegedly financed Pakistan’s nuclear weapons programme and was confident it could acquire atomic bombs at will from Pakistan. Unnamed NATO officials and a former Israeli military intelligence chief were quoted as arguing that Pakistan maintained “a certain number of warheads” and that “if Saudis were to ask for them at any given time they would immediately be transferred”. The story raised some concerns in diplomatic circles but failed to attract much attention. On the heels of the BBC story, Bruce Riedel, a former CIA analyst, claimed last week that Saudi Arabia has already clinched a deal with Pakistan for a bomb. Bruce Riedel has also claimed that the reason behind a rapid increase in Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal is that the Pakistani government has a commitment to provide a nuclear bomb to Saudi Arabia.

If we ruminate over the situation impartially, it comes out loud and clear that the above mentioned claims are characterised by exaggeration. There is no disputing the fact that Pakistan has the fastest growing nuclear arsenal in the world but this hardly proves the conclusion drawn by Bruce Riedel and other analysts that Pakistan is building more bombs for Saudi Arabia. In fact, most experts are portraying such scenarios, fraught with oversimplification, as due to growing apprehensions that Saudi Arabia would also seek to acquire nuclear weapons if Iran crossed the nuclear threshold. However, they lose sight of the fact that it is technically not possible to transfer nuclear weapons from one country to another as a mere commodity. In addition, Saudi Arabia does not have the nuclear infrastructure and scientific expertise to be able to maintain and use nuclear weapons. The conventional view is that the value of nuclear weapons lies in their deterrent effect. When Saudi Arabia cannot publicly claim to be in possession of these weapons, this adds little to its deterrence capabilities.

The speculations about a secret agreement on nuclear cooperation between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan originally started due to a visit to Pakistani nuclear research laboratories by Saudi Crown Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz in 1999. Although Pakistan’s nuclear security establishment later claimed that the research laboratories visited by the Saudi prince had nothing to do with Pakistan’s nuclear weapons project, apprehensions regarding Saudi Arabia acquiring nuclear technology from Pakistan refuse to die down. The suspicions of nuclear cooperation also grew due to testimony of a former Saudi Arabian diplomat, Mohammed Khilewi, in his asylum application in 1994. Khilewi claimed that Saudi Arabia had signed a pact with Pakistan pledging that, in the event of a nuclear attack on Saudi Arabia, Pakistan would respond with its own arsenal.

These speculations, however, have once again instigated a debate around the misleading notion of the Islamic bomb. Many Pakistani and foreign authors have often been rhetorically speaking of our nuclear capability in terms of an ‘Islamic bomb’ and a BBC documentary was also titled such, which gave a historical account of Pakistan’s journey to nuclear weapons. However, the term ‘Islamic bomb’ was first coined by former PM of Pakistan Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. In 1979, Bhutto wrote from his death cell in Rawalpindi jail: “We know that Israel and South Africa have full nuclear capability. The Christian, Jewish and Hindu civilisations have this capability. The communist powers also possess it. Only the Islamic civilisation was without it, but that position was about to change.”

The fact of the matter is that Bhutto was fully aware of the ideological and sectarian fissures in the Muslim world and did not internally believe in this mythical concept. But knowing that the Islamic bomb would be widely considered a strong defence against the west, Bhutto suddenly used the idea to gain the support of the Muslim world so he could save himself. The truth is that Pakistan has never been able to extend substantial support to pan-Islamic causes. When Pakistani rulers started the nuclear weapons programme, they had only two things in mind: loss of East Pakistan in the 1971 war with India and making Pakistan’s defence impregnable to save the country from any such future tragedy. Fifteen years after Bhutto’s death, Iranian Vice President Sayed Ayatollah Mohajerani spoke on the same lines, calling upon all Muslim countries to join hands to produce an Islamic bomb. However, his call also failed to gain considerable support from other Muslim countries.

Unfortunately, due to the poor internal security situation and equally poor record on nonproliferation, the international media gets the opportunity to come up with such hyped up concerns about Pakistan’s nuclear programme every now and then. It is certainly true that a portion of funding for Pakistan’s nuclear programme came from Libya, Saudi Arabia and some other Arab countries. It is also true that after the 1998 Indian nuclear tests, Pakistani authorities rejected all international pressure and tested nuclear weapons due to Saudi Arabia’s promise of giving almost 50,000 barrels of free oil a day in the event of international sanctions. However, all this help did not entail any obligation on Pakistan to transfer sensitive nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia. Pakistani rulers are well aware of the fact that any transfer of nuclear materials would lead to an extreme backlash from the international community and Pakistan may be formally declared as an ‘irresponsible nuclear state’.

Some western analysts have also been trying to link the secret activities of the A Q Khan network with the cause of the Islamic bomb but documents released by Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan himself show that nuclear technology was transferred to North Korea, Iran and some other countries in order to gain monetary benefits. Mythical ideas like the Islamic bomb have no place in the 21st century due to the supremacy of national identities over religious causes in the Muslim world. Pakistan has always publicly opposed Iran’s efforts to acquire nuclear weapons. Pakistan does not want any other Muslim country to acquire nuclear capability so that its status as the sole Muslim nuclear power can remain intact. This is also another reason why the Pakistani government will never hand over nuclear weapons to Saudi Arabia.

The myth of the ‘Islamic bomb’
This article is written by either some Indian or some Liberal idiot and he has not idea about what this bomb really means and as for as handing over to Saudi Arabia every body will know it sooner or a little later
 
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