$15 billion Saudi bailout likely

[Jackdaws]

"cancellation of hunting facilities for Saudi royals had also annoyed the kingdom."???

Saudis come to hunt? Hunt what?

 

[Bratva]

Am I?

I have no doubt that we need help with our economy.... but at what cost?
Further sectarianism? Continuation of policies where we play "favorite pet" to the KSA?
Further destabilization of our internal dynamics through proxy wars fought between the Saudis and Iranians in Balochistan and elsewhere?

What is more important at this stage?
Financial recovery(at the price of increased destabilization by either Iranians or Saudi Arabians or both).. or the stability of the social fabric.. ?
And at this stage the idea of borrowing from the Americans is much more attractive than borrowing from the Saudis(they just decided they want to deport more Pakistanis, and want us to give a cold shoulder to Iran...which is our neighbor) .
Yes they have been our "brothers"(some of them truly have been.. the royals).. Yes they have given us Assistance(Madressas)..
Yes they supported us during our nuclear boycott(until we realized that it was all to get them to boast to the Iranians that they have a bomb).

It depends on the preference, on experience and on impact. Our policies with radicalization, with sectarianism will only increase during these tenures because we WILL be obliged to come to terms with the Saudis.. and unlike the US...we cant "get rid" of them because they control the holy mosques.

Yes, objectively it would seem like a good opportunity.. $15 billion we could use that is like adrenaline for our economy.. moreover it also implies improved relations with the Saudis.. But as a cost benefit thing.. across the spectrum and not just economics..
Is it worth it?

Oscar Sahab,,, sectarianism roots started with American dollars pouring in to Afghan Jihad. It was duty of our LEA and Intelligence agencies to keep this monster in check yet it was them who nurtured this monster

Pakistan's failed themselves, American dollars fueled sectarianism in Pakistan. When it is the failure of Pakistani institutions then why are you blaming it on Saudis? I hate this attitude of criticizing just for the sake of criticizing

 

[BATMAN]

The most radical people in Pakistan are those, who brand hate and sectarianism in their daily life and behavior.

Idiotic reaction of some godfathers and negers, to the news clearly show... who is radicalized!

 

[That Guy]

Am I?

I have no doubt that we need help with our economy.... but at what cost?
Further sectarianism? Continuation of policies where we play "favorite pet" to the KSA?
Further destabilization of our internal dynamics through proxy wars fought between the Saudis and Iranians in Balochistan and elsewhere?

What is more important at this stage?
Financial recovery(at the price of increased destabilization by either Iranians or Saudi Arabians or both).. or the stability of the social fabric.. ?
And at this stage the idea of borrowing from the Americans is much more attractive than borrowing from the Saudis(they just decided they want to deport more Pakistanis, and want us to give a cold shoulder to Iran...which is our neighbor) .
Yes they have been our "brothers"(some of them truly have been.. the royals).. Yes they have given us Assistance(Madressas)..
Yes they supported us during our nuclear boycott(until we realized that it was all to get them to boast to the Iranians that they have a bomb).

It depends on the preference, on experience and on impact. Our policies with radicalization, with sectarianism will only increase during these tenures because we WILL be obliged to come to terms with the Saudis.. and unlike the US...we cant "get rid" of them because they control the holy mosques.

Yes, objectively it would seem like a good opportunity.. $15 billion we could use that is like adrenaline for our economy.. moreover it also implies improved relations with the Saudis.. But as a cost benefit thing.. across the spectrum and not just economics..
Is it worth it?

Okay, now you're just being melodramatic. You're just spouting anti-KSA comments and unsubstantiated assumptions based on your own bias.

So yes, you are being to overly dramatic and over thinking things.

You seem to think that Iran actually would be a better partner to Pakistan than Saudi Arabia, which I have to say is ridicules. The only reason why the Iranians support Pakistan now is because of anti-US feelings in Pakistan. They couldn't care less if Pakistan was destroyed.

 

[Amaa'n]

Oscar Sahab,,, sectarianism roots started with American dollars pouring in to Afghan Jihad. It was duty of our LEA and Intelligence agencies to keep this monster in check yet it was them who nurtured this monster

Pakistan's failed themselves, American dollars fueled sectarianism in Pakistan. When it is the failure of Pakistani institutions then why are you blaming it on Saudis? I hate this attitude of criticizing just for the sake of criticizing

sir g you are right that this all started with American dollars pouring into Afghan Jihad, but post Afghan war 1889 when country was destablized as a gap was created, US supported KSA to run madaras in Pakistan to provide support for Taliban so they could take over Afghanistan which could bring stability to the country.
though US did have the hand in this all but the preaching and wahabism was brought to the country through KSA.

 

[BATMAN]

"cancellation of hunting facilities for Saudi royals had also annoyed the kingdom."???

Saudis come to hunt? Hunt what?

OFF topic... these hindus have all the freedom on this forum.

 

[Amaa'n]

Okay, now you're just being melodramatic. You're just spouting anti-KSA comments and unsubstantiated assumptions based on your own bias.

So yes, you are being to overly dramatic and over thinking things.

You seem to think that Iran actually would be a better partner to Pakistan than Saudi Arabia, which I have to say is ridicules. The only reason why the Iranians support Pakistan now is because of anti-US feelings in Pakistan. They couldn't care less if Pakistan was destroyed.

please do not take it as offensive but do you know the history of KSA and its support for wahabism in Pakistan? we are not worried whether it would affect IPP( i mean we are concerned) but we are worried more about sectarian voilence which will be on the rise as both countries Iran and KSA will fight proxy wars in Pakistan as they did in past

 

[474474]

Saudi don't ask you to kill your own people and betray Muslims in Afghanistan you are slaves of USA you sell Muslims to USA you kill them on their orders you betray Muslims of Afghanistan and Many USA aid is in loan form and most things from Saudi Arabia you almost get them for free

I'd like saudi if they DID pay us to kill those so called 'muslims' in afghanistan

 

[SQ8]

Okay, now you're just being melodramatic. You're just spouting anti-KSA comments and unsubstantiated assumptions based on your own bias.

So yes, you are being to overly dramatic and over thinking things.

You seem to think that Iran actually would be a better partner to Pakistan than Saudi Arabia, which I have to say is ridicules. The only reason why the Iranians support Pakistan now is because of anti-US feelings in Pakistan. They couldn't care less if Pakistan was destroyed.

My melodrama is based on ground realities and is hardly out of any love for Iran... Including but not limited to..

1. Sectarian Hatred( Both Iran and Saudi Arabia use influence to create strife among groups in their proxy wars,,going on since the 1980's between SA and Iran.. a sort of Sunni vs Shia)

2. Radicalization( It always does come down to the seminary.. violence against other sects, religions etc.. where funding HAS been identified to be from Saudi ends).

3. Iran has little love for Pakistan but at this stage borders our most volatile province. along with influence in Afghanistan. India .. has been constantly courting Iran(successfully) and now spreads influence into Afghanistan..a hostile Iran will only support India(as it did in the 90s) to influence Afghanistan into being more and more threatening to us.

Would you rather have Pakistan facing threats from all corners(and inside too??)...
So yes.. I more than just bias fueling melodrama.

 

[BATMAN]

sir g you are right that this all started with American dollars pouring into Afghan Jihad, but post Afghan war 1889 when country was destablized as a gap was created, US supported KSA to run madaras in Pakistan to provide support for Taliban so they could take over Afghanistan which could bring stability to the country.
though US did have the hand in this all but the preaching and wahabism was brought to the country through KSA.

At the same time BB supported india and planted scores of RAW operative in Pakistan, employed them in security agencies.

BB also gifted nuclear technology to Iran and India. while Saudi Arabia funded our nuclear research program.

You must be a hell of a delusional guy to believe that BB would let Saudi Arabia in any sort of comfort inside Pakistan... now when husband of BB took over.. Saudi Ambassador got shot!

 

[Kompromat]

Please come to Pakistan in this summer and bear the brunt of 12-15 hours of loadshedding daily with temp soaring to 48 degrees, then if you feel this 15 billion dollar deal is unworthy, we will accept your hue and cry. It is easy to criticize while sitting in a country where you have uninterrupted power supply and summers spent their is a joy

It would be better if you give me a workable sheet to show how Pakistan going to deal with this loan,instead of emotional swagger.

 

[Amaa'n]

my dear am not talking about one specific year, am talking about a period of atleast 10 years, 1989 to 1997 now am sure you are smart enough to see who served from 1990 to 1993 and 1997 onwards, thats when taliban captured kabul....

At the same time BB supported india and planted scores of RAW operative in Pakistan, employed them in security agencies.

BB also gifted nuclear technology to Iran and India. while Saudi Arabia funded our nuclear research program.

You must be a hell of a delusional guy to believe that BB would let Saudi Arabia in any sort of comfort inside Pakistan... now when husband of BB took over.. Saudi Ambassador got shot!

 

[BATMAN]

My melodrama is based on ground realities and is hardly out of any love for Iran... Including but not limited to..

1. Sectarian Hatred( Both Iran and Saudi Arabia use influence to create strife among groups in their proxy wars,,going on since the 1980's between SA and Iran.. a sort of Sunni vs Shia)

2. Radicalization( It always does come down to the seminary.. violence against other sects, religions etc.. where funding HAS been identified to be from Saudi ends).

3. Iran has little love for Pakistan but at this stage borders our most volatile province. along with influence in Afghanistan. India .. has been constantly courting Iran(successfully) and now spreads influence into Afghanistan..a hostile Iran will only support India(as it did in the 90s) to influence Afghanistan into being more and more threatening to us.

Would you rather have Pakistan facing threats from all corners(and inside too??)...
So yes.. I more than just bias fueling melodrama.

Sectarian hate always spread, under BB/Zardari govt. this is a fact.. which you conveniently ignore.
Iran got distanced from Pakistan in 90's when it was ruled by BB. and what seminaries are funded by Saudi Arabia?

 

[SQ8]

Oscar Sahab,,, sectarianism roots started with American dollars pouring in to Afghan Jihad. It was duty of our LEA and Intelligence agencies to keep this monster in check yet it was them who nurtured this monster

Pakistan's failed themselves, American dollars fueled sectarianism in Pakistan. When it is the failure of Pakistani institutions then why are you blaming it on Saudis? I hate this attitude of criticizing just for the sake of criticizing

Huzoor, American dollars werent the ONLY thing fueling the war.... there was training needed too.
Where did this come from? Who asked KSA to help out.. fund these seminaries?
And even AFTER the Americans left.. Yes.. in our fault.. we Pakistanis requested the Saudis to continue operating these seminaries and breed extremists for use in the Kashmir war and to help Hekmatyar take Kabul.

All these recent attacks in Quetta.. against Hazaras.. was it just the Americans trying to destabilize the situation? Or could they(which they did and it created a furor in the corridors of power) ask someone to do it for them.

What seems sensible to all that we should support this action or find my position based on pure bias is because the very idea of opposing the Saudis has been made kufr in our minds.. Hence the idea that the "Khadim-e-Harmain" may not be all "brotherly" about us is simply something that does not compute.. mostly for religious reasons and partly due to the assistance that we have received from them(at some cost.. and to our own mistake).

Now, all that outburst aside..
what is the real balance needed??
Such a large sum cannot be without conditions? Would you agree??
What conditions might those be?

Regardless of brotherly relations and otherwise.. Would you be willing to give $15 billion dollars to any state.. without any benefits other than "please pay it back at this time". The Americans dont do that, the IMF does not.. Neither does Turkey.. NOR CHINA.

 

[BATMAN]

my dear am not talking about one specific year, am talking about a period of atleast 10 years, 1989 to 1997 now am sure you are smart enough to see who served from 1990 to 1993 and 1997 onwards, thats when taliban captured kabul....

I don't have to be smart to see the truth.. it has been established by our security agencies that BB was being toyed by RAW and was working against Pakistani interests. She was declared security risk.

The Khalistan movement leaders blame BB for the cold blood massacre of its leadership while they were praying in golden temple.

Dr.AQKhan is on record, saying that it was BB who forced him to transfer nuclear tech. to Iran, why should i keep my self guessing!