$15 billion Saudi bailout likely

[SQ8]

Sectarian hate always spread, under BB/Zardari govt. this is a fact.. which you conveniently ignore.
Iran got distanced from Pakistan in 90's when it was ruled by BB. and what seminaries are funded by Saudi Arabia?

I absolutely agree with you on this point.. Sectarianism is NOT confined to the Saudis.. the Iranians have been using their influence to create strife as well.

Iran got distanced first because of our support for the GCC during the Iran-Iraq war.. and eventually when our interests in Afghanistan did not converge..

And really idiotic question to ask for list of seminaries...
are these things usually on the internet?

I don't have to be smart to see the truth.. it has been established by our security agencies that BB was being toyed by RAW and was working against Pakistani interests. She was declared security risk.

The Khalistan movement leaders blame BB for the cold blood massacre of its leadership while they were praying in golden temple.

Dr.AQKhan is on record, saying that it was BB who forced him to transfer nuclear tech. to Iran, why should i keep my self guessing!

Your truth.

"cancellation of hunting facilities for Saudi royals had also annoyed the kingdom."???

Saudis come to hunt? Hunt what?

Hubara Bustard.. falconry mostly..
.. The bird was almost hunted to extinction until the people realized and started putting quotas on the number of hunting licences.

 

[That Guy]

My melodrama is based on ground realities and is hardly out of any love for Iran... Including but not limited to..

1. Sectarian Hatred( Both Iran and Saudi Arabia use influence to create strife among groups in their proxy wars,,going on since the 1980's between SA and Iran.. a sort of Sunni vs Shia)

2. Radicalization( It always does come down to the seminary.. violence against other sects, religions etc.. where funding HAS been identified to be from Saudi ends).

3. Iran has little love for Pakistan but at this stage borders our most volatile province. along with influence in Afghanistan. India .. has been constantly courting Iran(successfully) and now spreads influence into Afghanistan..a hostile Iran will only support India(as it did in the 90s) to influence Afghanistan into being more and more threatening to us.

Would you rather have Pakistan facing threats from all corners(and inside too??)...
So yes.. I more than just bias fueling melodrama.

Again, Pakistan can court both Iran and SA and it should for the sake of Pakistan's economy.

Your ideas are not based in ground realities, instead they're based in irrational assumptions. You assume that SA and Iran are playing some sort of proxy sectarian game inside Pakistan, ignoring the fact that a poor economy leads to irrational mob mentality and sectarianism. You assume that Pakistan should court Iran, when according to yourself, Iran has done very little for Pakistan. You assume Iran has the same influence over the same factions in Afghanistan as it in the 80s and 90s, when it's pretty much a consensus that Iran has influence over the Taliban and has been losing favor with the Afghan gov.

Nothing you say makes any real sense. You point out false problems and then fail to provide any real solution to them.

 

[BATMAN]

Our support to GCC during Iran - Iraq war? GCC never existed by than.

We did not party with any one during Iran - Iraq war.. which was an event of 80's, when Iran has good diplomatic relations with Pakistan.

 

[Pakistanisage]

This is great thanks Saudia and other brotherly nations for helping Pakistan to get rid of energy crises.
PTI looser are only left with spreading "Mayoosi" as we can see in this thread too.



Its not a bowl stupid nor Saudi's are giving us cash, its basically a export of oil to Pak on deferred payments.

How old are you ?

Apparently highly IMMATURE because you can't fathom basic norms of discussion.

Learn to argue without hurling INSULTS because that is a sign of immaturity and childishness.

Moderators @Oscar and others should take notice.

 

[That Guy]

please do not take it as offensive but do you know the history of KSA and its support for wahhabism in Pakistan? we are not worried whether it would affect IPP( i mean we are concerned) but we are worried more about sectarian voilence which will be on the rise as both countries Iran and KSA will fight proxy wars in Pakistan as they did in past

Why is it that Wahhabism keeps getting blamed for everything in Pakistan and Afghanistan? Why don't people take history and geopolitics into account?

Were the 3 Anglo war in Afghanistan a failure by the British because of Wahhabism? Was the Sikh Empire destroyed because of radical Wahhabi?

It's a ridicules assumption, and I hold no respect for those that keep using the same tired old excuse and fail to actually read about the history and politics of the region.

There is no doubt that Radical Wahhabi is a problem, but the line must be drawn at some point. Needless blaming will not solve the problem, but will only ignore the real issues.

I also find it ironic that some on these forums blame Wahhabism for sectarianism, but ignore the fact that by blaming Wahhabi, they themselves are being sectarian and adding to the divisions that already exist.

As Captain Picard says, "Not again! The line must be drawn here, this far and no further!"

 

[474474]

Zaki, we have only one problem. Tax collection, and guess which province harbors majority of these tax evaders?

This Saudi package will have a gazillion catches, and in all probability we will have to pay dearly for it. A very high percentage of this "LOAN" will end up in some get-rich crazy-arsed-cathcy-yellow-cab-like-scheme and then when the party is all over, only thing standing will be "ROSHAN LAHORE", rest of the country wouldn't have changed at all.

Try not to jump to conclusions so fast.

What now, went from bashing muhajirs to punjabis?

 

[SQ8]

Our support to GCC during Iran - Iraq war? GCC never existed by than.

We did not party with any one during Iran - Iraq war.. which was an event of 80's, when Iran has good diplomatic relations with Pakistan.

From the Encyclopedia Brittanica..

Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC), political and economic alliance of six Middle Eastern countries—Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain, and Oman. The GCC was established in Riyadh, Saudia Arabia, in May 1981. The purpose of the GCC is to achieve unity among its members based on their common objectives and their similar political and cultural identities, which are rooted in Islamic beliefs. Presidency of the council rotates annually.

usually a trusted source.. but to lay it on.. since I know it wont be swallowable by you.. here it is from the GCC's own website.
http://www.gcc-sg.org/eng/index895b.html?action=Sec-Show&ID=3

On 21st Rajab 1401 AH corresponding to 25th May 1981, Their Majesties and Highnesses, the leaders of the United Arab Emirates, State of Bahrain, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Sultanate of Oman, State of Qatar and State of Kuwait met in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates, where they reached a cooperative framework joining the six states to effect coordination, integration and inter-connection among the Member States in all fields in order to achieve unity, according to article 4 of the GCC Charter. Article 4 also emphasized the deepening and strengthening of relations, links and areas of cooperation among their citizens. The underpinnings which are clearly provided for in the preamble of the GCC Charter, confirm the special relations, common qualities and similar systems founded on the creed of Islam, faith in a common destiny and sharing one goal, and that the cooperation among these states would serve the sublime objectives of the Arab nation.

Pakistan's neutrality during the Iran-Iraq war was not all neutral..
due to the presence of Pakistani troops protecting the Khadim-e-Harmain there were underlying tensions that existed..
The neutrality as well, was due to the general populace's(or rather the Pak Army troops) who would not have supported an Anti-Iran move.. moreover.. Iran was required to provide an alternative shipping points to Afghanistan.
Yes there was a certain Iran-lean towards the end of the Afghan war .. but all that ended when we continued to support Saudi backed groups in Afghanistan and this clashed with the Iranian mandate.

Do alternative theories not exist.. yes(some originate from very pro-Pakistani sites.. others from Iranians ones).
Its one's choice to ferret out whats more plausible.


So if it on Zia-ul-Haqs character.. Shall I listen to some gentlemen(whose credentials are Major rtd from logistics branch) who claims Zia was the next Hazrat Umar..or someone as accomplished as ACdre Mansoor Shah or Sajjad Haider?

 

[SQ8]

Please come to Pakistan in this summer and bear the brunt of 12-15 hours of loadshedding daily with temp soaring to 48 degrees, then if you feel this 15 billion dollar deal is unworthy, we will accept your hue and cry. It is easy to criticize while sitting in a country where you have uninterrupted power supply and summers spent their is a joy

Its horrible yes.. But then should we go the Musharraf way again and without considering alternatives in 9-11 simply decide to side all out with the US out of fear of being "bombed back to the stone age"? Or take a more adult role.

Yes its desperate and bad.. but one should look at the fine print(written and unwritten) before signing the contract.

 

[Bratva]

It would be better if you give me a workable sheet to show how Pakistan going to deal with this loan,instead of emotional swagger.

By burdening Pakistani Awam with more taxes (GST is going to increase), finishing subsidies on most items , Increasing price of electricity and making tax recovery system better.


In Short, for this short term solution, Pakistan Awam have to face the burden in long term. End result, Poverty will increase, purchasing power will decrease. Awam will be royally screwed

Its horrible yes.. But then should we go the Musharraf way again and without considering alternatives in 9-11 simply decide to side all out with the US out of fear of being "bombed back to the stone age"? Or take a more adult role.

Yes its desperate and bad.. but one should look at the fine print(written and unwritten) before signing the contract.

And that's where the concept of strong opposition kicks in, make enough noise that PML-N will have to discuss the whole deal in parliament, not like PPP who made deals with IMF and friendly opposition forgets to ask government to discuss IMF loan deal in parliament

 

[Bratva]

Meanwhile general weather condition in Australia

 

[Desert Fox]

$15 billion Saudi bailout likely

According to the official, as soon as the PML-N emerged as the majority party after the May 11 elections, the Saudi ambassador in Islamabad sought a briefing on the country’s oil requirements from the foreign ministry before calling on prime minister-designate Nawaz Sharif in Raiwind, Lahore.


You are very welcome

If he wants he can keep this 15 billion dollar bailout.

Question is, why is Abdullah giving us this aid? Saudis don't believe in Ummah, which is pretty obvious, so then why this aid?

What does Saudi gain by giving Pakistan this 15 billion dollar aid (Ummah is not a factor here)?

What do they seek in return?


Why give such a large sum of money to a country that is supposedly not important to Saudi Arabia?

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

fck man i don't like this deal. If i disgaree with PML-N on one thing, its these sort of foreign policies !

Good gesture by Saudi Arabia!!

I think we can't afford loan, it will increase pressure on coming government even deferred payment is not easy for us,
then we will always remain slave. Because to pay this, we have contact IMF for another huge loan. Also this will increase foreign interest in our matters.

Why not pipe line deal when we have good neighbor like Iran!!

 

[SQ8]

What does Saudi gain by giving Pakistan this 15 billion dollar aid (Ummah is not a factor here)?

Prepare to be labelled Biased, Sectarian and what not for asking this question.

 

[Tiger Awan]

14 pages of speculation

 

[Pakistanisage]

You're being to overly dramatic and over thinking things.

Pakistan needs help with it's economy, it has little choice but to accept whatever help it can get. Don't add a third angle to this, when the third angle here doesn't exist. Saudi Arabia needs a reliable partner to help with it's internal security and keep regional players in check, and Pakistan needs economic help. Remember, it's not just Iran that Saudi Arabia was concerned about, but the UAE as well, which is an Arab federation. It only makes sense for the two sides to offer what they have, in exchange for the other's services. It's good old bartering system, can't go wrong with that.



If you bothered to read the article, then you'd know that this won't affect the pipeline much. Both Pakistan and Iran have put too much into it to back out now. Nawaz Sharif can't go back on the pipeline, unless he wants to commit political-suicide.

The most this can do is help Pakistan renegotiate gas prices with Iran.

This is why it is important for Pakistan to have both IP and TAPI so we can negotiate for the Gas price. IP alone will be a monopoly and not good for Pakistan from a negotiation point ( as Pakistan would be in a weaker position to negotiate).

Also, Pakistanis should keep in mind that this Iran Pakistan Pipeline will only provide enough gas to produce 4000 megawatts of Electricity ( which is only half of our total shortfall of Electricity).