14th August v/s 15th august

[RazPaK]

I repeat, as patiently as I can, there was no trace of this language in Harappa. Or Mohenjodaro. Or Lothal. Or anywhere else.



We are doing it. Unless you are under the impression that this discussion is about topology.

You tell me what was the language of Harrapa.

Was it Tamil?

 

[Joe Shearer]

It is a linguistic categorization of the Indo-Euro peoples.

In no way does it prove who came from who, but the fact that the earliest traces of evidence were found in Harrapa, speaks for itself.

Heh. Obviously you don't read everything in front of you, not unless it fits in.

There is NO evidence of any connection between the Indus Valley civilisation and Indo-Aryan or Sanskrit. I have mentioned this before. This is your cue to say,"Oh yeah? then what about this?" Go ahead, we've only discussed this about a dozen times so far on PDF. There's room for some more.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

There is NO evidence of any connection between the Indus Valley civilisation and Indo-Aryan or Sanskrit. I have mentioned this before

But there's no way to disprove it either is there? Chances are they did speak Proto-Indo-European descendant languages, or related

 

[Joe Shearer]

You tell me what was the language of Harrapa.

Was it Tamil?

I am genuinely startled. There is some evidence that emerged very recently, within the last five years. However, it was a newspaper report, and I have no record about it.

Apparently some researchers in an academy of mathematics in Chennai tried to match the pattern sequences of the symbols on the Indus Valley seals with patterns of words in various existing Indian languages. They were none of them Tamil themselves, in spite of being researchers in a Chennai based organisation. They found that the closest pattern matching occurred between the symbol sequences and Tamil.

This is far from being proof, but there is indirect support for this.

I have no view on this, except to believe that attempts to link it to Sanskrit are grossly premature, and in some cases, motivated.

 

[RazPaK]

Heh. Obviously you don't read everything in front of you, not unless it fits in.

There is NO evidence of any connection between the Indus Valley civilisation and Indo-Aryan or Sanskrit. I have mentioned this before. This is your cue to say,"Oh yeah? then what about this?" Go ahead, we've only discussed this about a dozen times so far on PDF. There's room for some more.

Ok man. Whatever you say. IVC has absolutely nothing to do with Hinduism, whatsoever.

 

[Joe Shearer]

But there's no way to disprove it either is there? Chances are they did speak Proto-Indo-European descendant languages, or related

Very true, just as there is no way to disprove that they spoke Chinese. There are few or no chances that they spoke a PIE descendant language, as the only PIE languages in that region, which overlapped with the final stages of the valley civilisation, were Indo-Iranian, followed by central Iranian, from which Sogdian, Bactrian and Parthian emerged, and Indo-Aryan (some call this Indic, but the term has such strong political overtones that it is not a pleasant one to use).

Strangely, it was not east Iranian (or north-east Iranian, the language of the Scythians, because that seems to have remained behind among the steppe-dwellers).

Ok man. Whatever you say. IVC has absolutely nothing to do with Hinduism, whatsoever.

I never said that. I said that there's no proof.

.....Because Sanskrit itself had ancestors? lol, make sense in your questions atleast.
Oldest language? Dunno, and neither does anyone else.

Sanskrit, in case you didn't know, was not a descendant of Indo-Aryan, but a codification of the rules and their permanent closure to change. In that sense, it is co-eval with Indo-Aryan.

I am sorry I am not making sense. I will try to be simpler in future.

IVC came from Kerala, I am supporting this

Thank you.

Your contribution is VERY valuable. As are you.

 

[RazPaK]

I never said that. I said that there's no proof.

Exactly, there is no proof.

So let's save each other time by not dancing around in circles, instead of giving each other the "absence of proof is not proof of absence" axiom.

 

[RVS_108]

there is difference between creation of pakistan(not liberation of Pakistan) and Independence of INDIA , i mean 15 August is not a birthday of INDIA rather a Liberation or a Independence DAY of INDIA .

 

[Joe Shearer]

The people of IVC spoke a language called Proto-Indic, developed form Proto Indo-European language
Languages like Sanskrit and Pali developed out of it, centuries upon centuries later, as the population spread eastwards

BTW, Hinduism is a collection of various practices, cultures, myths, stories, poems and beliefs that were present at the time of Arab invasions. They then named you "Hindus", because the first river in the region they came across was the Indus river (even though most Hindus worship Ganges not Indus)

We taught you that old religion, and have moved on. Perhaps it's time for you guys to update as well.

Exactly, there is no proof.

So let's save each other time by not dancing around in circles, instead of giving each other the "absence of proof is not proof of absence" axiom.

Since there is no proof that the IVC had anything to do with Hinduism, your statement was wrong. Which is what I originally commented. Now that you understand that there is no proof, and therefore such an assertion as yours is wholly untenable, let us move back to the topic. Unless, of course, you have some more doubts.

 

[RazPaK]

Since there is no proof that the IVC had anything to do with Hinduism, your statement was wrong. Which is what I originally commented. Now that you understand that there is no proof, and therefore such an assertion as yours is wholly untenable, let us move back to the topic. Unless, of course, you have some more doubts.

First you would have to prove how we did not?

Right?

As of now there is no evidence to support my statement is incorrect either.


Two can play at this game, mister.

 

[Tamizhan]

This thread should have been closed after this post.

The signing off of some papers for Pakistan was done on 14th August, for India on 15th August.

Celebrations kicked off on the 14th, when Lord Mountbaten came here on that day, it was planned for the 15th initially but since he couldn't be in both places at once he came to Pakistan a day earlier to formally hand it over. Although on documents it was written 15th but practically it was 14th.

 

[BJP*]

Ok man. Whatever you say. IVC has absolutely nothing to do with Hinduism, whatsoever.

Here are some Lines from Wikipedia about relation of IVC and hinduism:

In the aftermath of the Indus Civilization's collapse, regional cultures emerged, to varying degrees showing the influence of the Indus Civilization. In the formerly great city of Harappa, burials have been found that correspond to a regional culture called the Cemetery H culture. At the same time, the Ochre Coloured Pottery culture expanded from Rajasthan into the Gangetic Plain. The Cemetery H culture has the earliest evidence for cremation, a practice dominant in Hinduism till today

Some Indus valley seals show swastikas, which are found in other religions (worldwide), especially in Indian religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. The earliest evidence for elements of Hinduism are alleged to have been present before and during the early Harappan period.[60] Phallic symbols interpreted as the much later Hindu Shiva lingam have been found in the Harappan remains.[61][62]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/IndusValleySeals_swastikas.JPG/220px-IndusValleySeals_swastikas.JPG

NOTE : There is no trace of Islam in this civilization, Heights of stupidity and illogical ideas, Pakistanis still have face to claim IVC. Pakistanis are free to claim Arab civilization and religion.

 

[Joe Shearer]

A point in general.

In International Law, India was taken as the successor state, and all the treaty obligations and rights that had been accrued by the British Crown Colony were assumed by her. This is in direct line with the wording and the formulation of the Independence of India Act. Sir Zafrullah Khan fought a brilliant but unsuccessful battle in the United Nations, arguing that Pakistan need not be given separate admission, as she was already a member, by dint of British India being a member. The Secretariat took a decision against this stand. partly because the British testified that in terms of their act, Pakistan was a newly-formed state, formed by separating out certain portions of British India and amalgamating them.

The point was made in an earlier post.

Secondly, on the date of celebration, there is no doubt from his published thoughts on the subject, that Jinnah, strict constitutionalist that he was, always held that Pakistan was independent on the 15th of August. It is another matter that the flag-hoisting and the handing over of charge from the Viceroy of India to the Governor General of Pakistan had to be done a day earlier, as Mountbatten plainly wanted to be in Delhi on the 15th. It is yet another matter that subsequent celebrations have been on the 14th of August. This is fine from the celebratory point of view. A celebration might happen at any time. Even the flag-hoisting on the 14th was perfectly in order, being symbolic in nature. Not unless Jinnah had ordered the military or the civil service to do something drastic on the 14th was he likely to be refused, but if he had done so (impossible, given what a stickler he was for the law), he would have been acting beyond his powers, and if he had been obeyed, that would have been an illegal act.

The 11:30/12:00 noon business was not germane. As far as I remember, the celebrations in Karachi presided over by Jinnah took place some time in the afternoon of the 14th. I say this from memory, and I may be wrong. Yasser Latif Hamdani had, I think, printed a picture of that first flag-hoisting on PTH, and it was an open-air, daytime ceremony.

First you would have to prove how we did not?

Right?

As of now there is no evidence to support my statement is incorrect either.


Two can play at this game, mister.

No, two cannot play at this game, not when one is playing without a full set of marbles. That one is not I.

When a person makes an assertion, it is for him to prove his assertion, not for others to disprove it.

So much for your silly statement. Now read on beyond your post to see how the bigots come dancing and prancing into action based on your foolish and baseless assertion.

 

[A1Kaid]

Its really heartening to know Pakistani media has a lot of following in India as well

They are obsessed with Pakistan. Their lives revolve around Pakistan. Every morning when they wake up the word Pakistan pops into their heard and before going to sleep as well. They watch Pakistani tv programs in fact they know more about Najam Sethi and Zahid Hamid and other tv personalities more than Pakistanis do.

In fact they even know the current weather in Pakistani cities. So I have come to expect it.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Phallic symbols interpreted as the much later Hindu Shiva lingam have been found in the Harappan remains

NOTE : There is no trace of Islam in this civilization, Heights of stupidity and illogical ideas, Pakistanis still have face to claim IVC. Pakistanis are free to claim Arab civilization and religion.

1) Lol haha, phallic symbols..
hey, you know what phallic means?

2) Technically we know that Islam didn't exist in India until the Arabs came over a thousand years ago. But did you know that in Islam we are thought that over 124000 prophets were sent to manking all over the world before the last prophet (the seal) came and ended the line?
All those prophets teached about One God, and thus submitting your will to that One God, hence being "Muslim"
Muslim = One who submits his will to God

So going by that logic, there's high chances Islam (in ancient forms) did exist that IVC