111 Brigade the time is Nigh!!!

[Solomon2]

How would you handle democratic America if New York TV talk shows were openly supporting and condoning neo-Nazis?

Confront them in open debate.

What if (God forbid) Congress and president utterly fail to stop neo-Nazis and ex slave holders rounding up jews and blacks and killing them?

That's what the Second Amendment is meant for. The example of King James II, who (most Englishmen feared) tried to use his office to impose "Catholic" rule was instructive. America's Founding Fathers therefore did not vest the safety of the people wholly in the hands of the State.

Nevertheless, it took a century after post-Civil War Reconstruction ended for the federal government to once again step in, end legal segregation, and stop institutions like the Ku Kux Klan from wielding oppressive power through government and extra-legal means in the South. That happened first because American society in general - white society, that is - couldn't tolerate such a system and worked to oppose it publicly and undermine it secretly (see Superman vs. the Klan.) Politicians then grabbed at the trend and stepped to the fore. Some, like Senator-for-life Strom Thurmond, changed sides completely. Hence the importance of grass-roots movements to get the ball rolling.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Confront them in open debate.

ha!

How many jews got to have "open debate" with Nazis? be it in USA or Germany.

How many Malalas can have "open debate" in swat with the beardo guy bearing down with an AK-47

How many open debates with Hamas and Hizubllah have been possible.

We had our open debate with Lal masjid Islamists for years.



Nothing worked

and finally we had to do what Americans did against David Kuresh (or other guys like him).

This is the dire situation we are talking about .

Decades of debates and appeasement has only emboldened the Islamists.

So please understand no one is talking about the destruction of political institutions in Pakistan.

It is precisely opposite.

What we are saying that political institutions will commit suicide if they continue to appease the Islamist jihadi clowns and having open debates with them.


Thank you

 

[Developereo]

hard and unpopular decisions are the test of the leadership and they never get popular support. but they have to be done. its the easy and favourable ideas that will get popular support.

in short my take is... This democracy is not interested in fulfilling the basic obligation of peace and security of its Population and is counting days to make a last departure to its offshore fortunes while its electorate will be beheaded, blown up, raped and mutilated.

That's the story of Pakistan.

The political stage is dominated by opportunistic partisanship where every player is more interested in scoring points against their opponent than in honestly solving national problems.

So we will muddle along, for if any one side shows leadership, their rivals will undercut them to score cheap political points.

 

[FaujHistorian]

@Irfan Baloch
Irfan sb 111 brigade and all this coup calls can only be wishful thinking of yours or some Lal Topi character but its not the ground reality. The military is so heavily and complexly bogged down in problems and any misadventure like coup or takeover would definitely prove to be the last nail in the coffin of the Pakistani state as it exists today and they also know this very well. Mark my words sir if there's any military misadventure against the political govt it would lead to lead to open rebellion by the common Baloch against Pakistani state and immediate UN/NATO intervention.

Faqeer bhai

no one is talking about the ACTUAL takeover by military

It is just a nightmare scenario that politicians will muck up so bad that people will be in the street clamoring for the military rule.


you have to view it from the bottom up scenario and not top down

 

[jaunty]

I may be wrong here but @Irfan Baloch weren't you a PTI supporter before the elections?

 

[Tameem]

I may be wrong here but @Irfan Baloch weren't you a PTI supporter before the elections?

Exactly, In all these four pages, he shows relentlessly his inner hate towards Sharifs, more than towards Taliban.

Irfan Sahib, the column you are balbaling about is not written by Irfan Siddiqi

Stop spreading rumors machines.

 

[Solomon2]

ha!
how many jews got to have "open debate" with Nazis? be it in USA or Germany.

I think in Germany the Jews' approach was to hunker down and hope to survive the storm; they did not realize the storm was targeting them, not their actions.

There was opposition to the Nazis, both from Jewish and non-Jewish Germans. Most of these people vanished in concentration camps in the mid-1930s or fled abroad. If they escaped abroad, they could continue to speak against the Nazi regime, and when war came offer their services to the Allies.

How many Malalas can have "open debate" in swat with the beardo guy bearing down with an AK-47

Oh, such a debate doesn't have to be in person, any more than the debates we have here.

How many open debates with Hamas and Hizubllah have been possible.

There's a good point. Debates with Israel's opponents are difficult because they repeatedly mis-state facts or misrepresent Zionist's opinions and policies. However, the Zionist audience knows that, while the anti-Zionists don't care about facts if they fail to support their goals.

and finally we had to do what Americans did against David Kuresh (or other guys like him). This is the dire situation we are talking about .

Both political and physical courage are called for by leaders in such situations.

Decades of debates and appeasement has only emboldened the Islamists...What we are saying that political institutions will commit suicide if they continue to appease the Islamist jihadi clowns and having open debates with them.

I suggest debate, don't appease, pointing out that Islamists' failure in debate is also a failure of their legitimacy. They may respond that "power flows out of the barrel of a gun" (as the Maoists do) but then they've pretty much authorized Pakistanis to go to war against them, yes?

Of course, I'm not certain this sort of approach will work in Pakistan. There are generations of moral corruption that must be challenged, not without personal risk, including the willingness to fight and die in battle to uphold values. But the days are over when you could engage the Brits to overthrow an oppressive tyrant, and any hope that American armed forces could physically intervene - as in WWII Germany and Japan - vanished with (1) Pakistan's development of nuclear weapons and (2) Pakistan's unconstructive attitude (as contrasted with Yemen, for example.)

So you're going to have to travel the path out of hell by yourselves. I can only suggest different routes; it's up to you which way to turn, or else fall further into the abyss.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Confront them in open debate.

That's what the Second Amendment is meant for. The example of King James II, who (most Englishmen feared) tried to use his office to impose "Catholic" rule was instructive. America's Founding Fathers therefore did not vest the safety of the people wholly in the hands of the State.

Nevertheless, it took a century after post-Civil War Reconstruction ended for the federal government to once again step in, end legal segregation, and stop institutions like the Ku Kux Klan from wielding oppressive power through government and extra-legal means in the South. That happened first because American society in general - white society, that is - couldn't tolerate such a system and worked to oppose it publicly and undermine it secretly (see Superman vs. the Klan.) Politicians then grabbed at the trend and stepped to the fore. Some, like Senator-for-life Strom Thurmond, changed sides completely. Hence the importance of grass-roots movements to get the ball rolling.

I didnt mean to put words in your mouth reference to his questions but hypothetically speaking
such situation would never have come to pass in USA
the electorate wont have elected such spineless & clueless leadership
people would have distinguished between friends and foes
the US military wont have been apologetic in its operations against the fascists

Exactly, In all these four pages, he shows relentlessly his inner hate towards Sharifs, more than towards Taliban.

Irfan Sahib, the column you are balbaling about is not written by Irfan Siddiqi

Stop spreading rumors machines.

thanks for coming to rescue for your Irfan Sadique. you and he took their time to deny that. we would be the happiest if this column is proven to be a fake. but what say eh? in current times people say and write things and it bites back their asses... its really hard to deny it.. which paper does he normally write to? looks like it was a news paper article.


while we are at it.. has the lShabaz Sherif Khadim e Ala ,denied the media report where he called Taliban his brothers asking them not to target Punjab? must be a rumour too ?

 

[Cheetah786]

I may be wrong here but @Irfan Baloch weren't you a PTI supporter before the elections?

Imran Khan was saying all the right things and offered a hope of change before the elections, but right after the elections he changed into Taliban Khan.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I may be wrong here but @Irfan Baloch weren't you a PTI supporter before the elections?

I am Pakistan supporter, I am ultra nationalist Baloch and very conservative, I admire Imran for many things and I also liked Nawaz as well.. I respect Molana Modudi's work in the Islamic jurisprudence as well and I admire Gen Zia and I also respect Bhutto too and i like Musharraf for EVERY single reason he is constantly criticised by Talibanized society.


in all such cases where their work and contribution was for the state of Pakistan.


still with me??

 

[jaunty]

Imran Khan was saying all the right things and offered a hope of change before the elections, but right after the elections he changed into Taliban Khan.

But he has always been against military action and pro talk. If I am not mistaken this was his position even before the elections. What is the difference now?

 

[Tameem]

I didnt mean to put words in your mouth reference to his questions but hypothetically speaking
such situation would never have come to pass in USA
the electorate wont have elected such spineless & clueless leadership
people would have distinguished between friends and foes
the US military wont have been apologetic in its operations against the fascists




thanks for coming to rescue for your Irfan Sadique. you and he took their time to deny that. we would be the happiest if this column is proven to be a fake. but what say eh? in current times people say and write things and it bites back their asses... its really hard to deny it.. which paper does he normally write to? looks like it was a news paper article.


while we are at it.. has the lShabaz Sherif Khadim e Ala ,denied the media report where he called Taliban his brothers asking them not to target Punjab? must be a rumour too ?

Yes Shahbaz Sharif is wrong there in absolute terms. But my dear its the PA who nurture these barbarians in the first place for decades and jeopardize civilian authority on any matter since our inception.......that is too condemn-able in absolute terms as well......say yes.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I think in Germany the Jews' approach was to hunker down and hope to survive the storm; they did not realize the storm was targeting them, not their actions.

There was opposition to the Nazis, both from Jewish and non-Jewish Germans. Most of these people vanished in concentration camps in the mid-1930s or fled abroad. If they escaped abroad, they could continue to speak against the Nazi regime, and when war came offer their services to the Allies.

Oh, such a debate doesn't have to be in person, any more than the debates we have here.

There's a good point. Debates with Israel's opponents are difficult because they repeatedly mis-state facts or misrepresent Zionist's opinions and policies. However, the Zionist audience knows that, while the anti-Zionists don't care about facts if they fail to support their goals.

Both political and physical courage are called for by leaders in such situations.

I suggest debate, don't appease, pointing out that Islamists' failure in debate is also a failure of their legitimacy. They may respond that "power flows out of the barrel of a gun" (as the Maoists do) but then they've pretty much authorized Pakistanis to go to war against them, yes?

Of course, I'm not certain this sort of approach will work in Pakistan. There are generations of moral corruption that must be challenged, not without personal risk, including the willingness to fight and die in battle to uphold values. But the days are over when you could engage the Brits to overthrow an oppressive tyrant, and any hope that American armed forces could physically intervene - as in WWII Germany and Japan - vanished with (1) Pakistan's development of nuclear weapons and (2) Pakistan's unconstructive attitude (as contrasted with Yemen, for example.)

So you're going to have to travel the path out of hell by yourselves. I can only suggest different routes; it's up to you which way to turn, or else fall further into the abyss.

In some ways our malalas and our young generations is struggling against deeply entrenched Islamist belief system not too different from the James Earl Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael "Mickey" Schwerner.

Those 3 were the martyrs in the cause of freedom and justice against the tyranny of Southern white supremacists.

peace

Yes Shahbaz Sharif is wrong there in absolute terms. But my dear its the PA who nurture these barbarians in the first place for decades and jeopardize civilian authority on any matter since our inception.......that is too condemn-able in absolute terms as well......say yes.

This barbaric behavior in SW and NW existed in 1940s too.

Where there is no Pak army.

Quit shifting the blame please.

 

[Tameem]

This barbaric behavior in SW and NW existed in 1940s too.

Where there is no Pak army.

Quit shifting the blame please.

The point My dear is.....When an Absolute Authority (PA) compromises on its fundamental duty for too long than there is no way to blame politician to follow suit as well.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Yes Shahbaz Sharif is wrong there in absolute terms. But my dear its the PA who nurture these barbarians in the first place for decades and jeopardize civilian authority on any matter since our inception.......that is too condemn-able in absolute terms as well......say yes.

totally agree and I condemn that policy
sins of our fathers are paid in blood by the children of today