11 things you didn't know about India's LCA fighter jet

[Shadow_Hunter]

everything is foreign in this junk aircraft. they are still comparing this to 1950's mig-21 speaks for itself. also after every landing lca has to change its entire landing gear because it is an use and throw landing gear. in war time they will be changing landing gear instead of fighting.

They taught you this in your madarssa right? PAkistani brainwashing knows no bounds.

13. foreign design, foreign engines, foreign radar, foreign avionics, foreign weaponaries, with 30 years just made an empty shell which still has a permanent problem of overweight.

You look so cute when you try so hard.

Trust me , the initial operating clearance merely means a certification for air worthiness by the standard definition , just that the aircraft is available now in its minimally deployable form , combat worthiness is something else , the aircraft hasn't finished testing of different missiles/bombs which are to be integrated to the extent that even the gun isn't available yet . A really few weapons that can be fired and a fuctioning radar for now aren't the criteria for combat worthiness . Also , it appears from the data that several specification haven't been met until now or scaled down to pave way for early induction , you see the IOC - II was planned a little later . These aren't the "modifications" , far from it , just the envisioned specifications and no , they aren't talking about Block 2 here . The Tejas still has to get a long way before it can get operational and become combat worthy . As for the interview where the personnel stated it as such , can I have the link ?

P.S I got the context of your post just fine , that is why I said not to get carried away .

The problem is you simply don't understand the induction process of Tejas. which is clear from your previous post, you don't even know that AoA of 24 degree has been already achieved and it will be increased to 28 degree by FOC. It is true that a lot of work still remains. However that doesn't mean IOC-2 was planned a little later. If I ask you a for a source regarding the same, you won't be able to provide it. So research before making a fool of yourself.

 

[Secur]

The problem is you simply don't understand the induction process of Tejas. which is clear from your previous post, you don't even know that AoA of 24 degree has been already achieved and it will be increased to 28 degree by FOC. It is true that a lot of work still remains. However that doesn't mean IOC-2 was planned a little later. If I ask you a for a source regarding the same, you won't be able to provide it. So research before making a fool of yourself.

Is it so unique by any chance , that a person starts having difficulty understanding it seriously ? What I know is that the aircraft has been granted " Initial Operating Clearance " by the relevant authorities but a lot of work remains to be done . The induction today is largely ceremonial and symbolic because a lot of envisioned criteria/specification are being worked upon and haven't been met - for instance the gun hasn't been tested yet , there are missiles which are to be test fired and validated e.t.c . As for the Angle Of Attack increase , are you sure that it's somehow any upgrade or merely what was proposed for the aircraft in the first place when the IAF revised its requirements for the aircraft ? I think its the latter . As for the IOC-II thing , I made an assumption seeing this thing .

Sources confirm that the Ministry of Defence has made it clear to both Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) that the IOC-2 deadline won’t be extended anymore. The IAF pilots will formally get to fly Tejas after the IOC-2 declaration.

Tejas trials fast-tracked to meet deadline -The New Indian Express

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Is it so unique by any chance , that a person starts having difficulty understanding it seriously ? What I know is that the aircraft has been granted " Initial Operating Clearance " by the relevant authorities but a lot of work remains to be done . The induction today is largely ceremonial and symbolic because a lot of envisioned criteria/specification are being worked upon and haven't been met - for instance the gun hasn't been tested yet , there are missiles which are to be test fired and validated e.t.c . As for the Angle Of Attack increase , are you sure that it's somehow any upgrade or merely what was proposed for the aircraft in the first place when the IAF revised its requirements for the aircraft ? I think its the latter . As for the IOC-II thing , I made an assumption seeing this thing .

Sources confirm that the Ministry of Defence has made it clear to both Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) that the IOC-2 deadline won’t be extended anymore. The IAF pilots will formally get to fly Tejas after the IOC-2 declaration.

Tejas trials fast-tracked to meet deadline -The New Indian Express

Again you are calling it ceremonial without fully understanding the implications. It would have been ceremonial had no changes to programme would have been done after IOC-2. However significance of IOC-2 is:
1. mro and employment manuals have been handed over
2. pilot training will start now
3. the series production will start now
4. TACDE should its work as well on tactics

Since these activities have started, we can say that IOC-2 is not ceremonial. WVR missile has been fired both using hmd and radar.

As for gun and AoA, yes its what IAF proposed in the first place. But what you don't understand is that just because an AoA of 28 degrees hasn't been achieved doesn't mean Tejas cannot do it. It simply means that it has not conducted enough test flights demonstrating 28 degree AoA that cemilac can certify it for the same. Same with bvr missiles and everything. Tejas in its current form is capable of doing everything. No further development is required. Only testing and certification will be done in FOC phase.

As for the last link. It doesn't mean IOC is ceremonial. It simply means that Tejas was fast tracked. If you compare the number of test flights of Tejas in 2013 as compared to any previous year, you will understand this point yourself.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Is it so unique by any chance , that a person starts having difficulty understanding it seriously ? What I know is that the aircraft has been granted " Initial Operating Clearance " by the relevant authorities but a lot of work remains to be done . The induction today is largely ceremonial and symbolic because a lot of envisioned criteria/specification are being worked upon and haven't been met - for instance the gun hasn't been tested yet , there are missiles which are to be test fired and validated e.t.c . As for the Angle Of Attack increase , are you sure that it's somehow any upgrade or merely what was proposed for the aircraft in the first place when the IAF revised its requirements for the aircraft ? I think its the latter . As for the IOC-II thing , I made an assumption seeing this thing .

Sources confirm that the Ministry of Defence has made it clear to both Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) that the IOC-2 deadline won’t be extended anymore. The IAF pilots will formally get to fly Tejas after the IOC-2 declaration.

Tejas trials fast-tracked to meet deadline -The New Indian Express

Surprisingly; you are displaying a lot of unfamiliarity with the facts. The basic requirements have been met hence Initial Operational Clearance has been granted. If you read the various reports including the interviews/statements of the various functionaries associated with the Project (IAF or ADA) you may get clearer on this.

About AOA; that did not need an upgrade in the sense of hardware. The FCLAWS had to be progressively and iteratively tweaked. That was done after a cycle of flights, monitoring, analysis, re-adjustment a number of times; and the requirement was achieved.

You need to re-visit the facts to correct your speculative impressions.

 

[Secur]

As for the last link. It doesn't mean IOC is ceremonial. It simply means that Tejas was fast tracked. If you compare the number of test flights of Tejas in 2013 as compared to any previous year, you will understand this point yourself.

Do you understand what I mean by the word " ceremonial " ? The aircraft isn't yet able to do what it was intended to do . This is a common induction process for most other aircraft , no disagreement there . I didn't say that it was a wrong thing to do , just " symbolic " since the specifications haven't been met , only a few missiles can be fired at the moment and there are only a handful of the LCA handed over to IAF . @Capt.Popeye Again for IOC-II , the authorities made it clear that the deadline wont be extended anymore , hence the fast tracking and from what I made my assumption . What is so offensive about it , anyways , since the aircraft will get Final Operating Clearance in 2015 anyways ?

Tejas in its current form is capable of doing everything.

Not really , a lot of sources would disagree too . There is further development apart from testing/certification/validation in progress at the moment .

1. Expand flight envelope to -3.5 to 8G (Currently -2 to 6G).
2. 24° angle of attack (Currently 22°).
3. In-flight refuelling capability (Integration of Cobham probe complete).
4. Demonstration of Rafael ADS Derby BVR air-to-air missile.
5. Demonstration of Rafael ADS Python-5 IIR close combat missile (Related post here).
6. Completion of integration & demonstration of KBP Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23 23mm cannon.
7. New design drop tanks for supersonic flight.
8. New radome to improve radar and electromagnetic performance.
9. Validate more efficient cooling system for aircraft braking assembly.
10. Additional weapons testing, including PGMs.
Livefist: What It'll Take For India's Tejas To Be FULLY Ready

About AOA; that did not need an upgrade in the sense of hardware. The FCLAWS had to be progressively and iteratively tweaked. That was done after a cycle of flights, monitoring, analysis, re-adjustment a number of times; and the requirement was achieved.

I get it just fine , didn't say that it was a hardware upgrade , just that a specification is being met .

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Do you understand what I mean by the word " ceremonial " ? The aircraft isn't yet able to do what it was intended to do . This is a common induction process for most other aircraft , no disagreement there . I didn't say that it was a wrong thing to do , just " symbolic " since the specifications haven't been met , only a few missiles can be fired at the moment and there are only a handful of the LCA handed over to IAF . What is so offensive about it , anyways ?



Not really . There is further development apart from testing/certification/validation in progress at the moment .

1. Expand flight envelope to -3.5 to 8G (Currently -2 to 6G).
2. 24° angle of attack (Currently 22°).
3. In-flight refuelling capability (Integration of Cobham probe complete).
4. Demonstration of Rafael ADS Derby BVR air-to-air missile.
5. Demonstration of Rafael ADS Python-5 IIR close combat missile (Related post here).
6. Completion of integration & demonstration of KBP Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23 23mm cannon.
7. New design drop tanks for supersonic flight.
8. New radome to improve radar and electromagnetic performance.
9. Validate more efficient cooling system for aircraft braking assembly.
10. Additional weapons testing, including PGMs.
Livefist: What It'll Take For India's Tejas To Be FULLY Ready

This is not related to aircraft itself but its specific components. These problems appear with every aircraft. F22 has a problem in its OBOGS, does it mean that it is not fully operational capable? That braking system bit is already done by the way. The journo doesn't know what he is talking about. Anyways believe what you want. One cannot change the assumptions of an ignorant person. If you had simply read the documents ADA and cemilac have released over time, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[rockstarIN]

I wasn't talking about FOC here . You are right about the pattern of induction of majority of aircraft in this way , didn't make them such as far I see it , but exactly what is combat worthiness then as per you ? The answer I am getting is that Initial Operating Clearance equals that and this I disagree with , since its just a certificate awarded to the aircraft which can , can go "airborne" safely - the most basic definition .

As for EF, look at how they categorize,

Tranche 1
Block 1
Initial Operational Capability, Basic Air Defence Capability
Block 2
Air-to-air capabilities
Block 5
Air-to-air and air-to-ground capabilities, Final Operational Capability (FOC) standard. All Tranche 1 aircraft are being upgraded to Block 5 capability through the R2 retrofit programme.
Entry into service
On 4 August 2003, Germany accepted the first series production Eurofighter (GT003).[140] Also that year, Spain took delivery of its first series production aircraft.[141]

On 16 December 2005, the Typhoon reached initial operational capability (IOC) with the Italian Air Force. Its Typhoons were put into service as air defence fighters at Grosseto Air Base, and immediately assigned to Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) at the same base.[142]

On 9 August 2007, the UK's Ministry of Defence reported that No. 11 Squadron RAF of the RAF, which stood up as a Typhoon squadron on 29 March 2007, had taken delivery of its first two multi-role Typhoons.[143] Two of 11 Squadron's Typhoons were sent to intercept a Russian Tupolev Tu-95 approaching British airspace on 17 August 2007.[144] The RAF Typhoons were declared combat ready in the air-to-ground role by 1 July 2008.[145] The RAF Typhoons were projected to be ready to deploy for operations by mid-2008.[143]

On 11 September 2008, the combined flying time of the five customer Air Forces and the industrial Flight Test programme saw aircraft pass the 50,000 flight hours milestone.[146] On 31 March 2009, a Eurofighter Typhoon fired an AMRAAM whilst having its radar in passive mode for the first time; the necessary target data for the missile was acquired by the radar of a second Eurofighter Typhoon and transmitted using the Multi Functional Information Distribution System (MIDS).[147] In January 2011, the entire Typhoon fleet passed the 100,000 flying hours mark .[148] In September 2013, the worldwide Eurofighter fleet achieved over 200,000 flight hours. At the time, 378 aircraft had been delivered, with 571 on order

 

[Secur]

This is not related to aircraft itself but its specific components. These problems appear with every aircraft. F22 has a problem in its OBOGS, does it mean that it is not fully operational capable? That braking system bit is already done by the way. The journo doesn't know what he is talking about. Anyways believe what you want. One cannot change the assumptions of an ignorant person. If you had simply read the documents ADA and cemilac have released over time, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

If you had read my post in the right context instead of assuming that I was somehow trying to belittle this thing , we wouldn't be bothering ourselves with this conversation right now . The specific components are related to the aircraft and there is further development/testing/validation being carried out still , a normal practice before the Light Combat Aircraft gets Final Operating Clearance , otherwise why wouldn't it get the final certification now instead of IOC-II ? . Maybe , you can post a better source in such case . I had another one posted here which mentioned the same thing .

As for EF, look at how they categorize,

Why convince a convinced man ?

You are right about the pattern of induction of majority of aircraft in this way-Secur
Post#41

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Do you understand what I mean by the word " ceremonial " ? The aircraft isn't yet able to do what it was intended to do . This is a common induction process for most other aircraft , no disagreement there . I didn't say that it was a wrong thing to do , just " symbolic " since the specifications haven't been met , only a few missiles can be fired at the moment and there are only a handful of the LCA handed over to IAF . @Capt.Popeye Again for IOC-II , the authorities made it clear that the deadline wont be extended anymore , hence the fast tracking and from what I made my assumption . What is so offensive about it , anyways , since the aircraft will get Final Operating Clearance in 2015 anyways ?



Not really , a lot of sources would disagree too . There is further development apart from testing/certification/validation in progress at the moment .

1. Expand flight envelope to -3.5 to 8G (Currently -2 to 6G).
2. 24° angle of attack (Currently 22°).
3. In-flight refuelling capability (Integration of Cobham probe complete).
4. Demonstration of Rafael ADS Derby BVR air-to-air missile.
5. Demonstration of Rafael ADS Python-5 IIR close combat missile (Related post here).
6. Completion of integration & demonstration of KBP Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23 23mm cannon.
7. New design drop tanks for supersonic flight.
8. New radome to improve radar and electromagnetic performance.
9. Validate more efficient cooling system for aircraft braking assembly.
10. Additional weapons testing, including PGMs.
Livefist: What It'll Take For India's Tejas To Be FULLY Ready



I get it just fine , didn't say that it was a hardware upgrade , just that a specification is being met .

You are just regurgitating the same old stuff to cover your usage of the term of "ceremonial induction".

The IOC has achieved its objective; i.e. to allow the IAF pilots to now fly the aircraft as well as IAF technicians to be involved in its operational maintenance and offer their own inputs to clear the requirements of the FOC.

There is nothing "ceremonial" about it.


.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

If you had read my post in the right context instead of assuming that I was somehow trying to belittle this thing , we wouldn't be bothering ourselves with this conversation right now . The specific components are related to the aircraft and there is further development/testing/validation being carried out still , a normal practice before the Light Combat Aircraft gets Final Operating Clearance , otherwise why wouldn't it get the final certification now instead of IOC-II ? . Maybe , you can post a better source in such case . I had another one posted here which mentioned the same thing .

I already said everything. FOC cannot be provided since testing and validation is not complete. However development is complete. Otherwise which fool will clear Tejas for production if development was still pending. The problems with radome and and other components have indeed surfaced, but they are not a problem of aircraft itself. The aircraft can go along with production and can be even deployed in wartime with the current radome. It is already getting a range of 50 km with the current radome. New radome is only required in BVR situation. and it can be changed anytime.

Another way to look at things is apart from AoA, all performance parameters of aircraft have been met. All the other points are related to operational deployment, that the gun has not been integrated doesn't mean aircraft is not capable of integrating it. Getting my point?

Anyways last post from my side now. I have clarified enough things.

 

[Janmejay]

everything is foreign in this junk aircraft. they are still comparing this to 1950's mig-21 speaks for itself. also after every landing lca has to change its entire landing gear because it is an use and throw landing gear. in war time they will be changing landing gear instead of fighting.

Yeah and we will cut your country again with this junk plane.......

 

[Secur]

There is nothing "ceremonial" about it.

Depends on one's definition , Captain . I have presented my reasons above , yes the IOC has achieved its purpose and the aircraft has been handed over .

I already said everything. FOC cannot be provided since testing and validation is not complete. However development is complete. Otherwise which fool will clear Tejas for production if development was still pending. The problems with radome and and other components have indeed surfaced, but they are not a problem of aircraft itself.

You are right about the final Block-I version ready to go in production . They are related to the aircraft and the further development in them will iron out the problems they are currently facing , again where's the confusion coming from ?

The aircraft can go along with production and can be even deployed in wartime with the current radome.

The first part I agree and the second part , the less said the better .

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

The first part I agree and the second part , the less said the better .

As I said, one cannot change the assumptions of an ignorant person.

 

[Secur]

As I said, one cannot change the assumptions of an ignorant person.

You cant deploy it in the current state in a war-zone if you have to , with testing/validation/development still remaining , read your own countryman's posts above .

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

You cant deploy it in the current state in a war-zone if you have to , with testing/validation/development still remaining , read your own countryman's posts above .

The WVR and some strike capabilities of the aircraft have been validated already. Once TACDE completes its job and pilot training is complete, the aircraft will be deployable in war for the capabilities that have been validated already, even if further testing/certification never takes place. Deployment for already validated capabilities doesn't require further testing.