Featured 10 soldiers martyred, 1militant killed and 3 apprehended when BLF attacked military check post in Balochistan's Kech district

[TheSolution]

When we look at the discussions on PDF. It seems like ISI is not the lumber one agency but RAW is.

A lot of discussions on PDF are heavily Pakistan biased, some just write out fantasies where they expect the Indians to just be sitting ducks...

ISI is overhyped.

 

[Patriot forever]

A lot of discussions on PDF are heavily Pakistan biased, some just write out fantasies where they expect the Indians to just be sitting ducks...

ISI is overhyped.

It's hands are tied down.

Have you seen using the moles in judiciary, traitor influencers both on mainstream and social media using backing of certain political partities.

Why do you think such dissent propaganda is launched, or security agencies have poor aim in all the staged incidents that these dissenters survive.

Which groups come in support of dissenters and traitors? Who are the so called organizations or ngo operating in the name of freedom of expression or human rights? Have you not noticed the selective bias in their approach?
Who do you think funds them and for what purpose?



Let it free, give it the license to operate with complete immunity.

 

[Jango]

I honestly don’t know and would rather let @PanzerKiel or people related to the actual profession answer that.
I know that it has been a tried tactic in insurgency and has at times worked but then it also makes the juiciest target for combined attack. US posts like this were sometimes attacked with 200+ Taliban and they were wiped out because the USAF could maintain B-52 patrols or launch Apache QRFs from FOBsz
My uninformed guess is that this posts was established without the necessary support in place by a few tiers up the chain and NO, the COAS isn’t one to go down and direct how a single post in Balochistan is being deployed. That accountability starts up the chain and then even in wartime that file should get to his desk weekly on a briefing.
THIS ISNT A DEFENSE OF THE CURRENT Leadership but a defense of the process.

If any of these criticisms for the sake of criticism actually worked in an organization larger than the 10 person usual for employers in Pakistan they would understand chain of command and accountability structures.

My previous organization had 7000 employees with 7 individual business units(corps) and those have sub-divisions that focus on particular industries(geography) and solutions(capabilities). If lets say a massive deal was lost within a particular sub-division the first forensic step isn’t the CEO running down to see what happened. It the division Sales-VP and Director of revenue having a meeting and breaking down the problem. Then any corrective actions undertaken are done WITHIN that structure itself and don’t involve the CEO because those senior managers within that division have it as part of their responsibility and accountability to fix it. Now lets say they failed and the fix wasn’t upto the standard the next in line is surprise-surprise NOT the CEO but the President of that Business unit to step in and fix the problem. However, while all this is happening the CEO of this private company is getting a quiet awareness briefing but DOESNT run down and run sales for that division himself. When the Business unit President and the CEO have their next meeting he(CEO) brings the problem up and asks for an update - then requests he be kept appraised briefly.

Now if it turns out the CEO is not undertaking his part of the accountability the first people he answers to are members of the board(corps commanders, Min Def,PM) - if they feel his Leadership has an issue they can vote them out. Now if the CEO has a lot of political power(as does happen in the private sector as well) there are legal efforts that can be initiated. Because then the CEO will not just have disgruntled employees to deal with but also shareholders.
However, if the structure for both shareholders to hold the CEO doesn’t exist or work and if the shareholders don’t have the will or intent to take every possible route to initiate informed and intelligent change then basically they are jackasses and deserve their fate.

To exemplify what I wrote on the chain of command and responsibilities/experience for each officer of the company.

When I started working in a corporate environment I would give 3 paragraph emails to my manager on the status of work.

As I moved up the chain my emails shortened to a para or less with key points of what those under me were doing to the division VP.

And now when my CEO writes to the division President on something he read regarding an issue it isn’t a paragraph.

Its “See above - thoughts?”

And if the reply is more than 10 sentences then he likely is berated for not summing it up well.

One of my favorite depictions of the chain of command is in the movie “Margin call” which I recommend all those actually looking to understand how large organizations be it Microsoft or Pakistan Army work.

The reason we pay big bucks to the COAS isn’t because we expect him to use his 30-40 year experience to solve a tactical miscalculation or localized strategy - but to interpret a single slide and formulate directives to 2 key people to what they need to elaborate down the chain and solve it for.

And, if they are ineffective in doing that and then the system is incapable/unwilling to hold them accountable then basically you’re on a sinking ship and time to get out.

This would digress from the thread topic, but I agree with you with the general premise and just have on thing to add.

The lack of such a system and chain of command, and self accountability by every player in the chain is evident by when we see a Chief Minister or the Prime Minister tending to menial tasks such as garbage collection, road beautification, tree plantation, or what have you. And the thing is, people EXPECT the chief minister to come down and inspect a patch of road. This is ingrained deep into our psyche. If he doesn't you have the media and general populace down their throats.

We want a chief minister to do something which is the job of the local councellor. Not hard to imagine that this psyche then spreads to other aspects of our lives.

 

[The Eagle]

Known journalist versus anonymous handle. Authorities would have likely confirmed if attack resulted in such a big loss.

That known journalist did a deliberate incorrect tweet so someone will reply with details and he will be having his internet brownie points for an editorial. A counter productive random tweet. Did he mention any authority or it was an airtime show? Idiot he is lying plainly but successfully got the needed details that he can use to claim credibility.

 

[JawadKKhan]

Scrolled through few pages, this thread shows how disconnected we are with reality. As if its too easy that everyone is providing their "genius" solutions which military never knows ?!

Nothing is that straight forward,

1 Geography: (similar to the point where i tried to explain that even monitoring a borderline is a challenge for even super powers with greatest satellites / drones / sensors at their disposal. This is not even a border, its a border + vast areas + urban / rural areas where they get merged.


2 Counter terror ops: People posting drone photos, some even suggesting use tactical weapons (FFS, even a shameless country will not think like that. how come for few 100s you can obilerate 10000s of innocents in your country). Some People saying why air-strikes didn't came! This was not a planned military Op by the Army. It was an ambush on a checkpost inside our territory. The air force is not programmed to scramble jets for every terror attack and that on its own country. The airstrikes can go terribly wrong and would have lasting effect on a population which is already suffering from militancy and poverty. Our enemies want us to get panic, the adversary on east intends to establish a narrative that this military is doing air-strikes against its own people. The frequency of attacks will only increase if we start using fighter jets for ambush attacks. Adversary will hire so many mercenaries as they will know every attack will become global headline and a plot to erupt internal war.

BTW! Drones, fighter jets are the NOT the right tools to fight militancy. These militants do not wear uniform, they do not have a base where they have stationed their army, They do not gather on top of mountain and wave a flag so airforce can bomb them. They do ambush and then they disperse into caves or villages or even big cities. What a fighter jet is supposed to do over a village? You may kill 5 bad guys and 5 innocents in an airstrike and you will end up making whole villages turn against you.
Air-strike is only worth if you are going against the top leadership of the militant group on intelligence based op. Then stakes are high enough even if you end up killing bystanders you are going to take the prize.

The ones who ambush checkposts are only PAWNS. They have no value, they can be disposed off and replaced in hours. Especially easy to hire when you are offering good money in extremely poor province. The fact they send them to attack tells that replacements for those are already in process. Solution of such wars is only going after the source & key leadership of the group. The source of funding is definitely RAW agents through Iranian border (kulbushan is living proof) and the key leadership that keep moving in & out. For longer peace we need to break this nexus. Once we get a breakthrough that will not be game-over. As new leadership and new nexus can be created. We need a longterm political solution for lasting peace that is through getting sympathies & loyalities of local population. This will happen when you connect the rural areas with water, electricity, gas, and most importantly provide jobs.

Immediately what military can do is to make their checkposts well defended, provide armoured vehicles to troops etc. All I see is green toyota hiluxes, Even Taliban got 1000s of armoured Humvees from US. Will do a separate thread on it. The FC is not properly equipped. They are responsible for All iran & Afghan border.

 

[Sayfullah]

We must do a demographic change of Balochistan. Move in more Pashtuns and Punjabis into Balochistan. Balochistan is very sparsely populated move in other ethnic groups and create many new cities in Balochistan. Balochistan should have a population closer to 50 million and these new inhabitants moving into Balochistan will join Balochistan police and increase its writ to many areas of Balochistan where even army didn’t have control of. Balochistan has a smaller population then Lahore but is 44% if the country. Only way to solve every issue in Balochistan and develop it is to raise the population to at least 50 million. It will also take the burden off many densely populated areas in Punjab and KPK.

 

[Maula Jatt]

We must do a demographic change of Balochistan. Move in more Pashtuns and Punjabis into Balochistan. Balochistan is very sparsely populated move in other ethnic groups and create many new cities in Balochistan. Balochistan should have a population closer to 50 million and these new inhabitants moving into Balochistan will join Balochistan police and increase its writ to many areas of Balochistan where even army didn’t have control of. Balochistan has a smaller population then Lahore but is 44% if the country. Only way to solve every issue in Balochistan and develop it is to raise the population to at least 50 million. It will also take the burden off many densely populated areas in Punjab and KPK.

There's no water in Balochistan and this whole thing sounds unethical

Balochistan is already Pashtun somewhat majority but I think they're mostly Afghan refugees and not migrants from KP
If you devalop coastline people from rest of the country especially Karachi will move and Pashtun belt is already there

but Centeral Balochistan will be there and will be even more angry looking at the demographic changes

 

[The Eagle]

If my memory is correct, Iran has already been (officially) warned before. I wonder if consequences will follow soon.

We can maintain good relations with the US if we show a willingness to harm Iran - which we should unless we are absolute cucks.

With our establishment's undying love of the US, I won't be surprised if they decide to punish Iran. However, first the Shia extremists who are more loyal to Iran than to Pakistan will have to be dealt with.

Let's not sound like there's some kind of sudden US influence to take some action against Iran. Had it been the case, Pakistan would have supported and paved way for US against Iran long ago. That's totally flawed and wrong perception to set here.

Only interesting point is that, Pakistan recently condemned Houthi attack on UAE. But still, we will look for every reason and proof. The response will be or at-least could be in kind of language that we choose to respond.

 

[Sayfullah]

There's no water in Balochistan and this whole thing sounds unethical

Water issue can be solved.
War is war. In Islam there is nothing against us moving to a different area to live. If Islam allows it ethics means nothing.
If Balochistan has a high population it will help local Baloch as well. One of the reason Punjab is so developed is because of its huge population

 

[Maula Jatt]

Water issue can be solved.
War is war. In Islam there is nothing against us moving to a different area to live. If Islam allows it ethics means nothing.
If Balochistan has a high population it will help local Baloch as well. One of the reason Punjab is so developed is because of its huge population

How can we solve water issues of a place like Balochistan with no water? We can't irrigate the whole area
I know dams can be built and irrigation can happen with couple billion $ but most areas of atleast centeral Balochistan may remain the same

And Don't think anyone from Punjab would even dare set foot in Balochistan forget moving... ID card killings
They don't hate Sindhis or Pashtun like that, maybe these groups should be encouraged to move?

24 million diverse karachites should be scattered all along the pakistani coastline forming small, big ports from Gawdar to Karachi connected by coastal highways and infra associated with it in an ideal world

But water is a critical issue to devalop coastline

 

[PakSarZameen47]

There's no water in Balochistan and this whole thing sounds unethical

Balochistan is already Pashtun somewhat majority but I think they're mostly Afghan refugees and not migrants from KP
If you devalop coastline people from rest of the country especially Karachi will move and Pashtun belt is already there

but Centeral Balochistan will be there and will be even more angry looking at the demographic changes

There's demographic changes all across Pakistan. Things like this shouldn't matter in the long run especially if we make more provinces etc then there will be no issue with this. Anyone Pakistani should be allowed to move to any other part of Pakistan

How can we solve water issues of a place like Balochistan with no water? We can't irrigate the whole area
I know dams can be built and irrigation can happen with couple billion $ but most areas of atleast centeral Balochistan may remain the same

And Don't think anyone from Punjab would even dare set foot in Balochistan forget moving... ID card killings
They don't hate Sindhis or Pashtun like that, maybe these groups should be encouraged to move?

24 million diverse karachites should be scattered all along the pakistani coastline forming small, big ports from Gawdar to Karachi connected by coastal highways and infra associated with it in an ideal world

But water is a critical issue to devalop coastline

Gwadar should be developed and all people from all provinces should move there. If security if improved then they will move. Education and reducing ethnonationalism is key

i dont why pakistan is having the provinces "named"on the based of ethnicity!!! pta ni ethnic groups ko konsi washing machine inaam may mil jani ha provinces kay name sindhi , balochi , pakhtoon , punjabi rakh kr...i always debated this particular issue in my groupmates...i mean look at india hardly any province on the name of ethnicity i.e bengal or tamil nadu are few examples.....we all are pakistani first...i am totally against this bulshi* of naming provinces like balochi , sindhi ,punjabi, pakhtoon ...are we divided? should we need some sort of sub identity ? we are all pakistanis....once my friend told me goray ka bas ni chlta ka sabz pasport phar kr dustbin mai phenk de..idhr hum sindhi ,balochi , ameer ghareeb, upper class ,lower class, sheikh gujjar , shia sunnism se he nhi bahr nikal paye 75 years may...pakistan should have lots of provinces alongwith their names not based of some race or class.

Agreed

 

[Gangetic]

i dont why pakistan is having the provinces "named"on the based of ethnicity!!! pta ni ethnic groups ko konsi washing machine inaam may mil jani ha provinces kay name sindhi , balochi , pakhtoon , punjabi rakh kr...i always debated this particular issue in my groupmates...i mean look at india hardly any province on the name of ethnicity i.e bengal or tamil nadu are few example.....we all are pakistani first...i am totally againts this bulshi* of naming provinces like balochi , sindhi ,punjabi, pakhtoon ...are we divided? should we need some sort of sub identity ? we are all pakistanis....once my friend told me goray ka bas ni chlta ka sabz pasport phar kr dustbin mai phenk de..idhr hum sindhi ,balochi , ameer ghareeb, upper class ,lower class, sheikh gujjar , shia sunnism se he nhi bahr nikal paye 75 years may...pakistan should have lots of provinces alongwith their names not based of some race or class.

Provinces don't really matter per se, what needs to happen is that local units (cities) should be more politically powerful by creating a mayoral/district system similar to Europe.

 

[uzbi aka viper]

Provinces don't really matter per se, what needs to happen is that local units (cities) should be more politically powerful by creating a mayoral/district system similar to Europe.

provinces does matter, we are fighting 5th gen war ...look at india they divided kashmir into three regions ....laddakh, jammu and kashmir....if we divided balochistan into many provinces+chanhe its name...you dont know how much bigger impact it will make...i mean 90% of balochistan is free of terror activities ..only in 10 percent areas there is a mess...b.l.a with its name or slogans will dont have an impact after we changes name or break it into further provinces , plus interference of india via terrorism in balochistan will be having no impact on our foriegn relations...entire india is built on bollywood delusions....this is 5th gen war...we have to create such fantasy , kay sub acha ha...investor lao bhai...economy is power not military....usa or china ko deykhlo

 

[SaadH]

How did strategic depth doctrine work? Most of the current mess is because of it.

Worked spectacularly well while we used it. Ever since we turned it over to the US, India and Northern Alliance's bacha baaz, we've seen the uptick in the mess being created in Pakistan.

The key to our security lies us in reclaiming that strategic depth.

 

[Maula Jatt]

i dont why pakistan is having the provinces "named"on the based of ethnicity!!! pta ni ethnic groups ko konsi washing machine inaam may mil jani ha provinces kay name sindhi , balochi , pakhtoon , punjabi rakh kr...i always debated this particular issue in my groupmates...i mean look at india hardly any province on the name of ethnicity i.e bengal or tamil nadu are few examples.....we all are pakistani first...i am totally against this bulshi* of naming provinces like balochi , sindhi ,punjabi, pakhtoon ...are we divided? should we need some sort of sub identity ? we are all pakistanis....once my friend told me goray ka bas ni chlta ka sabz pasport phar kr dustbin mai phenk de..idhr hum sindhi ,balochi , ameer ghareeb, upper class ,lower class, sheikh gujjar , shia sunnism se he nhi bahr nikal paye 75 years may...pakistan should have lots of provinces alongwith their names not based of some race or class.

NWFP was the only and last province without an ethnic name associated with it
It changed and this change was supported by majority of pakistanis except for hindkos of KP (who historically want thier own province)

I don't think there's public support for provinces without ethnic name in Pak