Our organisation will not accept western-imposed national borders, Shahid says
Pakistani Taliban spokesman Shahidullah Shahid says the group can only enter peace talks with an independent government. Image Credit: AP
Dubai: “Let those who give us lessons in peace, first give it to themselves” was the message given by Shahidullah Shahid, the spokesperson for Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan.
In an exclusive interview with Gulf News, Shahid spoke about the agenda of the TTP — the indigenous umbrella militant outfit that has been a major security challenge to Pakistan. He outlines the TTP’s views on holding peace talks with the government, its affiliation with Afghan militants, secular education, its new leader, the notorious Mullah Fazlullah — the infamous Mullah Radio from Swat, under whose reign of terror most schools in Swat were shut down and whose men allegedly later shot Malala Yousufzai.
Shahid’s penchant for quoting Allama Iqbal’s poetry, his confirmation of TTP fighters in Syria fighting alongside rebel forces against Bashar Al Assad and his views on the Pakistan government’s complicity with the United States, vis-à-vis drone strikes, provides an unusual and interesting look into the mindset of the Taliban and also leads one to question the feasibility of negotiating with a group whose driving force and agenda counter the state in every aspect. Here’s what he had to say:
After the election of Mullah Fazlullah is there a change in policy for the TTP?
There will be no change. Our policy is Sharia-based, not political; we don’t change, our policies also don’t change.
After the attack on Hakimullah Mehsud and his subsequent assassination, what are the chances of reviving the peace talks with the government — the government did condemn the attack for derailing the efforts. Any chances for a reconciliation and ceasefire?
There can be no talks. We knew from the start that dialogue is with independent people, not with majboor (bound) and subservient people. But we did this for the awam (the nation, people) to understand that these people are like this. We cannot have talks with such people but we adopted a softer stance and we showed narmi (softness) in our policy only for people to understand what these people are about.
But considering that Nawaz Sharif’s government has been very pro-dialogue and anti-military operations against the TTP and militant groups, what are the chances that your organisation may be able to overcome this trust deficit and consider a ceasefire?
We knew from day one that these are political slogans. We understand them fully. We can only talk to independent people, not people who are subservient. If somebody is associated with an organisation or group he will speak the same language so there is no need to hold talks with such people. It’s not about one government being bad or good, whether it was [Former president Asif Ali] Zardari or Sharif. If Zardari was independent we would have talked to him, if Sharif is not independent we will not talk to him. Everybody knows that now, we knew that, but for people to know that and for them to understand that for themselves, we ourselves allowed that to happen.
What is it that the TTP wants? By attacking and killing fellow Muslims and their own people, whether it is civilians, military personnel or government officials, what purpose are you trying to achieve?
We don’t believe in imposing Sharia by force. Our fight is against western secularism. Its system and education has been forced on us for 200 years, our fight is against that. Likewise, the fight on our tribal areas have been imposed on us. The westerners fight us when they want to and then call for a truce with us. They attacked us, what had we done to them? They destroyed our houses. They commit sacrilege by destroying our mosques, our madrassas. If somebody else detonates a blast we get blamed. In one night alone their drone strikes destroy three mosques; in one house 16 people are martyred; in another house 25 are killed in their drone attacks and then they blame us? But the media does not highlight what we go through and what we have suffered.
Is Pakistan fully involved with the US in the drone attacks?
We know that, we have proof, that it is involved. Pakistan is a front line ally in the war on terror and knows what’s going on fully, it is cognisant of the drone strikes and has allowed them to happen.
What is the TTP policy given the 2014 international forces withdrawal and alliance with the Afghan Taliban?
We are one and will always remain one with the Afghan Taliban. We don’t believe nor accept the borders and we feel these have been imposed on us.
What about education of girls? The Afghan Taliban are also reconsidering their views on girls’ education according to some reports. In view of the changes, is there a change in the TTP’s views on girls’ education since Mullah Fazlullah, previously in Swat, was against educating girls, whereas Islam does not prohibit girls education?
First of all, please don’t distort my message and my words. Our viewpoint is not that we are against education, be it of boys or girls. This is neither Mullah Fazlullah’s belief, nor our own, nor of any Muslims. Neither is it in Islam. Second, we never stopped people from accessing education, don’t say that we stopped them from getting an education.
During Mullah Fazlullah’s time in Swat, no girls’ madrassas were closed. This shows he wasn’t against girls’ education and neither are we, but we are against secular education.
We feel secularism and secular education have changed the views of Muslims, instead of consolidating our relations and viewpoint as Muslims, it has turned into quam parasti (nationalism). This is because of secularism and schools. It has changed people, they consider themselves Muslims but they believe in a system that is secular. It’s the schools and educational institutions that have turned their views and thoughts.
If Mullah Fazlullah opens a school in Washington or Kabul, will Obama, Nawaz Sharif or Karzai admit their kids into that school? No they won’t.
Will that mean that they are against education or against those schools Fazlullah has opened? Similarly, we are not against schools, but those schools that are teaching secularism with the backing of secular systems and states. Khas hai tarkeeb mai quam e Rasool e hashmi [Special in composition is the Hashimi Prophet’s nation (quote from Allama Iqbal’ poetry)]
In case of an operation in North Waziristan, what will be the TTP’s strategy and response?
North Waziristan’s control is in Hafiz Gulam Bahadur’s command, if he condemns it we will help, we are ready to support any Muslim in any jihad. As for the impact on us, we don’t care we are used to living in mountains, so it doesn’t affect us. Nahi tera nasheman qasr-e-sultana kai gumbad par … to shaheen hai, basera kar … [Thy abode is not on the dome of a royal palace. You are an eagle and should live on the rocks of mountains (lines from Iqbal’s poetry)]. I would like to say on behalf of the TTP that we are fighting for two things in this world: One, to destroy and finish the secular system, and to impose the Islamic system.
There have been reports that TTP fighters have gone to fight in Syria. Would you like to shed some light on the numbers and confirm if this is correct?
It is true, our men have gone, excuse me about exact numbers but the estimate is 100.
‘Let them practise what they preach,' Shahidullah Shaid, spokesperson of Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan | GulfNews.com
- By Faryal Leghari
- December 16, 2013
Pakistani Taliban spokesman Shahidullah Shahid says the group can only enter peace talks with an independent government. Image Credit: AP
Dubai: “Let those who give us lessons in peace, first give it to themselves” was the message given by Shahidullah Shahid, the spokesperson for Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan.
In an exclusive interview with Gulf News, Shahid spoke about the agenda of the TTP — the indigenous umbrella militant outfit that has been a major security challenge to Pakistan. He outlines the TTP’s views on holding peace talks with the government, its affiliation with Afghan militants, secular education, its new leader, the notorious Mullah Fazlullah — the infamous Mullah Radio from Swat, under whose reign of terror most schools in Swat were shut down and whose men allegedly later shot Malala Yousufzai.
Shahid’s penchant for quoting Allama Iqbal’s poetry, his confirmation of TTP fighters in Syria fighting alongside rebel forces against Bashar Al Assad and his views on the Pakistan government’s complicity with the United States, vis-à-vis drone strikes, provides an unusual and interesting look into the mindset of the Taliban and also leads one to question the feasibility of negotiating with a group whose driving force and agenda counter the state in every aspect. Here’s what he had to say:
After the election of Mullah Fazlullah is there a change in policy for the TTP?
There will be no change. Our policy is Sharia-based, not political; we don’t change, our policies also don’t change.
After the attack on Hakimullah Mehsud and his subsequent assassination, what are the chances of reviving the peace talks with the government — the government did condemn the attack for derailing the efforts. Any chances for a reconciliation and ceasefire?
There can be no talks. We knew from the start that dialogue is with independent people, not with majboor (bound) and subservient people. But we did this for the awam (the nation, people) to understand that these people are like this. We cannot have talks with such people but we adopted a softer stance and we showed narmi (softness) in our policy only for people to understand what these people are about.
But considering that Nawaz Sharif’s government has been very pro-dialogue and anti-military operations against the TTP and militant groups, what are the chances that your organisation may be able to overcome this trust deficit and consider a ceasefire?
We knew from day one that these are political slogans. We understand them fully. We can only talk to independent people, not people who are subservient. If somebody is associated with an organisation or group he will speak the same language so there is no need to hold talks with such people. It’s not about one government being bad or good, whether it was [Former president Asif Ali] Zardari or Sharif. If Zardari was independent we would have talked to him, if Sharif is not independent we will not talk to him. Everybody knows that now, we knew that, but for people to know that and for them to understand that for themselves, we ourselves allowed that to happen.
What is it that the TTP wants? By attacking and killing fellow Muslims and their own people, whether it is civilians, military personnel or government officials, what purpose are you trying to achieve?
We don’t believe in imposing Sharia by force. Our fight is against western secularism. Its system and education has been forced on us for 200 years, our fight is against that. Likewise, the fight on our tribal areas have been imposed on us. The westerners fight us when they want to and then call for a truce with us. They attacked us, what had we done to them? They destroyed our houses. They commit sacrilege by destroying our mosques, our madrassas. If somebody else detonates a blast we get blamed. In one night alone their drone strikes destroy three mosques; in one house 16 people are martyred; in another house 25 are killed in their drone attacks and then they blame us? But the media does not highlight what we go through and what we have suffered.
Is Pakistan fully involved with the US in the drone attacks?
We know that, we have proof, that it is involved. Pakistan is a front line ally in the war on terror and knows what’s going on fully, it is cognisant of the drone strikes and has allowed them to happen.
What is the TTP policy given the 2014 international forces withdrawal and alliance with the Afghan Taliban?
We are one and will always remain one with the Afghan Taliban. We don’t believe nor accept the borders and we feel these have been imposed on us.
What about education of girls? The Afghan Taliban are also reconsidering their views on girls’ education according to some reports. In view of the changes, is there a change in the TTP’s views on girls’ education since Mullah Fazlullah, previously in Swat, was against educating girls, whereas Islam does not prohibit girls education?
First of all, please don’t distort my message and my words. Our viewpoint is not that we are against education, be it of boys or girls. This is neither Mullah Fazlullah’s belief, nor our own, nor of any Muslims. Neither is it in Islam. Second, we never stopped people from accessing education, don’t say that we stopped them from getting an education.
During Mullah Fazlullah’s time in Swat, no girls’ madrassas were closed. This shows he wasn’t against girls’ education and neither are we, but we are against secular education.
We feel secularism and secular education have changed the views of Muslims, instead of consolidating our relations and viewpoint as Muslims, it has turned into quam parasti (nationalism). This is because of secularism and schools. It has changed people, they consider themselves Muslims but they believe in a system that is secular. It’s the schools and educational institutions that have turned their views and thoughts.
If Mullah Fazlullah opens a school in Washington or Kabul, will Obama, Nawaz Sharif or Karzai admit their kids into that school? No they won’t.
Will that mean that they are against education or against those schools Fazlullah has opened? Similarly, we are not against schools, but those schools that are teaching secularism with the backing of secular systems and states. Khas hai tarkeeb mai quam e Rasool e hashmi [Special in composition is the Hashimi Prophet’s nation (quote from Allama Iqbal’ poetry)]
In case of an operation in North Waziristan, what will be the TTP’s strategy and response?
North Waziristan’s control is in Hafiz Gulam Bahadur’s command, if he condemns it we will help, we are ready to support any Muslim in any jihad. As for the impact on us, we don’t care we are used to living in mountains, so it doesn’t affect us. Nahi tera nasheman qasr-e-sultana kai gumbad par … to shaheen hai, basera kar … [Thy abode is not on the dome of a royal palace. You are an eagle and should live on the rocks of mountains (lines from Iqbal’s poetry)]. I would like to say on behalf of the TTP that we are fighting for two things in this world: One, to destroy and finish the secular system, and to impose the Islamic system.
There have been reports that TTP fighters have gone to fight in Syria. Would you like to shed some light on the numbers and confirm if this is correct?
It is true, our men have gone, excuse me about exact numbers but the estimate is 100.
‘Let them practise what they preach,' Shahidullah Shaid, spokesperson of Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan | GulfNews.com
