Options for PAF After India Selects Rafale for MMRCA

[abdulbarijan]

While some people are bouncing that "yes!! we got rafale... we got rafale..."
Just a reality check till 2015 you wont get it..thats about 3 years for PAF to prepare...
The only thing PAF can purchase to handle the rafale is the FC-20...and its no big secret
And the people going "hurrahhhh!! rafale will be modified for India with Israeli technology and stuff"...

well wont that raise the per unit cost again..and lemme remind you..wasn't the rafale chosen cuz it was the lowest bidder???

Well even if Israel etc provide you guys assistance no matter....

Cuz just like the Rafale will be modified for IAF...similarly FC-20 will be modified for PAF...

All we can do now is buy 100 odd FC-20's and better our ground support eg SAMS and perfect our stand off capabilities for offense, after all PAF's basic doctrine is defensive...

 

[ejaz007]

Perhaps PAF can not match fighter to fighter capability wise but what we can do is improve our fighter fleet by incorporating better fighters than we have. Similarly we can improve our surface to air assets which shall make it difficult for IAF fighters to enter our air space and survive.

Just remember one thing PAF is defensive in nature while IAF is offensive in nature.

 

[Rank]

Yaar simply... J11B, J10B, F16 are enough to counter any threat.... go for J11B and J10B with AESA...

 

[killerx]

what are we arguing about India is buying rafale so Pakistan will buy some thing else to counter that and sooo it goes on buy more and in the end it all it comes to pilots who fly them them in first place we should compare the dog fights data to see who is the
best these future fighter jets gon BVR and USA F35 in great in BVR fights but crap in dog fight its not highly agile F16 can kick its
ASSSS so if there was a war in india pakistan in future we will see more dog fights then BVR for sure and it all counts is pilot skills and jets manuverablity and trust power

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

what are we arguing about India is buying rafale so Pakistan will buy some thing else to counter that and sooo it goes on buy more and in the end it all it comes to pilots who fly them them in first place we should compare the dog fights data to see who is the
best these future fighter jets gon BVR and USA F35 in great in BVR fights but crap in dog fight its not highly agile F16 can kick its
ASSSS so if there was a war in india pakistan in future we will see more dog fights then BVR for sure and it all counts is pilot skills and jets manuverablity and trust power

no my friend...you will see more of bvr and less of wvr fights...and not only pilot skills, thrust and manuverability..but radar, missile range, tactics, other supporting systems, etc also will count..

 

[deckingraj]

There are so many flaws in your argument so let me go after one by one...but before i go in let me remind you that I consider PAF a very formidable side....However this is time for reality check at your end as well...Any side can maintain its glory if it keep improving with the passage of time...This is the era in which forces across the world are going for lean forces backed with modern technology to give even bloodier punch then what they would have othewise....That is the mantra!!!

While some people are bouncing that "yes!! we got rafale... we got rafale..."
Just a reality check till 2015 you wont get it..thats about 3 years for PAF to prepare...

You cannot be more wrong in this...
a) It will take approximately 6-8 months for further negotiations...Once the contract is signed first 18 planes are going to be delivered directly by france...Add another 18 months for the delivery of these aircrafts then we are looking at Jan-Feb of 2014....Anyhow there can be always delays still IMHO we will see Rafale in tricolors before 2015...

b) PAF knew about this deal for almost a decade now...They knew all the contenders and as per certain members all those fighters have been evaluated in some respect...So they had plenty of time to come up with their own counter...Having said that nothing new has emerged so far...So it is highly likely PAF is putting its bet on JF-17, J10's and future J20's of China...Obviously better SAMS, net-cnetric warfare, AWACS etc are force multipliers as well..So IMHO this is what PAF believe is a good enough counter with limited resources...

c) Even if we get Rafale today it won't help us if there is some action...bcoz it is no rocket science that it take a miminum of 4-5 years to master a plane...

Third point is very important...So far we don't know when are you going to get J-10's(tentaive 2015)...add 4-5 years for developing the doctrine....

In short economy is taking a good toll on your forces...IAF has taken a substantial lead and it is going to be very difficult for PAF to catch up...Right now the only option PAF has is to expect no hostilities for some time...This will give them enough buffer to catch up...Obvioulsy economy needs to back them as well...

The only thing PAF can purchase to handle the rafale is the FC-20...and its no big secret. And the people going "hurrahhhh!! rafale will be modified for India with Israeli technology and stuff"...well wont that raise the per unit cost again..and lemme remind you..wasn't the rafale chosen cuz it was the lowest bidder???

Please keep in mind at the moment cost is not an issue for us...an no it will not raise the per unit cost...bcoz irrespective of the platform chosen we would have gone for Israeli technology if it is going to make the machine more lethal...so effective the cost remains the same....

Well even if Israel etc provide you guys assistance no matter....Cuz just like the Rafale will be modified for IAF...similarly FC-20 will be modified for PAF...

Of-course it will...I have no doubt in my mind on that...

All we can do now is buy 100 odd FC-20's and better our ground support eg SAMS and perfect our stand off capabilities for offense, after all PAF's basic doctrine is defensive...

100??? I am not sure if you can afford in...Anyhow that is your headache...As far as doctrine is concerned then i have repeated it many times defensive doesn't mean no offense....Yuu will have to cross the border and risk those planes being shot...Well i do agree that number of offensive sorties by IAF would be much higher than PAF but that does not mean PAF will not have offensive sorties at all...

 

[deckingraj]

what are we arguing about India is buying rafale so Pakistan will buy some thing else to counter that and sooo it goes on buy more and in the end it all it comes to pilots who fly them them in first place we should compare the dog fights data to see who is the
best these future fighter jets gon BVR and USA F35 in great in BVR fights but crap in dog fight its not highly agile F16 can kick its
ASSSS so if there was a war in india pakistan in future we will see more dog fights then BVR for sure and it all counts is pilot skills and jets manuverablity and trust power

If my plane is good in BVR and not very good in dog fights then i need to be a fool to get engaged in WVR, no??? There is a reason countries are moving towards BVR enabled planes....There is a reason every effort is being done to make JF-17 a better plane when it comes to BVR...

Listen buddy there are many informed members in this forum...my suggestion to you would be read more on this subject...

 

[fatman17]

is this a new record - 282 deleted posts!!!

 

[Jackdaws]

Given Asia's lack of pedigree in building fighter aircraft, Pakistan would be pretty daft to rely on Chinese aircraft - none of them have been tested in battle conditions. Before you accuse me of racism, I don't trust the Indian LCA Tejas either which I think is a white elephant. The amount India spent in developing the LCA - they could have acquired a whole bunch of other Eurofighters or Rafales. Pakistan should approach one of the other European countries - banking on Chinese aircraft is fraught with risk.

 

[Haroon rafeeq]

The best Option is
Go for atleast 12 AWACS.
Even old f7 can kill rafale just Matter of who See first.
If f7 See it First with The help of awacs , Then 2 f7 can easily kill 1 rafale.
400 mirages can Do Same.
Just matter of tactics and Pilot skills.
Not ti forget jf17,10 and 16

---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 PM ----------

The best Option is
Go for atleast 12 AWACS.
Even old f7 can kill rafale just Matter of who See first.
If f7 See it First with The help of awacs , Then 2 f7 can easily kill 1 rafale.
400 mirages can Do Same.
Just matter of tactics and Pilot skills.
Not ti forget jf17,10 and 16

 

[hatyogi]

Going by this analysis what does a country fear more in arial combat loosing aircraft or the pilots. I think the planes can be replaced fast and cheap what is costlier is good pilots. WW II, Japan had more planes but fewer pilots to fly them as they were not able to train pilots as fast as they were loosing them. Calculation of damage inflicted is more to do with loosing pilots. Thats where the side with planes with superior technology wins.

 

[Edevelop]

Weapons are needed for sure. They should be purchased with respect to how much we can possibly achieve within the defence budget limit. I think overall where we stand and how we are progressing seems perfect.
These Indians will be scared once they see us coming out in a surprise....
Let them chill and enjoy while we continue our production secretly...
2015 hasn't arrived yet. The assumption is, that both will have 4+ gen aircrafts in hand. Other than that, both air forces stand equal as of today.

 

[ManuZ]

The best Option is
Go for atleast 12 AWACS.
Even old f7 can kill rafale just Matter of who See first.
If f7 See it First with The help of awacs , Then 2 f7 can easily kill 1 rafale.
400 mirages can Do Same.
Just matter of tactics and Pilot skills.
Not ti forget jf17,10 and 16

---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 PM ----------

The best Option is
Go for atleast 12 AWACS.
Even old f7 can kill rafale just Matter of who See first.
If f7 See it First with The help of awacs , Then 2 f7 can easily kill 1 rafale.
400 mirages can Do Same.
Just matter of tactics and Pilot skills.
Not ti forget jf17,10 and 16

U must be joking r8?
f7 killing rafale?

 

[帅的一匹]

Given Asia's lack of pedigree in building fighter aircraft, Pakistan would be pretty daft to rely on Chinese aircraft - none of them have been tested in battle conditions. Before you accuse me of racism, I don't trust the Indian LCA Tejas either which I think is a white elephant. The amount India spent in developing the LCA - they could have acquired a whole bunch of other Eurofighters or Rafales. Pakistan should approach one of the other European countries - banking on Chinese aircraft is fraught with risk.

What is that 'banking on Chinese aircraft is fraught with risk', It is not realistic for PAF to ao after EFT. Whatever India gets is the best plane in the world trolling theory should stop now!

 

[K-Xeroid]

U must be joking r8?
f7 killing rafale?

When ever you'll get those rafale until then F-7 and Mirage will be replaced by jf-17 blk 2 and blk 1 and blk 3 will be getting ready to introduce at then... Mirage ROSEs are the best for land support till 2017...