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Source: hurriyetdailynews

Turkey to take missile decision after elections

Turkey has once again postponed its final decision on the contractor of its multi-billion dollar long-range air and anti-missile defense system, as it may rethink the Russian offer, a senior official says


Ankara has put off its final decision on a disputed, multi-billion dollar contract for the acquisition of the country’s first long-range air and anti-missile defense system.

Senior defense procurement officials said the government was reluctant to make a decision until after parliamentary elections on June 7.

“Talks with all three bidders are in progress but there is every indication that a decision will have to be made by the new government,” a senior official said.

He said the contract would be further discussed at the first meeting of the Defense Industry Executive Committee. The committee is chaired by the prime minister. Its other members are the defense minister, the chief of the military general staff and the head of the defense procurement office, the Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM).

However, the official said, that does not mean a decision will be announced after the first post-election meeting of the committee. “Further deliberations may be required,” he said, signaling the potential for more delays.

Earlier, Turkish officials said the government abstained from making a decision on the contract before Apr. 24, the centennial of the Armenian genocide. They said Ankarawould first wish to see the U.S. and French positions on the “genocide claims” before awarding a critical and large defense contract, potentially to a bidder from one of these countries.

Another defense official said the eliminated Russian bid could re-enter the picture, depending on how keen the Russians would be to improve it.

“We may rethink the Russian solution if its price and technology transfer level have been significantly improved,” the official said. In 2013, the Russian bid nearly doubled the preliminary winner’s.

After Ankara selected a Chinese company in September 2013 to build the air defense architecture and came under heavy pressure from its western allies for the decision, it also opened parallel negotiations this summer with a European contender in the multi-billion dollar competition.

Contract negotiations with the Chinese manufacturer, China Precision Machinery Import Export Corp (CPMIEC), are in progress but President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said talks were also opened with Eurosam, the European contender in the program.

Following an assessment by Turkey’s top defense procurement agency, the Defense Industry Executive Committee selected CPMIEC as the best bidder, while Eurosam was second. A U.S. partnership between Raytheon and Lockheed Martin came third in the bidding. CPMIEC offered a solution with a price tag of $3.44 billion.

A defense industry source said he expects a tough rivalry between French and U.S. contenders in the second half of 2015. “Both of them are surely aware that how their governments tackle the centennial will be critical for success or failure,” he said.
 
O hooo oo.... Beyler T-LORAMİDS ihalesi hiç de bildiğimiz gibi değilmiş. S&H o.ç b. bokdil gibi değil, güvendiğimiz bi kaynak. Diyolar ki ćinli firmayla görüştük, çin teknoloji paylaşmıyor haberlerine çok bozulmuşlar. Adamlar diyor ki şartnamede ToT yok ki, biz niye ToT yapalım ? Sadece % 30 sanayi katılımı ve offset var diyolar...
 
O hooo oo.... Beyler T-LORAMİDS ihalesi hiç de bildiğimiz gibi değilmiş. S&H o.ç b. bokdil gibi değil, güvendiğimiz bi kaynak. Diyolar ki ćinli firmayla görüştük, çin teknoloji paylaşmıyor haberlerine çok bozulmuşlar. Adamlar diyor ki şartnamede ToT yok ki, biz niye ToT yapalım ? Sadece % 30 sanayi katılımı ve offset var diyolar...


yok oyle birsey, bizimkiler altina basa basa soylemediler mi? Anlasilan bunu kendimiz yapacagiz yane kimse vermek istemiyor...:-)
 
yok oyle birsey, bizimkiler altina basa basa soylemediler mi? Anlasilan bunu kendimiz yapacagiz yane kimse vermek istemiyor...:-)

S&H yalan söylemiyodur ama çinliler de yalan söylemiyorsa bu durum maalesef öyledir. Şartnamede yoksa yoktur. Belki de çinliler yalan söylüyordur, bilmiyorum. Her türlü sahtekarlık beklenir...

Bir de BMC'nin ihaleyle ilgili tanımlanan araçları bunlar...

BMC 245-16 P (4X4) 5 Ton TTA | BMC

BMC 380-26 P (6X6) 10 Ton TTA | BMC

1.jpg
2.jpg




Hani bu olacaktı ? İlgili göreve özel böyle çirkin bi araç olması gerekir...

3.jpg


Ayrıca...

Projede ASELSAN haberleşme sistemlerinin tamamı ve JM Gözetleme radarının üretimi

ROKETSAN aktif radar güdümlü FD-2000 füzelerinin parça üretimi ve nihai montajı

AYESAŞ FD-2000'nin milli sistemlerle entegrasyonu

Yine ROKETSAN FD-2000 füzelerinin harp başlığı ile motorunun yurt içi üretiminden ve füzelerin nihai entegrasyonu ile atış testlerinden sorumlu...

Bir de diyo ki...

"CPMIEC yetkilisinin şartnamede teknoloji transferi istenmediği yönündeki ifadesini doğrulayan bir ASELSAN yetkilisi ise CPMIEC'nin IPO(Sanayi katılım , offset) kapsamında Türk şirketlere sadece fason imalat yaptıracağını belirtti...

EUROSAM yetkilileriyle de görüşmüş S&H... Bu arada bu görüşmeler IDEX 2015'te gerçekleşiyor...

Eurosam yetkilisi demiş ki ihalenin tıkanması ve yeni ihale açılması durumunda Türkiye için en iyi çözüm EuroSam konsorsiyumuna 3. ortak ülke olarak katılması diyor...

Bir de diyor ki özetle... Mevcut ihalede Türkiye yeni şeyler talep ettiği için ekledik ama tabi bu fiyatı arttırdı...

Şunu da ekleyeyim.. Belki önemlidir bu uzun menzil konusunun geleceği hakkında... Çinliler diyo ki eğe ToT isteniyorsa bu başka bir kontrat altında yapılabilir... Acaba diyorum bizim ihtimaller arasında görüdüğüm gibi olabilir mi ? Yani çinle direkt ToT ve tamamen yerli ASELSAN-ROKETSAN HİSAR-U...
 
S&H yalan söylemiyodur ama çinliler de yalan söylemiyorsa bu durum maalesef öyledir. Şartnamede yoksa yoktur. Belki de çinliler yalan söylüyordur, bilmiyorum. Her türlü sahtekarlık beklenir...

Bir de BMC'nin ihaleyle ilgili tanımlanan araçları bunlar...

BMC 245-16 P (4X4) 5 Ton TTA | BMC

BMC 380-26 P (6X6) 10 Ton TTA | BMC

View attachment 208231 View attachment 208232



Hani bu olacaktı ? İlgili göreve özel böyle çirkin bi araç olması gerekir...

View attachment 208233

Ayrıca...

Projede ASELSAN haberleşme sistemlerinin tamamı ve JM Gözetleme radarının üretimi

ROKETSAN aktif radar güdümlü FD-2000 füzelerinin parça üretimi ve nihai montajı

AYESAŞ FD-200'nin milli sistemlerle entegrasyonu

Yine ROKETSAN FD-2000 füzelerinin harp başlığı ile motorunun yurt içi üretiminden ve füzelerin nihai entegrasyonu ile atış testlerinden sorumlu...

Bir de diyo ki...

"CPMIEC yetkilisinin şartnamede teknoloji transferi istenmediği yönündeki ifadesini doğrulayan bir ASELSAN yetkilisiise CPMIEC'nin IPO(Sanayi katılım , offset) kapsamında Türk şirketlere sadece fason imalat yaptıracağını belirtti...

At the beggining of tender, It was a direct-order project. When It was asked SSM about details, They were telling We request a complete SAM system to be manufactured abroad. The most important thing is the delivery date...(empty voices) In those times, There was a thought like "We can never build Long range SAM system, Low and Medium altitude missiles is around posibility but Long altitude is another story"... bla bla.

but Later When Aselsan/Roketsan collaboration pushed button to prepare feasiblity reports to prove them wrong, They realized that Ambitious of Turkish engineers can manage to develop it as well so The requirements changed and Project model is also updated as co-production and ToT. To prepare necessary papers, It also delayed a bit but It is certain that The requirements are changed and ToT became vital for institute who joined into tender.
 
24 March 2015
Italian Defence Ministry Undersecretary, Gioacchino Alfano and Turkish Defence Ministry Undersecretary, Demir have met in Reception at the Italian Consulate to talk about further cooperation opportunities.

Regarding the Turkey's long-range missile procurement tender which has caused friction between NATO and Turkey, as Turkey decided to prefer China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp's products due to an extensive technology transfer pledge, Alfano said there was an ongoing study for a new proposal from Franco-Italian missile maker MBDA which included technology transfer.

Turkey seeks cooperation with West on defense technology Anadolu Agency
 
At the beggining of tender, It was a direct-order project. When It was asked SSM about details, They were telling We request a complete SAM system to be manufactured abroad. The most important thing is the delivery date...(empty voices) In those times, There was a thought like "We can never build Long range SAM system, Low and Medium altitude missiles is around posibility but Long altitude is another story"... bla bla.

but Later When Aselsan/Roketsan collaboration pushed button to prepare feasiblity reports to prove them wrong, They realized that Ambitious of Turkish engineers can manage to develop it as well so The requirements changed and Project model is also updated as co-production and ToT. To prepare necessary papers, It also delayed a bit but It is certain that The requirements are changed and ToT became vital for institute who joined into tender.

This is good news...

O değil de ne ihaleydi be... Roman yazılır bu ihale süreci hakkında... :D
 
This is good news...

O değil de ne ihaleydi be... Roman yazılır bu ihale süreci hakkında... :D

All Turkish SAM tenders follow similar paths. If you don't believe on your engineers' capabilities, May other projects will proceed like that.

Low altitude missile tender was also opened as "direct order/co-production" project model and Around 7-8 institutes all around the world participated into there. Aselsan/Roketsan collaboration nagged at SSM to prove their capabilities in order to develop their own solutions If Army can wait 5 years. Turkish institute team hardly managed to cancel already going tender and It is renewed as "fully domestic development" project model that We currently call as Hisar-A and given to Aselsan/Roketsan.

Same things proceeded almost same for Medium altitude missile program as well. Pressures gave positive results to cancel ongoing tender to commence development of domestic Hisar-O.

but I really don't know Why SSM has already been struggling to order a foreign missiles While own institutes are sweating same tears to tell How they are going to develop Hisar-U If they gave 5 to 7 years...
 
24 March 2015
Italian Defence Ministry Undersecretary, Gioacchino Alfano and Turkish Defence Ministry Undersecretary, Demir have met in Reception at the Italian Consulate to talk about further cooperation opportunities.

Regarding the Turkey's long-range missile procurement tender which has caused friction between NATO and Turkey, as Turkey decided to prefer China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp's products due to an extensive technology transfer pledge, Alfano said there was an ongoing study for a new proposal from Franco-Italian missile maker MBDA which included technology transfer.

Turkey seeks cooperation with West on defense technology Anadolu Agency


I don't see Franco-Italian-Turkish, but Italian-Turkish is considerable collaboration.
 
24 March 2015
Italian Defence Ministry Undersecretary, Gioacchino Alfano and Turkish Defence Ministry Undersecretary, Demir have met in Reception at the Italian Consulate to talk about further cooperation opportunities.

Regarding the Turkey's long-range missile procurement tender which has caused friction between NATO and Turkey, as Turkey decided to prefer China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp's products due to an extensive technology transfer pledge, Alfano said there was an ongoing study for a new proposal from Franco-Italian missile maker MBDA which included technology transfer.

Turkey seeks cooperation with West on defense technology Anadolu Agency

At the end, we (EU, including Turkey) must do the deal.
 
All Turkish SAM tenders follow similar paths. If you don't believe on your engineers' capabilities, May other projects will proceed like that.

Low altitude missile tender was also opened as "direct order/co-production" project model and Around 7-8 institutes all around the world participated into there. Aselsan/Roketsan collaboration nagged at SSM to prove their capabilities in order to develop their own solutions If Army can wait 5 years. Turkish institute team hardly managed to cancel already going tender and It is renewed as "fully domestic development" project model that We currently call as Hisar-A and given to Aselsan/Roketsan.

Same things proceeded almost same for Medium altitude missile program as well. Pressures gave positive results to cancel ongoing tender to commence development of domestic Hisar-O.

but I really don't know Why SSM has already been struggling to order a foreign missiles While own institutes are sweating same tears to tell How they are going to develop Hisar-U If they gave 5 to 7 years...

Bro. actually as you know SSM says "We have ongoing ASELSAN-ROKETSAN 'HİSAR-U' project too, it's different matter" so ASELSAN&ROKETSAN is in... But confusion is why T-LORAMİDS is still going on...
 
Bro. actually as you know SSM says "We have ongoing ASELSAN-ROKETSAN 'HİSAR-U' project too, it's different matter" so ASELSAN&ROKETSAN is in... But confusion is why T-LORAMİDS is still going on...

Bro, What Aselsan requests is either cancel current ongoing tender or decrease the requested batteries(12 batteries mean around 300 FD-2000 ready to fire + spare missiles + tens of Chinese radars...etc), Otherwise, It will not be a meaning of spending hundreds of million Euro to develop domestic Hisar-U to replace currently ordered Chinese missiles by 2040's. If You pay attention of Ergeneman's speeches, Aselsan don't want a technology transfer from China. He clearly underlines that We have that infrastructure to develop much better system within 7 years so It is vital to commence development of Hisar-U without loosing any single time from now.

Most probably, Aselsan is planning to develop Hisar-U Block-1 as PAC-3+ role with limited ballistic missile engagement capability, While further variant will be modified as anti-ballistic missile system as RF seeker roadway of Aselsan introducing by mid. of 2020's.
 
Bro, What Aselsan requests is either cancel current ongoing tender or decrease the requested batteries(12 batteries mean around 300 FD-2000 ready to fire + spare missiles + tens of Chinese radars...etc), Otherwise, It will not be a meaning of spending hundreds of million Euro to develop domestic Hisar-U to replace currently ordered Chinese missiles by 2040's. If You pay attention of Ergeneman's speeches, Aselsan don't want a technology transfer from China. He clearly underlines that We have that infrastructure to develop much better system within 7 years so It is vital to commence development of Hisar-U without loosing any single time from now.

Ok as you know i agree with you 100%...

But the thing i try to do is trying to understand the current situation, what's going on...

SSM keeps T-LORAMİDS on & they don't decrease requested batteries so this means if tender won't be cancelled we will have all we want about that capability...

So i start to think... If we will have air defence system all we need at that stage, are ASELSAN/ROKETSAN working for a more improved(then T-LORAMİDS), longer range & altitude Air Defence System ?..
 

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