Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments

[Flight of falcon]

A bit like this? :

This is more of Ukraine dn Russia fight......Zelenski being the black knight...

 

[LeGenD]

No country accepts separatism by default.

Russian decision to overcome separatist movement of Chechnya is acceptable. Chechnya was not one of the Soviet Socialist Republics.

Georgia had similar problem in South Ossetia and Abkhazia respectively. Its rationale to overcome separatist movement in these regions was acceptable but Russia annexed these lands in 2008. Others watched in silence.

Ukraine had problems in Donbas and Crimea respectively but Russia went out of its way to engineer and support separatism in these locations and annexed Crimea in 2014. Others watched in silence.

This was not enough either.

Russians decided to take this matter to next level by invading Ukraine proper in 2022. It was at this stage that US/NATO drew a line and decided to teach Russia a lesson.

Point is that what is acceptable in case of Russia, is fair for other countries as well.

Those who are patronizing Russia in this matter - think about your country for a change. Should it be balkanized? Maybe US/NATO should do the honors?

This is a matter of having principles.

 

[mulj]

This "claims" are from the UN and the UN personal who were on spot

Fhat serbs were opressed, that genocide did not happen? Sorry, now i doubt in your sanity.

 

[Ich]

No country accepts separatism by default.

Russian decision to overcome separatist movement of Chechnya is acceptable. Chechnya was not one of the Soviet Socialist Republics.

Georgia had similar problem in South Ossetia and Abkhazia respectively. Its rationale to overcome separatist movement in these regions was acceptable but Russia annexed these lands in 2008. Others watched in silence.

Ukraine had problems in Donbas and Crimea respectively but Russia went out of its way to engineer and support separatism in these locations and annexed Crimea in 2014. Others watched in silence.

This was not enough either.

Russians decided to take this matter to next level by invading Ukraine proper in 2022. It was at this stage that US/NATO drew line and decided to teach Russia a lesson.

Point is that what is acceptable for Russia, is fair for other countries by extension.

Those who are patronizing Russia in this matter - think about your country for a change. Should it be balkanized? Maybe US/NATO should do the honors?

This is a matter of having principles.

So you would give back Kosovo to Serbia? As we all know the media and the Attackers lied about what happened in Kosovo, Even German defence minister Rudolf Scharping admitted it. Also there was no allow by UN. It was an illegal war of aggression by NATO.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Can you show me a russian equivalent to this? NATO lied a lot since existing.

Edit:

I read it and surprise: Ukraine is not mentioned.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation. The rest follows.

The document is registered at the United Nations.

 

[The SC]

Arrival in Ukraine of the American M777 howitzer and the Australian Bushmaster armored vehicles

 

[Ich]

Ukraine is a sovereign nation. The rest follows.

The document is registered at the United Nations.

But no word about Ukraine in the document you provided. You said in your post that that document would prove that Russia admits the NATO join of Ukraine. But Ukraine even doesnt exists as word in the document you provided.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

So you would give back Kosovo to Serbia? As we all know the media and the Attackers lied about what happened in Kosovo, Even German defence minister Rudolf Scharping admitted it. Also there was no allow by UN. It was an illegal war of aggression by NATO.

And the genocides committed by the Serbs during the Yugoslav wars were Crimes against Humanity.
Srebrenica the most prominent example.
Russia violated the UN Charter by vetoing the resolutions that should put a stop to the Serbian killings.

But no word about Ukraine in the document you provided. You said in your post that that document would prove that Russia admits the NATO join of Ukraine. But Ukraine even doesnt exists as word in the document you provided.

If you cannot put 2 and 2 together, you should probably not discuss politics.

• respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents;

As Ukraine is a state, they have the sovereign right to choose the means of their own security.
That includes joining NATO, and NATO countries have a sovereign right to accept the application.

 

[Paul2]

China is a single party state and if the leader isn't good it means they can do it even thought it causes huge problems... Putin is surrounded by yes men and you gotta wonder if Xi has done the same.

I will tell you following about how Beijing been working starting circa 2015:

1. Xi is an insecure man. Above all Xi is insecure about his intellectual achievements
2. He has a far from publicity team of 7 advisers. They are not bad at all indeed. They are very "Zhou types"
3. These advisers basically put ready documents on the table, and tell Xi to sign them. Aside from cases when Xi slams the table, and says "things will go my way" all major policy trends coming from him are their inventions + few other people having his ears.
4. Xi is super reliant on them, and very conscious of exposing that to wider world
5. The only thing he drives personally is his (anti-) party politics. He is a veteran party politician, he is very good at fending off internal competition

Basically, the yesman is he himself. While I admin these 7 have a grain of talent, they don't do more for him than basically reading some Western policy journal, and picking some safe ways to capitalise on already existing trends.

 

[_Nabil_]

He wants nuclear war and is fine with himself being dead, hence please skip the first part and proceed to the second.

I find it funny the hate towards Americans by some here. Every civilization has done good and bad, not one is perfect.
Just remember America could simply stop providing food aid to Africa and millions would die in 12 months. They could also stop donating and providing aid after every world disaster. I think it’s clear the good outweighs the bad.

Take a minute and reflect, Russia, China, the Eu don’t provide anywhere near the free aid the US does, so next time you’re chanting death to America remember it’s death to millions around the world as well.

As if everyone else isn’t
Thanks for ignoring my post, just proving my point.
For the record, If it was on a ballot I’d vote to end our generosity all together, the world would be a much more dangerous place and not for me.


Exactly we can agree on that

You can keep your so called "Generosity" and put it wherever you want.

just stop : making wars, supporting dictators, destabilisation of elected regimes, financing terrorists, .....


The millions of deaths you caused, are still not enough for you??

 

[J dud]

This is not a valid argument. My thread contain links which provide professional coverage of the war (Mapping Information; Facts & Figures), and links which debunk disinformation in relation to the war.

My thread is not a collection of subjective viewpoints - Russian or Western. You get plenty of both in this thread.

My 2nd link is apolitical and factual as well. The link you shared is peer-reviewed? Never seen it before.

Much better information in following links:

The requested content has been archived

This content has been archived in the Parliamentary database: ParlInfo. You can use the advanced search to limit your search to Bills Digests and/or Library Publications, Seminars and Lectures as required. ParlInfo search tips are also available. Otherwise click here to retu

www.aph.gov.au

Georgia/Russia, Independent International Fact-Finding Mission on the Conflict in South Ossetia | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook

casebook.icrc.org

You need to understand that no country accepts separatism by default. Georgia was experiencing separatism in South Ossetia and Abkhazia respectively. These regions demanded political autonomy and chose the path of separatism upon refusal. Russia was supporting separatists in this matter. Georgian leadership(s) attempted to bring these regions to the fold through use of force but Russia under Putin administration annexed them in 2008. Georgia could not fight Russia of-course.

Russia is repeating similar game in Ukraine. Check following report:

Full Report: Russian Officers and Militants Identified as Perpetrators of the January 2015 Mariupol Artillery Strike - bellingcat

The full investigation can be downloaded here A collection of intercepted phone conversations that were used as research materials in this investigation can be accessed here Our directory of archived videos of the Mariupol shelling and its aftermath can be accessed here Our map summarizing the...

www.bellingcat.com

Russia have its rationale for intervention in political affairs of other countries but it is logical and sensible to respect internationally recognized borders of any country.

OR

Russia is allowed to reshape countries around it as it sees fit?

International order should have rules, or WE are back to the Age of Empires and nothing changed.

What if other big countries start doing the same?

Would you welcome balkanization of Germany? Your country was split between NATO and USSR in times of the Cold War but Pakistan and NATO made it possible for your country to reunite. Be thankful to these forces including my country.

To be fair to Russians, their decision to defeat separatism in Chechnya is FINE. Chechnya was not an independent SSR.

Same principle extends to other countries.

While i agree that we are not in the age of empires and territorial integrity / sovereignity should be respected by all.

But most of the countries we are talking about are a result of balkanization of ussr !

And the split of these countries was not as simple . A significant portion of the population of these countries wanted to be with ussr ! Even currently we see the older generation of eastern Ukrainians prefer to be russian contrary to what most people believe.


I am fully against the war in ukraine . And putin made a grave mistake by invading ukraine. But the situation is not as straightforward as some people believe it to be.

 

[LeGenD]

So you would give back Kosovo to Serbia? As we all know the media and the Attackers lied about what happened in Kosovo, Even German defence minister Rudolf Scharping admitted it. Also there was no allow by UN. It was an illegal war of aggression by NATO.

Yugoslavia was composed of 6 republics: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Slovenia. In addition to the six republics, the two separate regions of Kosovo and Vojvodina held the status of autonomous provinces within the Republic of Serbia. Yugoslavia was a mix of ethnic groups and religions, with Orthodox Christianity, Catholicism and Islam being the main religions.

Yugoslavian effort to prevent its disintegration was acceptable decision on the face of it. But Yugoslavian nationalists and politicians made gross miscalculations.

The Conflicts | International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia

www.icty.org

Yugoslavia's Collapse: National Suicide with Foreign Assistance on JSTOR

Robert M. Hayden, Yugoslavia's Collapse: National Suicide with Foreign Assistance, Economic and Political Weekly, Vol. 27, No. 27 (Jul. 4, 1992), pp. 1377-1382

www.jstor.org

Yugoslavian breakup process was very violent and resulted in 6 different countries.

There is a lesson in this case for aspiring nationalists. It is important to understand people around you and respect the strings that hold them together.

 

[Ich]

There is a lesson in this case for aspiring nationalists. It is important to understand people around you and respect the strings that hold them together.

So Donbas and southern Ukraine no "lessons" are allowed? As you can see there is always a flaw in western argumentation.

 

[Vergennes]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1523338488082407424

https://twitter.com/x/status/1523333059348676609

 

[LeGenD]

So Donbas and southern Ukraine no "lessons" are allowed? As you can see there is always a flaw in western argumentation.

You are ignoring the fact that Russia went to great lengths to engineer separatism in these regions. Relevant reports for consultation below:

Lessons from Russia's Operations in Ukraine

Russia's annexation of Crimea was a decisive use of military force toward political ends. But Russia benefited from favorable circumstances that make this hard to replicate. Moscow likely considers its campaign in Eastern Ukraine a strategic success but an unsuccessful operation.

www.rand.org

Full Report: Russian Officers and Militants Identified as Perpetrators of the January 2015 Mariupol Artillery Strike - bellingcat

The full investigation can be downloaded here A collection of intercepted phone conversations that were used as research materials in this investigation can be accessed here Our directory of archived videos of the Mariupol shelling and its aftermath can be accessed here Our map summarizing the...

www.bellingcat.com

Read them.

Russia found it easier to take Crimea but Donbas have mixed population base where many are accepting of Zelenskyy administration. How do you think Mariupol resisted for so long? This is but one location. There are pockets of resistance in other locations as well. Just look at the number of Russian troops involved in this location.

There is a limit to how much commoners can resist by the way. Many are not trained to fight a war. Russia is also forcibly deporting as many commoners as it can to its mainland to give the impression that these are refugees. Some have managed to escape from Russia and exposed this development. Russians will tell you a different story of-course.

Even a Russian source is admitting the obvious:

Fear and Uncertainty For Ukrainians Forced to Flee to Russia - The Moscow Times

After three weeks of sheltering in their basement, Marina, Sergei and their two children, aged 6 and 19, made the difficult decision to flee their home in northeastern Ukraine — but unlike millions of other Ukrainians, they headed east rather than west.

www.themoscowtimes.com

Ukranian refugees in Russia are not happy. They want to leave.

Let me tell you something. You cannot understand an act of oppression until you live through it.