China's new 'carrier killer' for Pakistan's JF-17 Thunder fighter

Viper0011. said:

I agree numbers make sense. I don't think they'll put all SU-35 here. I think they'll put a squadron, supplemented by JFT's two or three squadrons. Which is still not bad actually. Although I'd rather see twin engines in numbers like you suggested.

Similarly, I think there is a need for twin engines in about 60-80 in numbers within the PAF too. The J-31, whenever acquired, will not be a jet for normal, daily flying and CAP stuff. It'll be a special purpose plane knowing how sacred PAF keeps these things. So you'd still need a jet to form the "high" tier.

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Also, there might be some secrets related to SU-35s and newer SU-30s which Russia might not want to showcase to Pakistan in anyway. So, Pakistan being a close partner with Ukraine can easily acquire their 45 Su-27s as they are also keen to sell all of their Russian made equipment ASAP! Source: Ukrainian Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, buying some more Su-27s from operators like Sukhoi Su-27 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is also very much possible and even Russians would be interested in selling it to Pakistan in good numbers. PN can't depend NOW on JF-17s as even PAF has limited the numbers of it to 150 only at max. Which clearly identify that PAF is also keen towards a fighter like SU-27s with more used F-16s Block-15s and may be some additional 32+ F-16s Block-52s.

I am 100% sure that ex-Soviet countries and African countries might sell those SU-27s to PAF and PN at very cheap rates as just to acquire newer Jets from EU, US or even SU-35s or MiG-35s from Russia. As SU-35s or MiG-35s from Russia might not be possible for PAF and PN this time because of some Indian influence and MiG-29s are not worthy for PAF and PN in anyways; so better for PAF and PN to go for used SU-27s with upgrades in avionics similar to SU-35s and gain good experience in those super Russian jets.

I think PAF and PN both have a clear requirement of 100 jets each

Basel said:

PN's request for 30 dedicated JF-17s for Navy have been approved by the govt. so they will have their strike package supported by AWACS & MPAs and escorted by PAF, any strike against IN CBG will be not a solo one it will be combined effort of PN & PAF utilizing whatever they have.

small UAVs like scan eagle can stay on station for hours and can provide targeting data to launching platform of directly to weapon and guess what Pakistan have those.

Dude ever hard of something called Lock On After Launch or LOAL capability?? Its NCW era man and PN have this capability along with PAF.

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I know USA have this. But not sure of this capability with India, Pakistan. That too from an ac. Need to check. Thanks.

Good job

AirRodgers said:

This is how you attack a badly design India AC.. The India carrier is very limited by its design lol an island almost in the middle of the deck, what morron think that a good AC design. This will hamper(slow) the launch and recovery of the 24 mig 29... If Pakistan send say 24 jf 17 toward the India AC and is detected India will launch the migs to intercept. This will take time because of the limitation of the AC.. By the time the migs are launch and heading toward the 24 jf 17, the Pakistani should turn their fighter back home.. This is when the AC is vulnerable, the mig will chase the jf 17 or return to their AC because their fuel is running dry... About this time if Pakistan send in another group of jf 17 toward the India AC, they be without mig protection. The mig in the air need to land to refuel and because of the badly design of the AC it takes them too long to recover and put up a fully fuel mig to defend the carrier from the incoming jf 17..

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black-hawk_101 said:

Also, there might be some secrets related to SU-35s and newer SU-30s which Russia might not want to showcase to Pakistan in anyway. So, Pakistan being a close partner with Ukraine can easily acquire their 45 Su-27s as they are also keen to sell all of their Russian made equipment ASAP! Source: Ukrainian Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, buying some more Su-27s from operators like Sukhoi Su-27 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is also very much possible and even Russians would be interested in selling it to Pakistan in good numbers. PN can't depend NOW on JF-17s as even PAF has limited the numbers of it to 150 only at max. Which clearly identify that PAF is also keen towards a fighter like SU-27s with more used F-16s Block-15s and may be some additional 32+ F-16s Block-52s.

I am 100% sure that ex-Soviet countries and African countries might sell those SU-27s to PAF and PN at very cheap rates as just to acquire newer Jets from EU, US or even SU-35s or MiG-35s from Russia. As SU-35s or MiG-35s from Russia might not be possible for PAF and PN this time because of some Indian influence and MiG-29s are not worthy for PAF and PN in anyways; so better for PAF and PN to go for used SU-27s with upgrades in avionics similar to SU-35s and gain good experience in those super Russian jets.

I think PAF and PN both have a clear requirement of 100 jets each

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you are hilarious... are you expecting they will sell jets to pak @10rs??/

black-hawk_101 said:

Also, there might be some secrets related to SU-35s and newer SU-30s which Russia might not want to showcase to Pakistan in anyway. So, Pakistan being a close partner with Ukraine can easily acquire their 45 Su-27s as they are also keen to sell all of their Russian made equipment ASAP! Source: Ukrainian Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, buying some more Su-27s from operators like Sukhoi Su-27 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is also very much possible and even Russians would be interested in selling it to Pakistan in good numbers. PN can't depend NOW on JF-17s as even PAF has limited the numbers of it to 150 only at max. Which clearly identify that PAF is also keen towards a fighter like SU-27s with more used F-16s Block-15s and may be some additional 32+ F-16s Block-52s.

I am 100% sure that ex-Soviet countries and African countries might sell those SU-27s to PAF and PN at very cheap rates as just to acquire newer Jets from EU, US or even SU-35s or MiG-35s from Russia. As SU-35s or MiG-35s from Russia might not be possible for PAF and PN this time because of some Indian influence and MiG-29s are not worthy for PAF and PN in anyways; so better for PAF and PN to go for used SU-27s with upgrades in avionics similar to SU-35s and gain good experience in those super Russian jets.

I think PAF and PN both have a clear requirement of 100 jets each

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are you alright ?
Ukraine selling su27's sure they have some even some surplus (which may be for sale) but really! the first thing you should under stand these jets are very expensive to run, the par't don't last long and quiet heavy. also they have very old thirsty engines. it would be suicide for Pakistan to but them. them bringing the idea up in a Pakistan meeting will most probably get you sent to the doctors for a mental evaluation. yes it would be very easy to buy second hand su27 as sellers will probably beg you to buy them. you need a lot of money to maintain these jets thats some thing you dont

pakistan is buying a total of 250 jf17's (don't listen to wikipedia) and as of 2015 you have 54+ jf17's not 150.


please talk sense please. heres a good idea (hypothetically) buy about 48 eft along with second hand eft's from other countries such as italy germany, uk,Austria and Spain and upgrade them. this beauty will be more advanced then the su35. the tranche 3a with an tv and the recent ea package. it's also better than india's rafales so thats a plus

size of the Fin. LOL, newer version for better maneuvering

blue marlin said:

whats the difference between the long fin missile and the short fin missile?

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blue marlin said:

are you alright ?
Ukraine selling su27's sure they have some even some surplus (which may be for sale) but really! the first thing you should under stand these jets are very expensive to run, the par't don't last long and quiet heavy. also they have very old thirsty engines. it would be suicide for Pakistan to but them. them bringing the idea up in a Pakistan meeting will most probably get you sent to the doctors for a mental evaluation. yes it would be very easy to buy second hand su27 as sellers will probably beg you to buy them. you need a lot of money to maintain these jets thats some thing you dont

pakistan is buying a total of 250 jf17's (don't listen to wikipedia) and as of 2015 you have 54+ jf17's not 150.


please talk sense please. heres a good idea (hypothetically) buy about 48 eft along with second hand eft's from other countries such as italy germany, uk,Austria and Spain and upgrade them. this beauty will be more advanced then the su35. the tranche 3a with an tv and the recent ea package. it's also better than india's rafales so thats a plus
View attachment 241772

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You are started getting better.

So this 1 Missile can knock out a 3 Billion dollar Carrier ?

[Bregs] said:

Do fighter aircraft have capability to launch a missile capable of destroying an air craft carrier of 44000 tonne capacity ? 100 missile will be required that too by anticipating that AAD of entire CBG including viki is turned off....lol

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A hypersonic missile may not destroy the carrier but it surely can cripple it... The impact itself would be great...


P.S: I'm not expert when it comes to air warfare but why do ppl think that Migs can detect the JF.. While the JF csnt ? JFT currently used KLJV(2) which is comparable the the APGs on our F-16s! The next block will carry an AESA.. Apart from that why are people forgetting that Pak has 8 AWACs that will also backup our Jets.

There's nothing wrong with second-hand Ukrainian SU-27s - these belonged to the USAF:









They've since been sold, after giving up their secrets, but they're still respectable airframes none-the-less. @blue marlin is right though, these are really damn expensive to operate. And Ukraine only has 45 SU-27s, does it really want to mortgage that leverage? For air superiority, that would leave Ukraine with around 80 MiG-29s only - no other air superiority aircraft is in its inventory. I don't think this is a realistic proposition. With Russia's recent behavior, Ukraine needs these more than ever.

Thorough Pro said:

size of the Fin. LOL, newer version for better maneuvering

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Technogaianist said:

There's nothing wrong with second-hand Ukrainian SU-27s - these belonged to the USAF:

They've since been sold, after giving up their secrets, but they're still respectable airframes none-the-less. @blue marlin is right though, these are really damn expensive to operate. And Ukraine only has 45 SU-27s, does it really want to mortgage that leverage? For air superiority, that would leave Ukraine with around 80 MiG-29s only - no other air superiority aircraft is in its inventory. I don't think this is a realistic proposition. With Russia's recent behavior, Ukraine needs these more than ever.

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there not going to be a war the media in the uk is really making is as if we area already at war.

the only secrets they US got from the su27 was its aerodynamics the avionics belong in a museum

gslv mk3 said:

And you really thing the JF 17 can come close to Vikramaditya-Mig 29 s flying BARCAP and Kamov AEW helis
The ship itself packs remarkable AD capabilities - Barak 8 missiles,RAN 40 L/ MF STAR radars.

And thats just the AD of the carrier-P 15 A destroyers will lead the CBG and they too have significant AD systems.

And before thinking about that,think how the AKG would be delivered to the Carrier- which is part of a CBG and is located far away from your coast,You would have to face detection and interception from IAF and IN air arm

Well I would say leave all that and dig this- Mig 29 Ks have a combat radius of 850 kg with full internal fuel and can take off with a load of total 5.5 tonnes from Vikramaditya/Vikrant.

And I need not compare the capabilities of mig29 and JF 17....shall I??

@Water Car Engineer

Nice reply mate.

I guess these guys are getting Paranoid of growing capabilities of IN-which is getting 2 40,000 tonne ACs,more SSBNs and SSKs,more stealth frigates,destroyers and corvettes ( that weigh as much as their destroyers).
heck it is a network centric force with itsown dedicated military communication sat...

Carrier Killer missile...lol

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Sir do you even what is the purpose of an aircraft carrier ? Lol if india is planning to park it 3000kms away then this missile has served its purpose...
Barak 8 is under development...
You can't destroy a mach 4 speed missile with your machine guns lol..
By the way jf-17 will have air cover...and jf-17 with upgraded radar can take on mig 29k coz payload and hardpoints dont win you dog fights

bloo said:

You are interely underestimating a CSG's attack capabilities.
The US Navy Aircraft Carriers

BTW JF-17 engaging a MiG is one thing, winning against it is whole another thing.

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Just Because its name is mig and is operated by some internet troll sorry your navy...

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:

So this 1 Missile can knock out a 3 Billion dollar Carrier ?

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You never fire One missile on an advanced flying jet these days.....let alone on an AC. But 10-20 missiles would do the trick, 10-30% hit ratio is a good expectation. Any AC receiving two good missiles will become useless to operate for the next few months at the least.

No one's going to provide you with a ship manufacturing company in the middle of the ocean (not to mention, in the middle of the war in this case). Once your runway and your STOBAR or CATOBAR hydraulics are hit. Your runway is obviously history for months to comes. Even if incoming missiles hit one half or the center area and say someone was macho enough to still launch some fighters from the shorter run way.....who's going to land them and where??

Also, two missiles if they hit on certain angles and explode at the same time, the blast impact with missiles high speed velocity can alone push the ship over. At that time, the kinetic energy transmitted into metallic structures provides a push forward and the big mass becomes it weakest points as it "tilts" forward (from the side), and tips the entire ship over into the water.

If two missiles hit one of the lower decks, resulting in holes in the hull, the ship will be sunk due to hundreds of metric tons of water, with its own velocity (Ocean Current) pouring in and tilting the ship over or just submerging it. May be 30-40 years from that point on, someone can find it again and turn it into a museum!!

The moral of the story is, Don't fukk with the AShM missiles, specially the supersonic ones!! Make peace and trade, live longer and happily. Fukk all this war drama!!

black-hawk_101 said:

Also, there might be some secrets related to SU-35s and newer SU-30s which Russia might not want to showcase to Pakistan in anyway. So, Pakistan being a close partner with Ukraine can easily acquire their 45 Su-27s as they are also keen to sell all of their Russian made equipment ASAP! Source: Ukrainian Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, buying some more Su-27s from operators like Sukhoi Su-27 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is also very much possible and even Russians would be interested in selling it to Pakistan in good numbers

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If I was the PAF chief and knew what I was doing and was up to speed on Weapons procurement, I'd go in a heart beat and acquire used -16's in serious numbers (like 100 more from the USAF's low flown inventory), compared to buying the SU-27's. That junk is wasting money (on older jets). If the PAF must want to buy SU-27 type aircraft, PLEASE pay more and get the J-11D or the SU-35. SU-27 is a high maintenance plane and has serious issues. Ask the Ukrainians and the Chinese on their earlier batches of SU-27 and SU-30's. And then ask India about their SU-30's.

There is a reason why the entire Indian air-force preferred the Rafale over their current crown jewel, the SU-30. Rafale and SU-30 drama caused a divorce between India and Russia and an engagement between Russia and Pakistan

Technogaianist said:

There's nothing wrong with second-hand Ukrainian SU-27s - these belonged to the USAF:

They've since been sold, after giving up their secrets, but they're still respectable airframes none-the-less. @blue marlin is right though, these are really damn expensive to operate. And Ukraine only has 45 SU-27s, does it really want to mortgage that leverage? For air superiority, that would leave Ukraine with around 80 MiG-29s only - no other air superiority aircraft is in its inventory. I don't think this is a realistic proposition. With Russia's recent behavior, Ukraine needs these more than ever.

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So, is there any possibility that Iranians will buy the SU-27s from Ukraine and may be from China on cheaper price tag. As both are looking to replace. Also, Ukraine might sell them all of the equipment which they have from Russian origin @ very cheap rates.

Iran has very good relationship with Russia. They can easily upgrade the bought equipment in no time. I am sure this will allow the IRIAF to survive it's fleet for the 15 years or less.

But PAF/PNAF is clear now. They are buying 50-60 SU-35s. But I agree with Viper0011. that PAF must go out to shop for more used F-16s from USAF and other AF like Egypt and Jordan both are keen to replace it with new planes. Jordan has 45 of them and they might be getting 100 Rafael or EF-2000s very soon, Egypt might receive new F-16s from US.

PN has already ordered Jf-17.Pakistan is getting all what is available in market for them but select only best.I think PN should stick with 2 squadrons of jf-17 and atleast one squadron of Su-family or j-11D.They should increase jf-17 numbers.
Pakistan should also purchase anti-ship ballistic missiles from china,few months before PN has tested ballistic missile,i pray that its an anti-ship ballistic missile.