Lost Islamic History

[M. Sarmad]

.I have heard Iraqi people talking about Abu Hanifa being the student of Imam Jafar Sadiq but never have I read it on my own...
As for his student that is again never mentioned...

Abu Hanifa was Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (as)'s student, as has been vouched for by Hafidh Ibn Hajar Asqlani, Ibn Ammar Hanbali, Ibn Hajar Makki, Allamah Shiblinji, research scholar Abu Zohra and many others.

Furthermore, Allamah Shibli Numani states:

"Abu Hanifa sat for a long time at Imam Baqir's feet and acquired from him much valuable knowledge of Fiqh and Hadith not available anywhere else. Shia's and Sunni's are agreed that Abu Hanifa derived much of his learning from Baqir. He learned a great deal from the imam's son, Ja'far al-Sadiq also, which fact is generally mentioned in the history books. Ibn Taymeeya, however, denies this on the ground that Abu Hanifa and Ja'far al-Sadiq were contemporaries and equals, which ruled out the probability of the former being the latter's pupil. But I consider this sheer imprudence and lack of comprehension on Ibn Taymeeya's part. For all his greatness as an original thinker and master of fiqh, Abu Hanifa could not compare in learning with Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq. The Ahl'ul bayt were the fountainhead of Fiqh and Hadith and, in fact, all religious learning. "The master of the house knows best what is in it", to quote a well-known Arabic saying". (Imam Abu Hanifa, by Allamah Shibli Numani page 40).


Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah Allamah Shaykh Sharawi Azhari in his famous Egyptian Risala Al Ahraam ul Sunnah page 103 periodical number 32932 wrote:

"The Imam of the Shi'a Imamiya, Hadhrath Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq was the teacher of Imam 'Abu Hanifa. These are the Imamia Ja'fari who as we previously explained adhere to a pure religion. It is with regards to them that our Shaykh Shaltoot issued a fatwa deeming it permissible to follow this madhab because this is a legitimate Islamic madhab, that acts as a source of guidance for its adherents. In Egypt we have incorporated certain principles of Shi'a fiqh on divorce and inheritance into our Law".

Sadly we now have corrupt mullahs who "derive" things from their own brain rather than the Quran and Sunnah and try to justify it using the Quran and Sunnah....

exactly............

 

[Dubious]

I would not argue esp because it is a little funny because some of his rulings are the opposite of Shia so I am not going to comment....further yet those (Hafidh Ibn Hajar Asqlani, Ibn Ammar Hanbali, Ibn Hajar Makki, Allamah Shiblinji, research scholar Abu Zohra and many others.) I do not know of any of them so arguing on something I dont know is not my style...

1 thing I will bring up is the translation of works usually leads to misinterpretation and misguided...

 

[M. Sarmad]

I would not argue esp because it is a little funny because some of his rulings are the opposite of Shia

Imam Malik`s rulings are sometimes quite opposite to that of Imam Abu Hanifa !!! e.g , In maliki school , folding of arms is strictly forbidden during Salat (like jafari school)!! There are a lot of other examples too.....

.further yet those (Hafidh Ibn Hajar Asqlani, Ibn Ammar Hanbali, Ibn Hajar Makki, Allamah Shiblinji, research scholar Abu Zohra and many others.) I do not know of any of them

Ibne Hajar Asqalani was a medieval Shafiite Sunni scholar of Islam who represents the entire realm of the Sunni world in the field of Hadith. He is also known as Shaykh al Islam.... You can just google these names and you will surely come to know that they are "authoritites"

The greatest Muhaddith of Sub continent , Shah AbdulAziz Dehlavi in his famous book "Tuhfatu li isnaashari" went on to say :

“Imam Abu Hanifa (r) was counted amongst the Shi’a of Kufa and he considered Zaid bin ‘Ali bin Husayn to be on the path of truth”(p 25) ............

now isnt that a bit surprising ???

 

[Dubious]

Imam Malik`s rulings are sometimes quite opposite to that of Imam Abu Hanifa !!! e.g , In maliki school , folding of arms is strictly forbidden during Salat (like jafari school)!! There are a lot of other examples too.....



Ibne Hajar Asqalani is the greatest Muhaddith of all times ... You can just google these names and you will surely come to know that they are "authoritites"

The greatest Muhaddith of Sub continent , Shah AbdulAziz Dehlavi in his famous book "Tuhfatu li isnaashari" went on to say :

“Imam Abu Hanifa (r) was counted amongst the Shi’a of Kufa and he considered Zaid bin ‘Ali bin Husayn to be on the path of truth”(p 25) ............

now isnt that a bit surprising ???

Indeed it is esp how the Some Hanifis of South Asia treat Shias

 

[bronxbull]

Bro if you are talking about slatey that is different from these...people engraved in these rocks...not something in todays world...but that only preserved history and reached us...



References? no not Indian people writing after everything happened to satisfy themselves but references of that time period...or any archaeologically certified references...and no not what your school teacher told you...

my school teacher?

this guy lived in 1785,no need for archaeological references.

second,he did a hamla on my province and got rebuffed.

There is more than enough evidence of the temples he demolished and people he forcibly converted.

my grandmom's family escaped from his persecutions and came down south to keep our religion,it is a folklore of the family.

 

[qamar1990]

Bro if you are talking about slatey that is different from these...people engraved in these rocks...not something in todays world...but that only preserved history and reached us...



References? no not Indian people writing after everything happened to satisfy themselves but references of that time period...or any archaeologically certified references...and no not what your school teacher told you...

i was talking about a takhiti

 

[Dubious]

i was talking about a takhiti

thakta as in that chipboard looking word or is this the one where you write and then erase like a miniature blackboard?

my school teacher?

this guy lived in 1785,no need for archaeological references.

in today's world to say something without backing of proof is worthless!

second,he did a hamla on my province and got rebuffed.

then where does the "forcefully converting people by the sword come in"? I talked about evidence for the following words in bold

These people were not the ruling class but when Tipu Sultan invaded Malabar in the late 18th century,he brutally converted hindus under the sword and the moplahs started thinking they ll become the viceroys now.
.

There is more than enough evidence of the temples he demolished and people he forcibly converted..

my grandmom's family escaped from his persecutions and came down south to keep our religion,it is a folklore of the family.

Do you know waht is folklore...usually hearsay words sometimes with mirch masalah...try convincing someone with that "reference"




These people were not the ruling class but when Tipu Sultan invaded Malabar in the late 18th century,he brutally converted hindus under the sword and the moplahs started thinking they ll become the viceroys now.

 

[bronxbull]

u go look at the geography,there are many books written in english/hindi and vernacular tongues about who tipu sultan was?

same with akbar,whitewashed brainwashed history.good for the convert,but brutal for the kaffir.

anyway Talon,it is upto you.

The proof is public memmory and reality.

 

[Leader]

https://twitter.com/x/status/420617149091041281

 

[Leader]

 

[Contrarian]

Wasn't Nalanda the worlds oldest university?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yup.

Nalanda University was the first great university in recorded history - "Prelude to an Asian awakening". Retrieved 13 July 2011.
Fes - "oldest continuously functioning madrasa in the world" - History of Fes

PS - There is a lot to be proud of Fes - certainly. Just that it was not the first.

The University of al-Karaouine or al-Qarawiyyin (Arabic: جامعة القرويين‎) is a university located in Fes, Morocco. The al-Karaouine mosque was founded by Fatima al-Fihri in 859 with an associated school, or madrasa, which subsequently became one of the leading spiritual and educational centers of the historic Muslim world. It was incorporated into Morocco's modern state university system in 1963. It is the oldest existing and continually operating educational institution in the world according to UNESCO and Guinness World Records

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The University of al-Karaouine or al-Qarawiyyin (Arabic: جامعة القرويين‎) is a university located in Fes, Morocco. The al-Karaouine mosque was founded by Fatima al-Fihri in 859 with an associated school, or madrasa, which subsequently became one of the leading spiritual and educational centers of the historic Muslim world. It was incorporated into Morocco's modern state university system in 1963. It is the oldest existing and continually operating educational institution in the world according to UNESCO and Guinness World Records

"oldest existing and continually operating educational institution in the world" - True

There is some dispute about the "university" part.
Oldest functioning "University" - Nanjing University, China
Oldest University - Taxila/Nalanda Source - What are the Oldest Universities in the World? (with pictures)
Oldest university on earth is reborn after 800 years - Asia - World - The Independent
Nalanda The Most Ancient Seat of Learning | Pilgrimage Blog on Speakingtree.in
Taxila - World's first university was established in Takshila - वेद Veda
http://www.cwrl.utexas.edu/~bump/OriginUniversities.html

UNESCO does include Fes as the oldest University in action. Nalanda does not even show up in UNESCO list. That is unfortunate for us, but probably a matter of pride for someone. True - it was completely burnt and destroyed by Ghazi Bakhtiyar Khilji in 1193.

The oldest university - Taxila was established in the fifth century BC.
Nalanda was established in fifth century AD. Both were long before Fes. I am sure plenty of Chinese universities were also there before(they were pioneers in many things).

Besides UNESCO list has certain inaccuracies - http://whc.unesco.org/archive/2013/whc13-37com-8B4inf-en.pdf
So - thats all.

Biggest of all - "dispute whether the term can be properly applied historically to institutions outside the European model." - Verger, Jacques: "Patterns", in: Ridder-Symoens, Hilde de (ed.): A History of the University in Europe. Vol. I: Universities in the Middle Ages, Cambridge University Press, 2003, ISBN 978-0-521-54113-8, pp. 35–76 (35)

 

[M. Sarmad]

UNESCO does include Fes as the oldest University in action. Nalanda does not even show up in UNESCO list. That is unfortunate for us, but probably a matter of pride for someone. True - it was completely burnt and destroyed by Ghazi Bakhtiyar Khilji in 1193.

So what is the discussion about ? UNESCO is surely more authentic than some blogs claiming otherwise .
And no , burning down of educational institutions by anyone is a shame , not a matter of pride

 

[SarthakGanguly]

So what is the discussion about ? UNESCO is surely more authentic than some blogs claiming otherwise .
And no , burning down of educational institutions by anyone is a shame , not a matter of pride

Those were not blogs but news agencies/universities/scholars - I did not mention a single blog.
Anyway - the dates have convinced me Takshila is probably the oldest. If there are no Chinese ones before that. They had many around that time, I am sure, not sure if they had before Taxila ... @Kiss_of_the_Dragon

You know - I am also confused why UNESCO took that stand. But it has taken outrageous decisions before.
They took away the voting rights of Israel and USA and gave full rights to Palestine!!! - Why UNESCO's suspension of U.S. and Israeli voting rights is a dumb move - The Week

I rest my case