Zionists' Endorsement of Genocide - Why Israel Acts the Way it does.

[Chak Bamu]

Zionism is the basis for the state of Israel, and for a many years a right-wing government has been running Israel. Therefore, it is not surprising that Right-wing Religious Zionist views would inform, encourage, and abet Israeli actions.

Here is an opinion piece that was published one website of "Times of Israel". This piece was unusual in that it outlined need for a Genocide and then went on, in a faux innocent tone, whether or not Genocide was the answer to Israel's problem with Palestinians.

Though this article was pulled off the site with an apology, it has been captured by various people and has been circulating on Twitterverse.

It is not the only one such piece, there are many others.

Reprint of Yochanan Gordon's "When Genocide is Permissible"

Notice the last sentence with its 'innocent' question:

"
Permissible
YOCHANAN GORDON AUGUST 1, 2014, 5:36 PM

Judging by the numbers of casualties on both sides in this almost one-month old war one
would be led to the conclusion that Israel has resorted to disproportionate means in fighting
a far less- capable enemy. That is as far as what meets the eye. But, it’s now obvious that
the US and the UN are completely out of touch with the nature of this foe and are therefore not
qualified to dictate or enforce the rules of this war – because when it comes to terror there is
much more than meets the eye.

I wasn’t aware of this, but it seems that the nature of warfare has undergone a major shift over the
years. Where wars were usually waged to defeat the opposing side, today it seems – and judging
by the number of foul calls it would indicate – that today’s wars are fought to a draw. I mean,
whoever heard of a timeout in war? An NBA Basketball game allows six timeouts for each team
during the course of a game, but last I checked this is a war! We are at war with an enemy whose
charter calls for the annihilation of our people. Nothing, then, can be considered disproportionate
when we are fighting for our very right to live.

The sad reality is that Israel gets it, but its hands are being tied by world leaders who over the past
six years have insisted they are such good friends with the Jewish state, that they know more
regarding its interests than even they do. But there’s going to have to come a time where Israel
feels threatened enough where it has no other choice but to defy international warnings – because
this is life or death.

Most of the reports coming from Gazan officials and leaders since the start of this operation have
been either largely exaggerated or patently false. The truth is, it’s not their fault, falsehood and
deceit is part of the very fabric of who they are and that will never change. Still however, despite
their propensity to lie, when your enemy tells you that they are bent on your destruction you believe
them. Similarly, when Khaled Meshal declares that no physical damage to Gaza will dampen their
morale or weaken their resolve – they have to be believed. Our sage Gedalia the son of Achikam
was given intelligence that Yishmael Ben Nesanyah was plotting to kill him. However, in his piety or
rather naiveté Gedalia dismissed the report as a random act of gossip and paid no attention to it.
To this day, the day following Rosh Hashana is commemorated as a fast day in the memory of
Gedalia who was killed in cold blood on the second day of Rosh Hashana during the meal. They
say the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over. History is there to
teach us lessons and the lesson here is that when your enemy swears to destroy you – you take
him seriously.

Hamas has stated forthrightly that it idealizes death as much as Israel celebrates life. What other
way then is there to deal with an enemy of this nature other than obliterate them completely?

News anchors such as those from CNN, BBC and Al-Jazeera have not missed an opportunity to
point out the majority of innocent civilians who have lost their lives as a result of this war. But
anyone who lives with rocket launchers installed or terror tunnels burrowed in or around the vicinity
of their home cannot be considered an innocent civilian. If you’ll counter, that Hamas has been
seen abusing civilians who have attempted to leave their homes in response to Israeli warnings to
leave – well then, your beginning to come to terms with the nature of this enemy which should
automatically cause the rules of standard warfare to be suspended.
Everyone agrees that Israel has the right to defend itself as well as the right to exercise that right.
Secretary General Ban Ki Moon has declared it, Obama and Kerry have clearly stated that no one
could be expected to sit idle as thousands of rockets rain down on the heads of its citizens,
placing them in clear and present danger. It seems then that the only point of contention is
regarding the measure of punishment meted out in this situation.
I will conclude with a question for all the humanitarians out there. Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu clearly stated at the outset of this incursion that his objective is to restore a sustainable
quiet for the citizens of Israel. We have already established that it is the responsibility of every
government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts
determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then
permissible to achieve those responsible goals?"

THETIMES OFISRAEL| The Times of Israel | News from Israel, the Middle East and the Jewish World

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Another one, but who knows how long it shall last on 'Times of Israel' website, because basically this too calls for mass-murder in name of God.


1 Samuel 15:18 | Irwin E. Blank | Ops & Blogs | The Times of Israel
1 Samuel 15:18
IRWIN E. BLANK August 1, 2014, 5:56 pm 9

Irwin E. BlankIrwin was born in New York City and is now retired. He served on the National Administrative Board of B'nai…

1 Samuel 15:18-Samuel said, “Is it not true, though you were little in your own eyes, you were made the head of the tribes of Israel? And the LORD anointed you king over Israel, 18and the LORD sent you on a mission, and said, ‘Go and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are exterminated.’19“Why then did you not obey the voice of the LORD, but rushed upon the spoil and did what was evil in the sight of the LORD?”…

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Saul was anointed king of Israel by G-d and given the mission to join the tribes of Israel as one nation and to protect them against their enemies. This has been the primary job of leaders from the beginning of time-to defend their citizens and national rights before any other obligation. For without security, without the power to protect what is basically, the lives of one’s charges and the land that sustains the people, all else is of less than secondary interest or importance. A nation that will not defend itself, in whatever manner that the “king”, or the president or the prime minister is empowered to do, is not a civilization that will be sustainable nor credible.

There are religious folks that place everything that happens to some esoteric or supernatural dimension, but I, a rather secular man, believe that much of what is in the Hebrew Bible (except for much of the already evidentiary history) as allegorical, and in some manner, presented in order to teach us how to live as a society.

However, the passage from Samuel is an admonishment on the primary duty of a leader. To me, Samuel represents the people of Israel today, questioning and redressing a grievance to the “king,” or, in this case, our prime minister. One might say that the right to redress of grievances as written in many modern constitutional documents, is one of the fundamental rights of a free people in a republic-the inherent obligation of citizens to make their voices heard when their government either fails to carry out a particular policy or fails to adhere to the voice of the electorate that placed them in position of power.

G-d might be meant to illustrate that voice of the people-the vox populi. In this case, G-d had demanded that Saul (or the “prime minister”) enter into battle with the Amalekites (Hamas and its savage partners) and destroy them utterly even if that means to the last child, cow and goat. As cruel as this appears, it is a lesson that teaches a nation in terrible danger that it has a legitimate obligation to put a definite end to a substantial threat. The end of such a conflict must make it impossible for that enemy to rebuild and continue to vex one’s nation forever.

Time and again, throughout Jewish history, we have been told that Amalek will arise in every generation to try to destroy this people. Saul refuses to kill Agag, the king of the Amalekites. In his disobedience, his defying of G-d, is equivalent to our present leadership attempting to fight Hamas while refusing to employ the means to destroy it entirely. By discovering and exploding all the tunnels, or seizing all their arms, is inadequate to assure the utter destruction that is necessary in this war against the Amalekites of today. There must be no quarter given, no “humanitarian ” ceasefires, but a resolute combat without the words and demands of a hateful, hypocritical cabal barking like angry dogs, at our heels.. Because, just as the Amalekites fell upon the rear of the Israelites as they passed through their lands on the way to Canaan, the terrorists will violate every ceasefire, every truce and every politically machined halt to the fighting to retreat and bind their wounds waiting for the next opportunity to attack us.

We have fought for decades against the terrorist threats around us. In 1956, we went to war to eliminate the “fedayeen” (self sacrificers) of that era whose cross border raids into the Negev Desert, killed dozens of innocent Israelis and made life hell for our southern communities.

Again, 58 years later, and several bloody campaigns, thousands of rockets launched into Israel, tunnels dug to enable our enemies to kidnap and murder our people, and the myriad attempts of Hamas and its thugs to bring more and greater weapons of death to their arsenals in order to bleed the people of Israel, we find ourselves in battle with 21st century Amalekites because we have failed to listen to the L-rd, we have failed to kill their king, we have failed to, as Samuel lectured Saul, to “utterly destroy” the foe as the L-rd demanded. As the citizens of the State of Israel demand of their “king.”

Does this mean we, on purpose, kill the innocent? No, that is merely an allegory of Biblical times, an example of the cruelty of ancient warfare. But it does mean that we leave nothing that might sustain a weakened and beaten foe. To destroy Hamas utterly, we cannot stop this war until they unconditionally surrender, even if it means making the war more horrific for the people of Gaza, who are the victims of their own leadership. Just as the Amalekites were the victims of their own king, whom Saul left alive and why today, we fight the modern day Amalekites in every generation.

It’s time to take heed of the words of the L-rd, it is time to do what the people of Israel demand, it is time to kill Agag



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[VCheng]

"If political leaders and military experts
determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then
permissible to achieve those responsible goals?"

There have been many times in human history when such a dire question of "annihilate or be annihilated" has been posed.

 

[Chak Bamu]

There have been many times in human history when such a dire question of "annihilate or be annihilated" has been posed.

But after WW2 and Holocaust and in 21st Century by the same people who had been subjected to the worst mass-murder at the hands of Hitler's totalitarian state? Where is your much-touted realism in this case?

 

[VCheng]

But after WW2 and Holocaust and in 21st Century by the same people who had been subjected to the worst mass-murder at the hands of Hitler's totalitarian state? Where is your much-touted realism in this case?

Actually, if you look at the long term demographics for Israel, the Jews are again in danger of becoming a minority, with all the attendant dangers associated with such a huge change. Long term prospects of such a scenario may come to pass yet, no matter how hard the Israelis try. That is a very real danger that must be terrifying them right now too.

 

[syedali73]

"If political leaders and military experts
determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then
permissible to achieve those responsible goals?"

What was nuclear bomb dropping on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? or what was bombing of Dresden?

 

[Chak Bamu]

Actually, if you look at the long term demographics for Israel, the Jews are again in danger of becoming a minority, with all the attendant dangers associated with such a huge change. Long term prospects of such a scenario may come to pass yet, no matter how hard the Israelis try. That is a very real danger that must be terrifying them right now too.

Israelis will be terrified til who-know-when and in their terror they will keep slaughtering. One day their fears would culminate in a self-fulfilling prophesy.

There are plenty of Jews who are dismayed and disturbed by it all. They do not want their faith, their tradition to be known in reference to Israel's policies.

It is important to differentiate between Jews, Zionists, & Israel. They are each a different thing.

What was nuclear bomb dropping on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? or what was bombing of Dresden?

Or fire-bombing of Tokyo.

It is easy to convince oneself of the inhumanity of foes. So that it is easy to kill them in large numbers without conscience being troubled.

 

[VCheng]

Israelis will be terrified til who-know-when and in their terror they will keep slaughtering. One day their fears would culminate in a self-fulfilling prophesy.

There are plenty of Jews who are dismayed and disturbed by it all. They do not want their faith, their tradition to be known in reference to Israel's policies.

It is important to differentiate between Jews, Zionists, & Israel. They are each a different thing.

Yes, those distinctions are important, but what is even more so is the State of Israel and its policies. In order to avoid this outcome, a two state solution has to be implemented somehow, from their point of view. The article that you posted above is merely one of many such rhetorical questions for discussion. The reality is that Israel knows it cannot kill all of the Palestinians, and that they must given them their own state if Israel is to survive. That is the bottom line. What remains now is to develop the mechanisms for implementation.

 

[syedali73]

It is important to differentiate between Jews, Zionists, & Israel. They are each a different thing.

Brain, heart, lungs, kidneys, intestines, all are different organs with specific function, however, in a body, they work together. Without the body, these organs are useless, and without them, the body wont function. Similarly, the destiny of Jews, Zionsim, and Israel is inter-wined. There may be tens of thousands of Jews who are not Zionists, and don't agree with state's policy, but their dis likeness does not prevent them from pouring cash in to state coffers. Genocide of non-Jews is not something for which they'll let go their claim on Jerusalem or struggle for the restoration of the Kingdom of David. We need to understand that this conflict has much stronger cult or religious foundation than political or social. When it comes to religion, logic always give way. Sacrifice of Ismael by his own father Ibrahim is a classic example of this.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Yes, those distinctions are important, but what is even more so is the State of Israel and its policies. In order to avoid this outcome, a two state solution has to be implemented somehow, from their point of view. The article that you posted above is merely one of many such rhetorical questions for discussion. The reality is that Israel knows it cannot kill all of the Palestinians, and that they must given them their own state if Israel is to survive. That is the bottom line. What remains now is to develop the mechanisms for implementation.

I am not sure that the 2-state solution can now be implemented. The whole world has been supporting it since Oslo accords in 1994(?), but reality is so very changed now because of Zionist settlers, encroachment, and just so much blood-shed.

The Israelis, under the influence of Right wing elements seem to be suffering from a case of severe tunnel vision.

In coming years there will be no 2-state solution. There would be nothing left to negotiate over. It will have to be one apartheid state.

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Apparently this article by Thane Rosenbaum in Wall Street Journal was perhaps even worse:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/thane-rosenbaum-civilian-casualties-in-gaza-1405970362

One has to register to read it. So I can not access it fully, however the following paragraph has been quoted in one of the rebuttals to the said article. The wording is eerily similar and if one were to think about Israeli history, one could apply it in reverse - to Israel in place of Gaza.

"On some basic level, you forfeit your right to be called civilians when you freely elect members of a terrorist organization as statesmen, invite them to dinner with blood on their hands and allow them to set up shop in your living room as their base of operations. At that point you begin to look a lot more like conscripted soldiers than innocent civilians. And you have wittingly made yourself targets."

 

[VCheng]

I am not sure that the 2-state solution can now be implemented. The whole world has been supporting it since Oslo accords in 1994(?), but reality is so very changed now because of Zionist settlers, encroachment, and just so much blood-shed.

The Israelis, under the influence of Right wing elements seem to be suffering from a case of severe tunnel vision.

In coming years there will be no 2-state solution. There would be nothing left to negotiate over. It will have to be one apartheid state.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently this article by Thane Rosenbaum in Wall Street Journal was perhaps even worse:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/thane-rosenbaum-civilian-casualties-in-gaza-1405970362

One has to register to read it. So I can not access it fully, however the following paragraph has been quoted in one of the rebuttals to the said article. The wording is eerily similar and if one were to think about Israeli history, one could apply it in reverse - to Israel in place of Gaza.

"On some basic level, you forfeit your right to be called civilians when you freely elect members of a terrorist organization as statesmen, invite them to dinner with blood on their hands and allow them to set up shop in your living room as their base of operations. At that point you begin to look a lot more like conscripted soldiers than innocent civilians. And you have wittingly made yourself targets."

Despite all the dire predictions we see being thrown about now, I am quite sure a Palestinian State will come into being pretty soon for the first time in history. It is the only logical and inevitable next step, which may take some time to achieve, but happen it will. Demonizing Israel as a genocidal maniac is quite fashionable but far from the truth.

 

[Falcon29]

Despite all the dire predictions we see being thrown about now, I am quite sure a Palestinian State will come into being pretty soon for the first time in history. It is the only logical and inevitable next step, which may take some time to achieve, but happen it will. .

You must be seeing developments that we're not seeing.

 

[Dubious]

But after WW2 and Holocaust and in 21st Century by the same people who had been subjected to the worst mass-murder at the hands of Hitler's totalitarian state? Where is your much-touted realism in this case?

I call it Stockholm syndrome of some form...

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

...
One has to register to read it. So I can not access it fully, however the following paragraph has been quoted in one of the rebuttals to the said article. The wording is eerily similar and if one were to think about Israeli history, one could apply it in reverse - to Israel in place of Gaza.

"On some basic level, you forfeit your right to be called civilians when you freely elect members of a terrorist organization as statesmen, invite them to dinner with blood on their hands and allow them to set up shop in your living room as their base of operations. At that point you begin to look a lot more like conscripted soldiers than innocent civilians. And you have wittingly made yourself targets."

I think that this fails to understand how democracy works.
After Hamas won the election, ~9 years ago, the Palestinians have not had the opportunity to show
their opinion in new elections.
If new elections occur, and Hamas is reelected, only then Palestinians can be "blamed".
This also assumes that elections are free and fair.

If people are executed for criticizing Hamas and their policies, as is rumoured to happen,
then there is not much choice, if Hamas decides to dig a tunnel from your house.

Allowing a tunnel to be built still does not make the civilian a soldier. It does make the civilian house a military target.

If the presence of tunnels and boobytraps in civilian houses can be shown to be a pattern, Israel
then has reason to argue that ALL civilian houses in Gaza are military targets.

Going to be quite complex to determine what is appropriate according to International Law.

BTW: genocide is explicitly NOT applicable to political groups. So killing each and every Hamas member is not genocide according to International Law.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Despite all the dire predictions we see being thrown about now, I am quite sure a Palestinian State will come into being pretty soon for the first time in history. It is the only logical and inevitable next step, which may take some time to achieve, but happen it will. Demonizing Israel as a genocidal maniac is quite fashionable but far from the truth.

Disagree on both counts. We shall see in due course of time.

I have provided a rationale for Israeli behavior and I see no reason to re-assess it. Israeli actions speak for themselves.

 

[invinciblesgunner]

Actually, if you look at the long term demographics for Israel, the Jews are again in danger of becoming a minority, with all the attendant dangers associated with such a huge change. Long term prospects of such a scenario may come to pass yet, no matter how hard the Israelis try. That is a very real danger that must be terrifying them right now too.

So that is good enougj reason to kill? Reduce their population just like that?