Yuan Class coming PN's way?

[TaimiKhan]

i dont think china will be ready to sell you yaun class sub because it has one one of its class sub active and other in testing stage so they may sell you song class

Same used to be said about many other Chinese weapon systems, but we still got them.

So here you would be and are again wrong.

 

[Super Falcon]

song classs is better to remember this song class almost took american aircraft carrier kitty hawk on its torpedos target and americans dont even now the threat of chinese sub they shocked and said we never bellieved than china has latest tech subs american naval subs are nuts thats why noone buy them and remember gotlanad also had a kill over dozens of USN subs in exercise and than USA leased them for one year from swdeen

 

[gogbot]

Same used to be said about many other Chinese weapon systems, but we still got them.

So here you would be and are again wrong.

What Chinese systems does Pakistan Have ?

I only know a few.

And also ha China offered it submarines yet ?

 

[Penguin]

song classs is better to remember this song class almost took american aircraft carrier kitty hawk on its torpedos target and americans dont even now the threat of chinese sub they shocked and said we never bellieved than china has latest tech subs american naval subs are nuts thats why noone buy them and remember gotlanad also had a kill over dozens of USN subs in exercise and than USA leased them for one year from swdeen

Really?

The Type 039 (NATO reporting name: Song class) is the diesel-electric submarine designed by Wuhan Ship Development and Design Institute (701 Institute) for the PLA Navy (PLAN). Construction of the submarine was carried out by Wuhan Shipbuilding Industry Company (also known as Wuchang Shipyard or 438 Factory) in Wuhan, Hubei Province and Jiangnan Shipyard Group Corporation in Shanghai. At least 16 hulls have been delivered to the PLA Navy since 1994.

The first-of-class of the Type 039 submarine No.320 was launched on 25 May 1994 at Wuchang Shipyard, and started sea trials in August 1995. However, the submarine was not fully operational until 1999 due to serious design flaws, including unsatisfactory underwater performance and noise level. After some major redesign work, a modified Type 039G variant (No.321) entered the service in April 2001, followed by the second (No.322) in December 2001 and the third (No.323) in November 2003.

In 2004, Wuchang Shipyard began to construct a further improved variant known as Type 039G1. At the same time, Shanghai-based Jiangnan Shipyard also began to built the Type 039G1 submarine, indicating that the submarine design has been finalised and serial production begun. Since then, a total of 12 boats (No.324~No.326, No.313~No.318, No.327~No.329) have been built

Type 039G/G1 (Song Class) Diesel-Electric Submarine - SinoDefence.com

Rather a checkered history, IMHO

As for SSKs getting close to a carrier, there's not a lot of news in that. This has been a regular feature in exercises for many years. For example, the dutch submarine Walrus (of a slightly more modern type than the 2 Dutch subs built for Taiwan):

23 Feb - 2 Mar 1999: Walrus (2) participates, among other NATO navies and the Brazilian navy, in the exercise JTFEX / TMDI99.

JTFEX / TMDI99 stands for Joint Task Force Exercise / Theatre Missile Defence Initiative 1999. The exercise is held in the Caribbean and on the US main land and has 27000 participants, of which 15000 naval participants. This exercise is the biggest gathering of forces since the Gulf-war, is held from 1 Feb to 4 Mar 1999.

The T-shirt that was designed by the Walrus (2) crew to celebrate the 'sinking' of US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt.

During this exercise the Walrus (2) penetrates the US screen and 'sinks' many ships, including the US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt CVN-71. The submarine launches two attacks and manages to sneak away. To celebrate the sinking the crew designed a special T-shirt. Other ships that are sunk by the Walrus (2) during this exercise are: USS Boise SSN-764, Ro?m DDG-70, R? DDG-61, Ville De Quebec FFH/FFG-332, Stephen W. Grooves FFG-29, Holstein F-216, Vella Gulf CG-55, Mount Whitney LCC-20

http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_walrus2.htm

As for the Kitty Hawk / Song incident:

Rear Admiral Hank McKinney, the former commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet’s submarine force, tells us not to be to hard on the sub-hunters:

Noah, I have no inside information on this event, but it is very difficult to detect a quiet diesel submarine and the Song–class submarines are quality submarines. Operating in international waters in the vicinity of a US battle group is perfectly normal — good operational training.The Chinese very well could have staged this event to make a point about the vulnerability of the Battle Group to submarine attack. The US Navy is fully aware of [those] vulnerabilities…
The Chinese are building a credible submarine force which will make it very difficult for the US Navy to maintain sea control dominance in or near coastal waters off of China.

McKinney concludes with a question: Did the Chinese “stage this event” to coincide with Adm. Gary Roughead’s visit to China? Roughead currently serves as “CINCPACFLT” — Commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet

http://defensetech.org/2006/11/14/behind-the-kitty-hawk-incident-updated/

Besides, the fact that it got there doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't detected. But the Americans couldn't very well sink the Chinese sub it in international waters during peacetime, could they?

 

[Super Falcon]

so he is saying that song class is a quality submarine

 

[gogbot]

Forgive my ignorance but

What Chinese systems does Pakistan Have ?

I only know a few.

And also has China offered it submarines yet ?

Why wont any one answer my questions.

 

[Dazzler]

According to Sir P Shamim, a senior member on Pakdef forum.

" Some recent news during Pakistani's delegation visits to China. I do not know much about Naval affairs but do receive news time to time. Here is one I like to share.

Pakistani delegation visited the latest type-041 “meta”. This submarine is equipped with AIP and with a very low noise level which the Chinese termed as “Black Hole”. They compare it more with the Russian Kilo class. This submarine has newly developed sonar and will be armed with 633 mm torpedoes, submarine launced C-803 long range anti-ship missiles. Capabilities are no less than the U-214 or the Scorpene claimed the Chinese.
Whether this submarine can be transferred quickly, is something Chinese are not sure. 041-type submarines is in the middle of being inducted in Chinese Navy".

 

[Tomahawk]

This submarine has newly developed sonar and will be armed with 633 mm torpedoes, submarine launced C-803 long range anti-ship missiles.

533 mm torpedo tubes.

 

[Penguin]

so he is saying that song class is a quality submarine

Yep. And in many ways it is, certainly compared to Ming. However, he is not saying Song is superior to Yuan. While Yuan has had it's share of problems, it has had nothing quite as severe as Song to warrent a redesign (as was the case with Song).

 

[Penguin]

According to Sir P Shamim, a senior member on Pakdef forum.

" Some recent news during Pakistani's delegation visits to China. I do not know much about Naval affairs but do receive news time to time. Here is one I like to share.

Pakistani delegation visited the latest type-041 “meta”. This submarine is equipped with AIP and with a very low noise level which the Chinese termed as “Black Hole”. They compare it more with the Russian Kilo class. This submarine has newly developed sonar and will be armed with 633 mm torpedoes, submarine launced C-803 long range anti-ship missiles. Capabilities are no less than the U-214 or the Scorpene claimed the Chinese.
Whether this submarine can be transferred quickly, is something Chinese are not sure. 041-type submarines is in the middle of being inducted in Chinese Navy".

633mm is very non-standard. In service tubes for heavy weights are either 533mm or 650mm. Could this be an error?

 

[Dazzler]

Tomahawk

Its not the standard 533 but the newly designed 633 mm tubes. Why would we go for 533 mm platform when we already have them (A-90 B). The person knows what he is talking about. We are looking to induct Babur's naval variant and in need for a launch platform.

 

[Penguin]

Tomahawk

Its not the standard 533 but the newly designed 633 mm tubes. Why would we go for 533 mm platform when we already have them (A-90 B). The person knows what he is talking about. We are looking to induct Babur's naval variant and in need for a launch platform.

Logically, that doesn't make sense: it would have been much easier for the Chinese to adopt the larger 650mm diameter, which is already in Russian and Israeli service, which would fit a larger diameter missile, and which would give the follow on to Yuan the option of using russian 650mm torps and tube launched missiles (rather than go for the unique 633mm.)

You speak of THE newly designed 633mm tubes, as if there is some factual basis and/or evidence of the chinese having developed this caliber tube. If there is, please to provide a link or reference, I would be interested, and I assume so would others.

AFAICT there is no 'type 41' or 'meta' submarine in existence. Would appreciate reference.

 

[Dazzler]

I am as curious as you are buddy! waiting for more details. The source of this news is very reliable (P Shamim). His past predictions have never been wrong sofar so no reason for me to deny this.

 

[Quwa]

AFAICT there is no 'type 41' or 'meta' submarine in existence. Would appreciate reference.

Some sources designate Yuan as Type-041.

 

[TaimiKhan]

The Chinese have not given any designation to their sub, even the Yuan is a NATO designation not a Chinese one. So the Type-041 would most probably be from either NATO or defence enthusiasts, as if NATO has given it a different designation then it would mean that it has a new Type designation also, which may not be the case.

NATO would have given it based on its new or additional design features taking it to be a new class of sub, while Chinese may still be using the Type-039X to designate it to be a sub of the same Song class but an upgraded one.

In future we would be clear what it is in reality.