Your views about Invasions of India

[Dr Gupta]

There was a very intelligent wise Persian ruler who translated a book in various languages ' A meeting of the 2 Oceans'
If you chaps get a chance to read it I would recommend it.


Dara Shikoh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's how sub-saharans too ended up all over the world. Is it something to be proud of? Hmm..



The problem with South Asians. We pass off opinions as facts. You could say "in my opinion".

Yes as my grandfather was one of them who landed in Kenya ( the lord works in mysterious ways) now look at the UK Census - some of the most successful business people in UK, USA are the very same people.

Dara subsequently developed a friendship with the seventh Sikh Guru, Guru Har Rai. Dara devoted much effort towards finding a common mystical language between Islam and Hinduism. Towards this goal he completed the translation of 50 Upanishads from its original Sanskrit into Persian in 1657 so it could be read by Muslim scholars.[14] His translation is often called Sirr-e-Akbar (The Greatest Mystery), where he states boldly, in the Introduction, his speculative hypothesis that the work referred to in the Qur'an as the "Kitab al-maknun" or the hidden book, is none other than the Upanishads.[15] His most famous work, Majma-ul-Bahrain ("The Confluence of the Two Seas"), was also devoted to a revelation of the mystical and pluralistic affinities between Sufic and Vedantic speculation.
The library established by Dara Shikoh still exists on the grounds of Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University, Kashmiri Gate, Delhi, and is now run as a museum by Archeological Survey of India after being renovated

 

[Maira La]

actually that Nazi phase is among the few 'cultural'/ racial phases of volence in german history. A lot of their wars were on political issues. The Islamic tendencies are not a 20th century phenomenon, in fact it was a factor that decided how patel looked at the partition. He was quite happy with it and had commented that getting rid of martial (restive) races would be on the whole good for stability of India. He, Mountbatten and Maulana Abul Kalam azad had predicted that internal factionalism would lead to the partition of Pakistan in about 25 years - like clockwork that happened too.
The question is - was a superior cultural heritage coming in- no.

You know nothing about European history. Mongols, Europeans and East Asians have fought some of the most horrifying wars in human history, along with industrial scale genocides. Read what the Romans did to Carthage.

You are here today because Muslims did not do the same to you. Nor did Muslims treat you the way Mongols treated the Muslims (read about Baghdad, Nishapur, Samarkand).

Read what the Europeans did to indigenous American civilizations. Or what Europe did to the Jews, starting with the Romans. Or how the Chinese annihilated the Dzungars.

Or how the Japanese treated foreigners (Chinese) on their first invasion of overseas territories.

Or how the Vedic people enslaved all local indigenous people as low caste untouchables.

So how is it that Muslims are singled out to be the "bad guys" of history? Even though independent India killed more Sikhs than Aurangazeb did to crush opposition? It's politics. You needed a historical enemy for national unity.

@Raja.Pakistani

@Atanz Since you're such a history freak , would you be interested in creating a thread listing all Muslim/Central Asian/Middle Eastern/Persian influence in Indian culture, food, attire, civil administration, architecture, language? Or maybe pass the message to someone else who might be interested?

 

[Dr Gupta]

Dara Shikoh was a intellectual and a patron of the arts, I consider him a visionary in some ways.

Maybe everything happens for a reason? who knows

 

[Maira La]

Dara Shikoh was a intellectual and a patron of the arts, I consider him a visionary in some ways.

Maybe everything happens for a reason? who knows

One of Aurangazeb's son also defected to the Marathas. The Mughal-Maratha war wasn't really a Muslim vs Hindu war as many like to depict. Some of Aurangazeb's most powerful generals were Hindus. It was a fight for empire, the ailing Mughal empire losing it's grip to a new emerging power.

However the Muslim vs Hindu thing fits the current political narrative. Vilifying Islam as the inspiration for Aurangazeb's ruthless suppression of revolts adds more ammunition to the Hindutva arsenal.

 

[Dr Gupta]

In destruction, creation is born. The world too will be destroyed in the end and just like the passing of the dinosaurs we humans will also vanish.

One of Aurangazeb's son also defected to the Mughals. The Mughal-Maratha war wasn't really a Muslim vs Hindu war as many like to depict. Some of Aurangazeb's most powerful generals were Hindus. It was a fight for empire, the ailing Mughal empire losing it's grip to a new emerging power.

However the Muslim vs Hindu thing fits the current political narrative. Vilifying Islam as the inspiration for Aurangazeb's ruthless suppression of revolts adds more ammunition to the Hindutva arsenal.

I agree with you to some extent but he did use forced conversion and temple desecration as a tool, but yes both had Hindu and Muslim generals under them.

THE DEMOLITION OF A TEMPLE IS POSSIBLE AT ANY TIME, as it cannot walk away from its place.
Aurangzeb


The Portuguese colonial administration enacted anti-Hindu laws to encourage conversions to Christianity. Laws were passed banning Christians from keeping Hindus in their employ, and the public worship of Hindus was deemed unlawful.[15] Hindus were forced to assemble periodically in churches to listen to preaching or to refutation of their religion.[16][17]
The viceroy ordered that Hindu pandits and physicians be disallowed from entering the capital city on horseback or palanquins, the violation of which entailed a fine. Successive violations resulted in imprisonment.


In my view the Spanish and Portuguese were far more brutal to the likes of the British.

During this period we had great Sufi saints like Kabir and the Bhakti movement took fold which had a profound effect in India.

 

[Bang Galore]

History of invasion of India is complex and there might be different opinions of any positive or negative impact of all these invasions of India in past. It was certainly not as hinduvata interpret that Indians were all one people and suddenly all Islamic invaders came and destroyed everything. Some of these invasion brought new ideas and substantially enriched Indian culture and had its impact on art, architecture,language, music, dresses, food etc.

Do Indians( especially those belong to dharmic faith) views all invaders or invasions in negative light? If that's the case then why they dont keep any enmity towards the countries where these invaders came from. I am referring to Invaders with Persian, arab, turks, Afghan, Mughals, British, Portuguese origin etc . what do you think which race of invaders were more cruel toward India or Indians?

The invaders themselves were never liked, regardless of whether it was Alexander or Babur or the British......Indians could still appreciate & they do, some of the kings who may have been of a later generation of any such families that decided to stay on. Akbar & Sher Shah Suri are two obvious examples even if the latter ruled for merely 5 years. In Indian history, only the names of two Kings are followed by the epithet "The Great". One was Asoka & the other Akbar, one a Buddhist & the other, Muslim. On the other hand asking for appreciation of a bigot like Aurangazeb would not get any traction, what to say of invaders like Mahmud of Ghazni, Muhammad Ghori, Timur, whose only imprint were of loot & massacres.

 

[volcano]

Dude you are like me if you dont care what happened century ago and live in reality of present world. I started this topic for two reasons

Most Indians of dharmic faiths have friendly relationship with countries or people where these invaders came from but they keep hate and bigotry for their own race because they are following the religion Islam. Its like you are brother of actual criminals and taking his revenge from your own race because they share same religion and are in minority in your country so thats bit twisted logic which i could not comprehend but at the same time i wanted to know the opinion of Indiand about them whether they paint everyone with same brush.

well,we donot have any enemity towars persians,afgans,turks,brits or anyone. The reason why we have differences with some muslims are bcz they are slaves of religion. simple as that. They glorify and workship invaders who attacked their own motherland. You pakistanies are a living example for that be it babur timur or any one. They all attacked your motherland and killed your forefathers.But you guys just look at the religion but never at who they were. Other religions are different in that aspect. No indian christian consider brits or portugies as some sort of 'christian heros'. They consider them as who they are. Invaders looters colonisers.

 

[Bang Galore]

One of Aurangazeb's son also defected to the Marathas. The Mughal-Maratha war wasn't really a Muslim vs Hindu war as many like to depict. Some of Aurangazeb's most powerful generals were Hindus. It was a fight for empire, the ailing Mughal empire losing it's grip to a new emerging power.

However the Muslim vs Hindu thing fits the current political narrative. Vilifying Islam as the inspiration for Aurangazeb's ruthless suppression of revolts adds more ammunition to the Hindutva arsenal.

Auragzeb was a bigot. He just inherited the Hindu commanders, wasn't going to start a war with everyone. Clear when one reads about Aurangzeb son Akbar who revolted & was encouraged to do so by the Rajputs who told him that he could be similar to his great grandfather rather than the bigot his father was.

There is no particular reason for us to single out Aurangzeb when other Mughals don't get the same treatment. His brother Dara Shikoh, who was killed by Aurangazeb is widely regarded as being completely different in character. Aurangzeb stands out because he was a bigot, that is what adds a religious dimension to what were, as you pointed out, battles between kings.

 

[navtrek]

Islamic Invasions of india brought superior civilization, culture, and values to the land. They were a good thing, in the hindsight.

British colonialism was exploitative and disastrous. Unlike Muslim rules, Brits never saw india as "their" home. They just saw it as a girl to be r@ped brutally. While Islamic leaders saw india as their home..their only home. And did alot for its progress.

How buddy can you justify the above statement with facts ?

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Invasion of India can be both good or bad. But Aryan invasion is the most terrible. It brought caste system which still poison India today.

 

[StormShadow]

Islamic Invasions of india brought superior civilization, culture, and values to the land. They were a good thing, in the hindsight.

That superior civilization if it is followed by majority of a country's population, even today, is bleeding that country. On the other hand, India is developing and stable. So, it's only by gods grace that this karma bhumi is the only nation that did not fall for the desert inbreds.

 

[Anuj Tagra]

History of invasion of India is complex and there might be different opinions of any positive or negative impact of all these invasions of India in past. It was certainly not as hinduvata interpret that Indians were all one people and suddenly all Islamic invaders came and destroyed everything. Some of these invasion brought new ideas and substantially enriched Indian culture and had its impact on art, architecture,language, music, dresses, food etc.

Do Indians( especially those belong to dharmic faith) views all invaders or invasions in negative light? If that's the case then why they dont keep any enmity towards the countries where these invaders came from. I am referring to Invaders with Persian, arab, turks, Afghan, Mughals, British, Portuguese origin etc . what do you think which race of invaders were more cruel toward India or Indians?

By India,i understand you mean the current day India alone and not the whole subcontinent mass including Pakistan?

I want to know from you whether a bloody invasion is indeed necessary for all those new found things to come here?
Today you eat Pizza/wear suit/boot etc etc,did it happen only because England rule over the subcontinent?

Well the Japanese also do all that and they don't seem to have been enslaved ever.

Trade/commerce connections are more than good enough for all these ideas to flow,no amount of these fringe benefits is enough to give one's own sovereignty to someone else.

Indian people were trading with Mesopotamia/Rome since time in memorial and these ideas were always coming around,India was never insular.

I dont think the Persians ever tried to wanted to invade India since they come from an advanced civilization and they didn't lack natural resources also.

The Arabs/Turks/Mughals/Portuguese killed the maximum people and changed the demographics of the land and worst of all desecrated out temples and out faith and we will never ever forget that.

The English were indeed the most cunning but their agenda was business & materialistic not religious.

Islamic Invasions of india brought superior civilization, culture, and values to the land. They were a good thing, in the hindsight.

British colonialism was exploitative and disastrous. Unlike Muslim rules, Brits never saw india as "their" home. They just saw it as a girl to be r@ped brutally. While Islamic leaders saw india as their home..their only home. And did alot for its progress.

This is only for Indians of Dharmic faith,you are neither.

so you hate all of them ? All of them were evil ? India seem to have good relationship with all these countries who invaded them in past
Btw do you also feel same about emperor Ashoka, Maurya and many other Hindu or Bhuddist emperors who tried hard to spread their religion and culture

Ashoka tried to spread Buddhism but Chandra Gupta Maurya never tried to spread anything.He only brought the society and the government back to stable inertia.

 

[halupridol]

Loaded question in op,,

 

[Norwegian]

Islamic Invasions of india brought superior civilization, culture, and values to the land. They were a good thing, in the hindsight.

Superior civilization? Like what?

 

[Anuj Tagra]

British rule was exploitative and they may took more than what they delivered but still they introduced concept of democracy in India and left behind good network of transportation, proper governance, educational institutes with emphasis on international language English., proper penal code and well trained army and then abolishing evil practices i.e satti(burn widows alive), female infanticide, injustice based on caste discrimination etc so many positive as well


But you keep this enmity for some peopel of your own race who are Muslim now and you blame them for crimes of these invaders belong to others races ..Thats what surprise me that India/Indians enjoying political alliances and relationship with those coutures who invaded India in past whther iran/persia or afghan and blaming your own race because they share same religion with them

The british did whatever they did for their own benefits,their actions were aimed at optimizing their own needs and noboddy else's,even today they were exactly like that.

There is a perception that they are less disliked than the others but thats relative,not absolute.

British rule was exploitative and they may took more than what they delivered but still they introduced concept of democracy in India and left behind good network of transportation, proper governance, educational institutes with emphasis on international language English., proper penal code and well trained army and then abolishing evil practices i.e satti(burn widows alive), female infanticide, injustice based on caste discrimination etc so many positive as well


But you keep this enmity for some peopel of your own race who are Muslim now and you blame them for crimes of these invaders belong to others races ..Thats what surprise me that India/Indians enjoying political alliances and relationship with those coutures who invaded India in past whther iran/persia or afghan and blaming your own race because they share same religion with them

Well the stand of Pakistan is that,they have redefined themselves and are looking westwards whereas we indians are always looking inwards ever always.

Moreover,those invader countries such as Saudia/Iran are oil producers and India is an oil consumer,both need each other.

There is no love for Saudia but we see Iran way more positively because We never had any hostility with the Iranians.

Is it true that portuguese destroyedmany temples?..Your historians dont have good view of nader shah and taimur .what was their race?

Portuguese were amongst the most horrible,even renaissance could not cure of them of their religious bloodlust.

Do Indians( especially those belong to dharmic faith) views all invaders or invasions in negative light? If that's the case then why they dont keep any enmity towards the countries where these invaders came from. I am referring to Invaders with Persian, arab, turks, Afghan, Mughals, British, Portuguese origin etc

and

To answer your questions in simple language Raja,the invasions for both religious & economic reasons,a fertile laidback place like India was always going to game,when muslims(i mean turks & arabs) were doing crusades and playing with gun powder,us Indians were turning buddhist and at max doing chaku talwar baazi,so baraabari kahaan se ayega?

Did those invaders changed your views or policies towards country or race of their origin?

Absolutely not,all the Indian people of dharmic origin/castes/tribe have a millenium long civilizational ties with their own biradari.

Then i dont understand the hinduvata philosophy and their bigotry for Indian Muslims their own race who often bash them for adopting the religion of inavders

Thats because Islam/Christianity escpecially in the subcontinent is not just a religious/spiritual idenity but also a clearly defined political identity,it decides what u do,whom u marry.how the rules are for you and so on.

A Christian/Muslim convert has to eat non vegetarian food especially beef,cannot wear bindi,cannot keep their ancestral surname/gotra,cannot keep names in hindi/sanskrit/desi languages etc etc.

so you know very well who acted first and who reacted next?