Yemen: Pakistan's right policy vs. wrong direction

[Providence]

pakistan sending it's troops to do border patrols is a very very bad idea from a tactical point of view.

 

[Pulsar]

I suggests Pakistan deploy at least 3000 soldiers on Yemen KSA border to discourage any adventurism by Houthies and Qaida against our Saudi brothers.

If on the other hand Houthies do not agree, then Pakistan should deploy combat troops in the port of Aden and expand from there.

Bad idea! You don't mind your soldiers shedding their blood for the sake of Arabs? Are you not aware that they want to outsource their war to someone else? That's because they think your soldiers are an expendable commodity. Arab blood is too holy to shed! And needless to say, Arabs cannot fight. So they want the PA to do the dirty job for them.

Once the PA puts their boots on the ground, the Arabs will heave a big sigh of relief as they can then go back to their climate controlled living rooms, switch on their giant 3D smart screen TVs, sit back on their velvet sofas with a bucket of popcorn and kababs and enjoy the battle unfolding in Yemen!

Bottom line: The Arabs are treating you like doormats but you don't seem to care. I fail to understand how fighting what essentially is an Arab war serves you national interests?

 

[FaujHistorian]

... I'm against of our soldiers deploy in land to land fight with militants ( both youthies/AQ).

bhai

Thank you.

what you say is the decision of commanding officers of PA and not yours or mine.

Please trust the professionals.

Bad idea! You don't mind your soldiers shedding their blood for the sake of Arabs? !

bhai

Please do not forget that Indian Pakistani BDeshi soldiers die while doing UN peace keeping ops in far away war torn countries.

This is the same situation.

 

[Pulsar]

bhai

Please do not forget that Indian Pakistani BDeshi soldiers die while doing UN peace keeping ops in far away war torn countries.

This is the same situation.

Are you trying to compare UN peace keeping missions with Arabs outsourcing their war to Pakistan? C'mon fauji bhai, you can do better than that!

 

[Zarvan]

I suggests Pakistan deploy at least 3000 soldiers on Yemen KSA border to discourage any adventurism by Houthies and Qaida against our Saudi brothers.

However this should accompany by a ship load of food and medicine for Yemenies.

Pak navy should have strong presence around port of Aden to ensure that Houthies know we are there to help them move out of major cities and in return provide food and medical assistance to Yemenies.

If Houthies agree, Pakistan can ensure that air bombing is stopped soon.

If on the other hand Houthies do not agree, then Pakistan should deploy combat troops in the port of Aden and expand from there.

I agree we need to deploy 30000 Soldiers and Rangers and Marines along with Frigate and Submarine and may be missile boats as well as squadron of JF-17 but don't go in

 

[FaujHistorian]

Are you trying to compare UN peace keeping missions with Arabs outsourcing their war to Pakistan? C'mon fauji bhai, you can do better than that!

UN too "outsources"!

Let's not be selective in our "critical" statements.

 

[Gunsnroses]

These are very sane suggestions. Judging by what you've said, it seems you and I are on the same page about what we'd like to achieve.

Peace above all, with as little of a cost as possible. And at the same time maintain relations with all, and help build relations if the time should come with all parties and help them build relations with each other.

I've seen the wrong motivation in this debate too, the wrong pro-interventionist motivation is purely to uphold relations, to please the GCC and to act upon understated threats, or to involve ourselves simply because of us seem to have weird complexes when it comes to Arabs. The wrong motivation for staying out as much as possible, is the anti-GCC approach, most of our liberals, yours truly included might not see some aspects of our affairs with these countries as too good a thing. The idea that we should chose between Iran and the Saudis is also false.

Now, the proper motivation in my mind is as stated above; peace, easy and cheap, painless, while still maintaining if not improving relations.

I think it would not be a bad or unreasonable thing to send troops to Saudi territory, away from any fighting, no fighting role, no aid to the war effort besides 'peacekeeping', symbolic placement of troops, maintaining some sort of idea of security of the Saudi state without getting ourselves involved in the war effort. Not even such simple a thing as logistical support.

When considering the Pak army's role in KSA, and their armed forces, many of our men current and former have been involved in training there among other roles, so a symbolic deployment of a small force should not be looked at with as much hostility.

However, I would like to see Pakistan maintain the image of neutrality, with this we should be looking for what little ties we have with Iran and their affiliates to help come to a peaceful revolution. And with troop deployment and over stated commitment to the Saudis might compromise any such position Pakistan may be willing to pursue.

Now here I have to start dealing with ground realities of the war itself, whether or not we extend such symbolic gestures.

The GCC will be fighting an insurgency in foreign land, they have the money for it and the capacity in terms of fuel. However, what they do not have is the numbers for any large scale deployment, I do not see effective deployment of numbers following the bombing even with combined armies of those involved. These armies are also not mature in this field, they have not fought much at all, and they certainly have not seen anything like combating an insurgency which is a different beast. The Houthis are not to be underestimated, their numbers are very convincing.

The numbers they can field are not convincing for their role. What have we in Pakistan learnt for the war here, and the war just next to us? To combat an insurgency like this you need to have enough combat troops for combat roles deployed to maintain a very healthy ratio for the size of the area they are tasked to deal with, and a very healthy ratio for the size of the foe they are tasked to take on. I may add here, that the hard part of this not winning territory, and pushing them back a few months from now, no that's easy. Holding, and making a lasting presence is an impossible task, I can say with confidence that IF the Houthis have real local support, IF they are playing the sectarian game, and if the Saudis play that game too... If that happens, expect years of war and years of deployment. Again conditions along with casualties in general that I do not believe the GCC militarises can sustain.

If the war takes a sectarian turn, which it undeniably did, long, long ago. This was will be far uglier, Iraq should be a fine example. And under this condition, I do not see even our intervention or even US intervention any good, this will make the war unwinnable.

With that in mind, I am dead-set against any combat roles inside Yemen for our boys, not even active support.

I agree with the rest, efforts to cool the situation and look after humanitarian interests is both right and within our interests.



We can't pretend relations with these countries is not important to us. It is important to us, and some degree of involvement, even if it's as neutral as possible, with the overall aim of peace, acceptable and agreeable for most if not all, is not a bad way to go.

This is however, me being optimistic. The chances of finding peaceful resolutions of this sort in the Middle East are not likely at all.

Good points but what will be the definition of being neutral? What will be the fine line?

 

[Sugarcane]

If we can't take stand as per our wish in this kind of critical matters than concerns of world about us having nuclear weapons are legitimate. If GCC can't understand our problems, our interests and the war of survival which we are fighting at home --- Thanks to the ideology they exported, funds they provided to radicals and insurgents ---- and they can't tolerate our neutral stand --- which is not actually neutral because other than sending our soldiers to fight war of Arabs, we have agreed to give weapons, and join if KSA's is under attack --- and continue with their arrogant and threatening attitude than Pakistan have two option,

1) Have some self-respect and swallow the bitter pill, face the economic troubles for now and in long run emerge as respected independent country and earn credibility of being responsible nuclear state.

2) Put the pants down and bend over as usual, and in long run enforce the doubts of world that our nukes are at service of monarchs who are engaged in proxy wars, games of influence, responsible of exporting extreme version of Islam and funding radicals, hence are global threat. And be ready for excuses and propoganda to slap swear economic sanctions to force us to surrender the weapons in other words deffer the current crisis to create worse crisis.

As we have already sucked enough of ummah lollypop, now it's time that we stick to our right decision and opt scenario 1 and strive to stand on our own feet. I will agree with @Hyperion suggestion that if Arabs can't understand our situation and want to take the game to next level than go ahead and recognize Israel - have friendly relations with her and use her influence to bring koshar Jew investments to cover up economic set back, if monarch can join Israel for their interests than why the fcuk we can't for our benefits.

 

[Pulsar]

UN too "outsources"!

Let's not be selective in our "critical" statements.

The UN is not a country. It is an international organization. The mission and work of the United Nations are guided by the purposes and principles contained in its founding Charter.

Whereas Saudi Arabia is a country ruled by the whims of the House of Saud, which represents no one.

 

[FaujHistorian]

The UN is not a country. It is an international organization. The mission and work of the United Nations are guided by the purposes and principles contained in its founding Charter.

Whereas Saudi Arabia is a country ruled by the whims of the House of Saud, which represents no one.

you are trying to develop new definition for outsourcing.

Here is a reference for you.

"
to procure (as some goods or services needed by a business or organization) under contract with an outside supplier
"

Thus by definition India, Bdesh, Pakistan all get "outsourced" business.

Hope you understand now.

......
As we have already sucked enough of ummah lollypop,

Oh bhai jaan

Those who are opposed to Pakistani intervention are the ones sucking that lollypop from both ends.

you have it backwards.


Yemen ops are purely strategic decision. OIC and Ummah has nothing to do with it if Pakistan wants to go in.

It is Ummah freaks who are freaking out against Pakistani army's help for KSA.

 

[Sugarcane]

Oh bhai jaan

Those who are opposed to Pakistani intervention are the ones sucking that lollypop from both ends.

you have it backwards.


Yemen ops are purely strategic decision. OIC and Ummah has nothing to do with it if Pakistan wants to go in.

It is Ummah freaks who are freaking out against Pakistani army's help for KSA.

Your grasping skills has become rusted. Polish them.

As GoP have already made decision to serve Arab lords and sacrifice blood of Pakistanis to make the chosen one secure, so there is no point in discussing my opinion any more, and purpose of this thread is also over. Enjoy being strategic dirty laundry washer ya rafiq.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Your grasping skills has become rusted. Polish them.

As GoP have already made decision to serve Arab lords and sacrifice blood of Pakistanis to make the chosen one secure, so there is no point in discussing my opinion any more, and purpose of this thread is also over. Enjoy being strategic dirty laundry washer ya rafiq.

bhai jaan

itna personal honay ki kya zaroorat hai

 

[wiseone2]

pakistan sending it's troops to do border patrols is a very very bad idea from a tactical point of view.

Why are border patrols a bad idea ? They can get picked off by inflitrators.

 

[SBD-3]

Really ? yemen or GCC is your poor neighbour in need of bread. Last I checked they attacked a sovereign nation and have more advance weapons then we do.

Why should we get involved in war that has nothing to do with us ?

Hauties is a rebel group backed by Iran. And Yamen's sovereignty was first violated by Hauties who working for notorious designs of Tehran, outsted the legitimate government of Yemen. Hauties are Mailita like ISIS and Taliban who carry no moral or legitimate authority.

bhai jaan

itna personal honay ki kya zaroorat hai

Some people are so aligned with Tehran that had they had choice they would even start praying facing Tehran than Makkah. Hauties have no one supporting them except Ayatullah and Co. Hauties are at fault and they will have to disarm themselves.

bhai

Please do not forget that Indian Pakistani BDeshi soldiers die while doing UN peace keeping ops in far away war torn countries.

This is the same situation.

That is perfectly hallal because it doesn't involve anything against Iran.

 

[Winchester]

We can't pretend relations with these countries is not important to us. It is important to us, and some degree of involvement, even if it's as neutral as possible, with the overall aim of peace, acceptable and agreeable for most if not all, is not a bad way to go.

This is however, me being optimistic. The chances of finding peaceful resolutions of this sort in the Middle East are not likely at all.

Obviously they are important !

Hence the deployment of Pakistani troops within Saudi Arabia is probably the best course of action.

What the OP is suggesting that if peace efforts fail which they most likely will Pakistan in his words "should deploy combat troops in the port of Aden and expand from there."

Seeing the shift and the pressure being applied since yesterday plus knowing the history of our political as well as military leadership this scenario might well happen.

That is to put it mildly highly disturbing.