Yemen: For Pakistan, There Was a Better Way to Say No to Saudi Arabia & Emirates

[MastanKhan]

Yemen: A terrible decision by Pakistani parliament and Pakistani military

They say that there is more than one way to skin a cat and I say than there was more than one way to have said 'NO' to the Saudis and the Emiratis. We should have thrown the ball in their court and then let them say Yeah or Nay to it.

It would have been, to put forward a package, plain enough and sincere enough to let the friends have the choice of saying a 'NO' rather than us saying 'NO'----but if they decided to say 'YES', then it would have been a win win situation for the troika.

Here is what my proposal would look like---. Pakistan military would supply 2 division of force on the run to begin with leading upto 2 corps strength of force deployed in the region

There will be a treaty signed between the 3 countries that:---

1. any military threat on one be considered the same as a threat on other country

2. the 2 major financial partners ie Saud Arabia & The Emirates would fund the creation of 2 corps strength military force, man material and training

3. the partners would fund the purchase of naval frigates, training and maintenance of the said items

4. for the navy at least 6-8 frigates of the most recent chinese F22 type, 4 type 054 type frigates, 2 type 052 frigates / destroyer

5. 4 submarines

6. 2 to 4 sqdrns strength of JF 17's with aesa

7. armor to compliment 2 corps strength of troops

8. helicopters and troop carrier gunships preferably MI 35's

9. general command and control centers and all complimentary paraphernalia to maintain and manage the corps, naval and flight wing

10. a development of military cantonment at Gwadar port

All these troops and personal will start training in Pakistan and then will be deployed in either Saudi Arabia or Emirates.

These troops will also have fresh recruits of Saudi and Emirati heritage---trained in Pakistan right from day one and to fight and to speak the Pakistani language, Urdu, Punjabi, Pashto, baluchi, english etc etc etc. They will be wearing Pakistani military uniform with the Pakistani flag and the flag of their nation displayed on the uniform.

These Saudi and Emirati troops will deploy where their regiment is stationed. The same goes for the navy recruits and for the air force personal.

In this conflict in Yemen---the importance of a strong naval fleet should be obvious on the Saudis and the Emiratis as well as Pakistan, as well as a strong naval air force wing, but the most important part was the feet on the ground---the troops that could land in the zone of conflict to take charge of the situation.

All the weapons systems for the troops will be either produced by Pakistan, or if purchased from other sources then those already operated by the Pakistanis.

We cannot wait till an actual act of terrorism occurs in those nations. We need to take a pro-active approach to the problem and not like what we have done in Pakistan---taken 14 years to acknowledge the issue.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Approx $10 is what you are asking for.

Plus a mutual defence treaty.

 

[Javed Husnain]

You said that there was a better way. Who knows the truth? Some news sources claimed that Pakistan has already sent troops and some says blah blah, at the end of the day war is not the solution. After all we (Pakistani) has to pay the price.

 

[MastanKhan]

Approx $10 is what you are asking for.

Plus a mutual defence treaty.

Hi,

That is just the cost to do the business. In real time----things will move at warp speed---so fast that it will be shocking to admit that, how they happened.

The issues in Syria and Iraq has shown how under prepared the militaries of the region are to face a threat like the isis, al Qaeda, boko haram, ttp.

The time of " IT IS NOT MY WAR " has gone years ago. The issue is not if the conflict will spill over but how fast and when the conflict will spill over.

The question that one needs to ask then is---does one act pro-active and strike at the source head or wait for the situation to spill over in your yard.

The radicals have already decided what they are going to do---today---tomorrow--one year from today. The question now is---do we have the courage, the dedication, the gumption to comprehend the problem and meet it head on their turf before it reaches our turf.

This $10 sum is nothing for what is at stake. What needs to be done is to visualize the consequence----just create a picture---a scenario and then you will be better able to judge what is at stake and what can happen and what the consequences will be.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Only, if things were that simple Mastan bro.

 

[MastanKhan]

Only, if things were that simple Mastan bro.

Sometimes simple solutions are answer to complex problems.

 

[graphican]

Yemen: A terrible decision by Pakistani parliament and Pakistani military

They say that there is more than one way to skin a cat and I say than there was more than one way to have said 'NO' to the Saudis and the Emiratis. We should have thrown the ball in their court and then let them say Yeah or Nay to it.

It would have been, to put forward a package, plain enough and sincere enough to let the friends have the choice of saying a 'NO' rather than us saying 'NO'----but if they decided to say 'YES', then it would have been a win win situation for the troika.

Here is what my proposal would look like---. Pakistan military would supply 2 division of force on the run to begin with leading upto 2 corps strength of force deployed in the region

There will be a treaty signed between the 3 countries that:---

1. any military threat on one be considered the same as a threat on other country

2. the 2 major financial partners ie Saud Arabia & The Emirates would fund the creation of 2 corps strength military force, man material and training

3. the partners would fund the purchase of naval frigates, training and maintenance of the said items

4. for the navy at least 6-8 frigates of the most recent chinese F22 type, 4 type 054 type frigates, 2 type 052 frigates / destroyer

5. 4 submarines

6. 2 to 4 sqdrns strength of JF 17's with aesa

7. armor to compliment 2 corps strength of troops

8. helicopters and troop carrier gunships preferably MI 35's

9. general command and control centers and all complimentary paraphernalia to maintain and manage the corps, naval and flight wing

10. a development of military cantonment at Gwadar port

All these troops and personal will start training in Pakistan and then will be deployed in either Saudi Arabia or Emirates.

These troops will also have fresh recruits of Saudi and Emirati heritage---trained in Pakistan right from day one and to fight and to speak the Pakistani language, Urdu, Punjabi, Pashto, baluchi, english etc etc etc. They will be wearing Pakistani military uniform with the Pakistani flag and the flag of their nation displayed on the uniform.

These Saudi and Emirati troops will deploy where their regiment is stationed. The same goes for the navy recruits and for the air force personal.

In this conflict in Yemen---the importance of a strong naval fleet should be obvious on the Saudis and the Emiratis as well as Pakistan, as well as a strong naval air force wing, but the most important part was the feet on the ground---the troops that could land in the zone of conflict to take charge of the situation.

All the weapons systems for the troops will be either produced by Pakistan, or if purchased from other sources then those already operated by the Pakistanis.

We cannot wait till an actual act of terrorism occurs in those nations. We need to take a pro-active approach to the problem and not like what we have done in Pakistan---taken 14 years to acknowledge the issue.

I do not think what Saudis asked and what Pakistan told was as simple we are assuming. Saudis did not ask to "take your time" and beef up our defense but rather, send your troops to defend Saudi territory ASAP. Answer to that could not have been such a strategic development in which submarines, frigates and 2-4 squadrons of JF-17s could be negotiated.

Our limitation is that our troops are busy fighting a war in Zarb-e-Azab and now Operation Kyber-1. Karachi is also in the middle of an operation and we cannot withdraw troops from Indian border any time. You can only have these many fingers in a hand and you cannot do more if all 5 are busy. It doesn't matter if opportunity of strategic development was there or not, we are at a time were we cannot offer any help unless we put equal or more risk on the defense of Pakistan.

Sometimes simple solutions are answer to complex problems.

When simple solutions are applied to complex problems, you end up simplifying your problem - but - by compromising on all the aspects which you decided not to solve.

 

[Finer]

Sometimes simple solutions are answer to complex problems.

Not in this case especially with the deep-rooted sectarian policy goes back to the ancient history which always comes into the picture. The simpler solution for deep-rooted sectarian policy is not ideal for the nations that are involved as the new age of world is dreamed at the expense of aging world in ruins.

 

[MastanKhan]

I do not think what Saudis asked and what Pakistan told was as simple we are assuming. Saudis did not ask to "take your time" and beef up our defense but rather, send your troops to defend Saudi territory ASAP. Answer to that could not have been such a strategic development in which submarines, frigates and 2-4 squadrons of JF-17s could be negotiated.

Our limitation is that our troops are busy fighting a war in Zarb-e-Azab and now Operation Kyber-1. Karachi is also in the middle of an operation and we cannot withdraw troops from Indian border any time. You can only have these many fingers in a hand and you cannot do more if all 5 are busy. It doesn't matter if opportunity of strategic development was there or not, we are at a time were we cannot offer any help unless we put equal or more risk on the defense of Pakistan.



When simple solutions are applied to complex problems, you end up simplifying your problem - but - by compromising on all the aspects which you decided not to solve.

Hi,

It is understandable what their requirements were----. But you have to have a face saving option always---. One must not just assume the answer---.

What if they had said yes to the proposal---a down payment towards the project would have started the ball rolling---.

In the U S---do you think that everyone that comes to a car dealership is ready to by a car----. No---not even half of those that came to see---but drove they off in a new car----.

You have to make a presentation of your case as if the other person is ready to sign on the dotted line---. Let them say no----give them the right to say yes or no---let them make the decision---let them face the consequences of a no---let them reap the benefits of a yes--you just put it on the platter.

If they say yes---temporarily you are out of a division r two---but in a short time---you will have 50,000 troops to chose from in case of an emergency.
The problem with Pakistani military high command is that they do not have a DEVILS ADVOCATE. They live in a tunnelled vision---their horizons are not very broad---. They simply don't understand why their experties and commitment are in high demand.

If the al Qaeda or isis or TTP has no boundaries, no national barriers, no ethnic barriers---then why does the pak military have imposed those restraints upon itself.

Does the pak military really really believe that if it left them alone elsewhere---the terrorists will let them prosper---. If such is the case---then that is an illusion just created out of short-sightedness and of not understanding the consequences.

The enemy has already won in yemen---you people don't even realize that----the enemy has achieved its first and second target---and the third target.

It has achieved its first goal in yemen---it has achieved its second goal due to the rift created between Pakistan and its two benefactors and allies---Saudi Arabia ad Emirates---.

It is a master piece of a chess move---it is the most classical of the chess moves---put a stake right thru the heart of the relationship of Saudi Arabia, emirates and Pakistan without even breaking a sweat---.

They have separated Pakistan from its staunchest allies and made it stand alone---sand-witched between Iran on one side and India on the other side---that was the third target.

Someone---tell me who is the fool over here---.

Not in this case especially with the deep-rooted sectarian policy goes back to the ancient history which always comes into the picture. The simpler solution for deep-rooted sectarian policy is not ideal for the nations that are involved as the new age of world is dreamed at the expense of aging world in ruins.

Sir,

I do not know much about you or from your posts to respond to what you want to say. Please put a little more effort and if there is a detailed response---maybe I can respond to it in a better manner.

 

[HAIDER]

Yemen: A terrible decision by Pakistani parliament and Pakistani military

They say that there is more than one way to skin a cat and I say than there was more than one way to have said 'NO' to the Saudis and the Emiratis. We should have thrown the ball in their court and then let them say Yeah or Nay to it.

It would have been, to put forward a package, plain enough and sincere enough to let the friends have the choice of saying a 'NO' rather than us saying 'NO'----but if they decided to say 'YES', then it would have been a win win situation for the troika.

Here is what my proposal would look like---. Pakistan military would supply 2 division of force on the run to begin with leading upto 2 corps strength of force deployed in the region

There will be a treaty signed between the 3 countries that:---

1. any military threat on one be considered the same as a threat on other country

2. the 2 major financial partners ie Saud Arabia & The Emirates would fund the creation of 2 corps strength military force, man material and training

3. the partners would fund the purchase of naval frigates, training and maintenance of the said items

4. for the navy at least 6-8 frigates of the most recent chinese F22 type, 4 type 054 type frigates, 2 type 052 frigates / destroyer

5. 4 submarines

6. 2 to 4 sqdrns strength of JF 17's with aesa

7. armor to compliment 2 corps strength of troops

8. helicopters and troop carrier gunships preferably MI 35's

9. general command and control centers and all complimentary paraphernalia to maintain and manage the corps, naval and flight wing

10. a development of military cantonment at Gwadar port

All these troops and personal will start training in Pakistan and then will be deployed in either Saudi Arabia or Emirates.

These troops will also have fresh recruits of Saudi and Emirati heritage---trained in Pakistan right from day one and to fight and to speak the Pakistani language, Urdu, Punjabi, Pashto, baluchi, english etc etc etc. They will be wearing Pakistani military uniform with the Pakistani flag and the flag of their nation displayed on the uniform.

These Saudi and Emirati troops will deploy where their regiment is stationed. The same goes for the navy recruits and for the air force personal.

In this conflict in Yemen---the importance of a strong naval fleet should be obvious on the Saudis and the Emiratis as well as Pakistan, as well as a strong naval air force wing, but the most important part was the feet on the ground---the troops that could land in the zone of conflict to take charge of the situation.

All the weapons systems for the troops will be either produced by Pakistan, or if purchased from other sources then those already operated by the Pakistanis.

We cannot wait till an actual act of terrorism occurs in those nations. We need to take a pro-active approach to the problem and not like what we have done in Pakistan---taken 14 years to acknowledge the issue.

Free oil for next 10 years and payoff all debts Pakistan ow to others. Plus unconditional support by all means on Kashmir cause. For every down soldier in line duty will get a 300 thousand dollars
But Pakistan army can not control a terrain similar to Afghanistan. Plus Yemenai carries more gun then Afghans.

 

[Finer]

Sir,

I do not know much about you or from your posts to respond to what you want to say. Please put a little more effort and if there is a detailed response---maybe I can respond to it in a better manner.

If you are not familiar with the history, then Google is your friend. Knowing the complex situation dating back to ancient history, one must dig in a ancient history to understand this dilemma.

 

[sonicboom]

Sir:
You are offering a long term solution. But for current situation, a symbolic or token offering could have placated the Saudis and reassured it of Pakistan's ongoing commitment. By not doing that, Pakistan have lost a golden opportunity to gain billions of dollars as a payback which could have been used to acquire hardware for our armed forces.
Regards

 

[MastanKhan]

If you are not familiar with the history, then Google is your friend. Knowing the complex situation dating back to ancient history, one must dig in a ancient history to understand this dilemma.

Hi,

Let us just google everything and don't come to this web-site. Alright guys----.

 

[B@KH]

Only Losers could think of a Deal with a Dying Elephant.

The problem is the SHIA OIL in wahabi hands.

Saud is told to extract and suckle as much as possible before its death just like the potohar region was suckled by the british the first well dug still gives only 2 barrels of oil per day.

The Parliament can't Vote to attack another country that has no enmity with our nation.

This Parlimentarian Vote was done only to deceive the Nation while the Traders already had military boots on ground to protect the dying Monarchy.

All supporters of Monarchy despite their all out war mongering will be Losers in END.

Free oil for next 10 years and payoff all debts Pakistan ow to others. Plus unconditional support by all means on Kashmir cause. For every down soldier in line duty will get a 300 thousand dollars
But Pakistan army can not control a terrain similar to Afghanistan. Plus Yemenai carries more gun then Afghans.

Look. Saud is on its death bed and all those who go with it will have same fate. The terror groups fighting Pak are proof of that and they are part of the new arrangements which are in the pipeline. So Pak should take care of its own people and country.

Above all, It is illogical to even think to send military on Rent for invasion of other country.

Pakistan is one of the few capable nations in the world. No one talks about utilizing its capacities and developing its people. All talk about begging and trading. they dance with joy on grants and aid while it is shame for a nation with high capabilities. china aid, Saudi aid, us aid etc.

Just make Pak Tax Free and let people to build their nation. Make health and education based on insurance mandatory for all. State should charge people for rendering various services. Corruption will End in months and capital outflow will reverse. Stop Squeezing the people and nation.

This begging attitude of getting alms and grants and free things is shame and disastrous for the Nation.

Rest Assure, if the relations with Saudi are not cut off, Our future generations will be more vulnerable to disasters.

Pak will soon send its military to Jordan or Saudi for war against Syria. yemen is secondary. it is now decades of slavery of monarchy and we are heading to the bottom.

Yemen: A terrible decision by Pakistani parliament and Pakistani military
They say that there is more than one way to skin a cat and I say than there was more than one way to have said 'NO' to the Saudis and the Emiratis. We should have thrown the ball in their court and then let them say Yeah or Nay to it.
It would have been, to put forward a package, plain enough and sincere enough to let the friends have the choice of saying a 'NO' rather than us saying 'NO'----but if they decided to say 'YES', then it would have been a win win situation for the troika.
Here is what my proposal would look like---. Pakistan military would supply 2 division of force on the run to begin with leading upto 2 corps strength of force deployed in the region
There will be a treaty signed between the 3 countries that:---
1. any military threat on one be considered the same as a threat on other country
2. the 2 major financial partners ie Saud Arabia & The Emirates would fund the creation of 2 corps strength military force, man material and training
3. the partners would fund the purchase of naval frigates, training and maintenance of the said items
4. for the navy at least 6-8 frigates of the most recent chinese F22 type, 4 type 054 type frigates, 2 type 052 frigates / destroyer
5. 4 submarines
6. 2 to 4 sqdrns strength of JF 17's with aesa
7. armor to compliment 2 corps strength of troops
8. helicopters and troop carrier gunships preferably MI 35's
9. general command and control centers and all complimentary paraphernalia to maintain and manage the corps, naval and flight wing
10. a development of military cantonment at Gwadar port
All these troops and personal will start training in Pakistan and then will be deployed in either Saudi Arabia or Emirates.
These troops will also have fresh recruits of Saudi and Emirati heritage---trained in Pakistan right from day one and to fight and to speak the Pakistani language, Urdu, Punjabi, Pashto, baluchi, english etc etc etc. They will be wearing Pakistani military uniform with the Pakistani flag and the flag of their nation displayed on the uniform.
These Saudi and Emirati troops will deploy where their regiment is stationed. The same goes for the navy recruits and for the air force personal.
In this conflict in Yemen---the importance of a strong naval fleet should be obvious on the Saudis and the Emiratis as well as Pakistan, as well as a strong naval air force wing, but the most important part was the feet on the ground---the troops that could land in the zone of conflict to take charge of the situation.
All the weapons systems for the troops will be either produced by Pakistan, or if purchased from other sources then those already operated by the Pakistanis.
We cannot wait till an actual act of terrorism occurs in those nations. We need to take a pro-active approach to the problem and not like what we have done in Pakistan---taken 14 years to acknowledge the issue.

Hi,
wahabis are hijacking Pakistan and making it the Enemy of Islamic IRAN and the Shias.

who will guarantee the security abroad and at home.

China ?

 

[Kao Boy]

You said that there was a better way. Who knows the truth? Some news sources claimed that Pakistan has already sent troops and some says blah blah, at the end of the day war is not the solution. After all we (Pakistani) has to pay the price.

Joint Military exercise took place but no actual deployment took place...

Pak and Saudi are long standing allies or rather were, I am sceptical about the relation after denial of Pakistan Government to take part in offence. Pakistan should have agreed on to provide reserve force based in Saudi to interfere only when there is a direct threat from anyone to Saudi territory.. This way Pakistan would have kept the promise without taking part. I believe that's what KSA did in IRAN - IRAQ war...