Y-20 heavy transport aircraft News & Discussions

[grey boy 2]

Awesome pictures of Y-20

 

[UKBengali]

Awesome pictures of Y-20

Will look so much better when WS-20 is fitted.

 

[sinait]

Will look so much better when WS-20 is fitted.

WS-20 though more powerful and fuel efficient, but not better looking to me.
For looks, I prefer slimmer look of D-30KP.
WS-20 look bulky.
.

 

[Imran Khan]

engines damn engines

 

[Beast]

engines damn engines

I can bet they are not the same Russian D30kp2 engines as many assume. They are domestic WS-18 with uprated thrust.

Even WS-20 enter services, PLAAF still need steady flow of WS-18 engines to re equipped H-6K bomber. The WS-20 oversize engine cannot fit into the fuselage of H-6K bomber.

 

[waja2000]

I can bet they are not the same Russian D30kp2 engines as many assume. They are domestic WS-18 with uprated thrust.
Even WS-20 enter services, PLAAF still need steady flow of WS-18 engines to re equipped H-6K bomber. The WS-20 oversize engine cannot fit into the fuselage of H-6K bomber.

I think China already in development for new stealth bomber, so future H6 series will retire too. so maybe no need WS-18 .. unless WS-18 also use for new stealth bomber.

 

[Beast]

I think China already in development for new stealth bomber, so future H6 series will retire too. so maybe no need WS-18 .. unless WS-18 also use for new stealth bomber.

H-6k are brand new build recently in 2015-2017. They are not as what you claim going to retire soon. They are highly modern with powerful radar and datalink. PLAAF definitely need many WS-18 for bomber and Y-20 in foresee future. WS-18 replaced the old turbojet that will give them longer range and more thrust.

 

[Deino]

Do You have any prove that they are using WS-18 ???

 

[Beast]

Do You have any prove that they are using WS-18 ???

I didn't say they are definitely WS-18 but if some suggest WS-18 is a temporary engine project waiting for WS-20. Then they are dead wrong. Can WS-20 fit into new H-6K bomber? No.
Will PLAAF depend on Russia for D30kp2 engine supply of engine for next 10years? No.

Now do you have prove they are definitely Russian imported D30kp2 engine? Remember how you are proven wrong of Russian imported AL-31F engine on operational J-20.

 

[Deino]

1. I didn't say they are definitely WS-18 but if some suggest WS-18 is a temporary engine project waiting for WS-20. Then they are dead wrong.
2. Can WS-20 fit into new H-6K bomber? No.
3. Will PLAAF depend on Russia for D30kp2 engine supply of engine for next 10years? No.

My answers in RED !
1. The fact that the WS-18 is maybe a fall-back-option if the WS-20 is delayed does not mean they already use it and a suggestion by "some" is no prove and even more if even Chinese sources say the current Y-20As are using imported engines.
2. No, but the H-6K is irrelevant to the current Y-20 since they will replaced by the new bomber.
3. YES for sure they will, they have to if the WS-20 is delayed and especially even more there was just a sale of 224 D-30KP2 in July 2016.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2212133.html

And interesting deal was just announced: In July 2016 China ordered 224 D-30KP2 engines from Saturn, worth 658 Mio. US$. This is actually the third contract following the two previous contracts for 55 D-30KP2 between 2009-2011 and 184 engines in September 2011 making altogether a purchase of 463 D-30KP2. This type of engine is used by the PLAAF for the Il-76MD/TD, the Il-78, H-6K and for the initial batch of Y-20.

Now do you have prove they are definitely Russian imported D30kp2 engine? Remember how you are proven wrong of Russian imported AL-31F engine on operational J-20.

So You are still dreaming !

 

[Beast]

My answers in RED !
1. The fact that the WS-18 is maybe a fall-back-option if the WS-20 is delayed does not mean they already use it and a suggestion by "some" is no prove and even more if even Chinese sources say the current Y-20As are using imported engines.
2. No, but the H-6K is irrelevant to the current Y-20 since they will replaced by the new bomber.
3. YES for sure they will, they have to if the WS-20 is delayed and especially even more there was just a sale of 224 D-30KP2 in July 2016.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2212133.html






So You are still dreaming !

Wrong wrong wrong.

WS-18 is not a fall back option. You seems to lack basic military tech. WS-20 is a oversized engine that cannot fit into modernized H-6K fuselage. It clearly show PLAAF planned WS-18 and H-6K in long terms Plan of PLAAF doctrine. H-6k is not bomber that will just go away just becos new H-8 come into service. It is the longest range stand off launching platform for PLAAF and basically a bomb truck for conventional bombing if needed.

Looking at how many H-6K are build. It will not retired in just a mere few years time. H-6K and H-8 are going to complement each other in PLAAF strategic. WS-18 are needed to supply H-6K bomber to ensure they are not going to depend on foreign supply for anytime.

J-20 are not using Russian imported AL-31F engine but domestic engine are facts. CCTV documentary already proves you are dead wrong. I don't need a foreigner tell me how to read Chinese of a Chinese documentary. If you want to be selective and be a slayer of China by listening to your so called fake Chinese source go ahead. You claimed they are reputable source? It just one side of your wishful thinking. You want me to play back the video from YouTube and teach you Chinese on interpretion of the info for J-20 engine?

Or you want to claim you as a German knows Chinese Better than mine?

 

[Deino]

Can You at least for once stay on topic and answer a question or even more give an argument ??

First of all, none of Your arguments is related to the question: DOES THE CURRENT Y-20 USE THE WS-18?? So just admit You don't know and everything 's fine.

1. to the WS-18 itself: a more than 30 years old engine reverse-engineered can only be a fall-back-option. What else should it be??
Yes for sure the H-6K will need engines for some time and maybe will get the WS-18 some day, but for now why this new large deal ?? To store them in a hall and wait similar to the dozen of J-10B the PLAAF is not using like You suggested?

2. again the new bomber: I never said the H-6K will retire tomorrow and they surely have a few more years to fly. But first the new bomber is still years away - by the way it will never called H-8 (so much on Your knowledge !) and these will be the last H-6s replaced but they will always rely on this old, dated design with its small diameter.

So the WS-18 will eventually be the replacement for the Russian D-30KP2 and a fall-back-option for the WS-20 is delayed. But for now neither the current Y-20A nor the H-6K uses the WS-18; period.

PS: and the J-20 issue we should really leave out since it is not relevant You don't seem to be interested in arguments.

PPS: And why again these nationalistic rants ??? Even if You are a Chinese and can read Chinese that does not mean You understand everything. Your endless list of faults and errors, false assumptions and wrong claims is testimony. But again let's leave agree to disagree as long as You stay on topic and argue.

 

[Beast]

Can You at least for once stay on topic and answer a question or even more give an argument ??

First of all, none of Your arguments is related to the question: DOES THE CURRENT Y-20 USE THE WS-18?? So just admit You don't know and everything 's fine.

1. to the WS-18 itself: a more than 30 years old engine reverse-engineered can only be a fall-back-option. What else should it be??
Yes for sure the H-6K will need engines for some time and maybe will get the WS-18 some day, but for now why this new large deal ?? To store them in a hall and wait similar to the dozen of J-10B the PLAAF is not using like You suggested?

2. again the new bomber: I never said the H-6K will retire tomorrow and they surely have a few more years to fly. But first the new bomber is still years away - by the way it will never called H-8 (so much on Your knowledge !) and these will be the last H-6s replaced but they will always rely on this old, dated design with its small diameter.

So the WS-18 will eventually be the replacement for the Russian D-30KP2 and a fall-back-option for the WS-20 is delayed. But for now neither the current Y-20A nor the H-6K uses the WS-18; period.

PS: and the J-20 issue we should really leave out since it is not relevant You don't seem to be interested in arguments.

where did you get the proof of WS-18 engine is delayed and it's real timeline?

WS-18 is not a mere 1:1 copy of D30kp2 engine. It will be incoprated with new tech to increase the thrust and lifespan. Aircraft fitted with WS-18 will have improvement over aircraft fitted with D30kp2.

ok, can you prove the engine on y-20 and H-6k are Russian imported D30kp2 engines?

Finally if you think deleted my comment about J-20 engine while your reply stay shows more or less of your insecure and failure to rebuke my point.

 

[Deino]

where did you get the proof of WS-18 engine is delayed and it's real timeline?

WS-18 is not a mere 1:1 copy of D30kp2 engine. It will be incoprated with new tech to increase the thrust and lifespan. Aircraft fitted with WS-18 will have improvement over aircraft fitted with D30kp2.

ok, can you prove the engine on y-20 and H-6k are Russian imported D30kp2 engines?

Top Your first two parts:

1. irrelevant, even an improved D-30KP2-based WS-18 can never be better than a new WS-20. Or at least do You have other prove?
2. No I cannot prove that the Y-20 and H-6K are Russian using imported D30kp2 engines, but there are more than enough Chinese reports that say so and none says a WS-18 and then there are the confirmed sales of these engines. So again for what if there is a super-WS.18?

Therefore I try it again !!
- why are even Chinese sources speaking of "it is using imported engines" - aka imported D-30KP2?
- why was there a huge new purchase just last year if there's no need as You say? (see link above)
- why is there with no word anything mentioned on the WS-18? (if it should be ready like You suggest)

3 simple questions ... can't be too difficult to answer.

 

[Beast]

Top Your first two parts:

1. irrelevant, even an improved D-30KP2-based WS-18 can never be better than a new WS-20. Or at least do You have other prove?
2. No I cannot prove that the Y-20 and H-6K are Russian using imported D30kp2 engines, but there are more than enough Chinese reports that say so and none says a WS-18 and then there are the confirmed sales of these engines. So again for what if there is a super-WS.18?

Therefore I try it again !!
- why are even Chinese sources speaking of "it is using imported engines" - aka imported D-30KP2?
- why was there a huge new purchase just last year if there's no need as You say? (see link above)
- why is there with no word anything mentioned on the WS-18? (if it should be ready like You suggest)

3 simple questions ... can't be too difficult to answer.

Which is the Chinese source?

How big is big? Is it enough to fulfill all H-6K, new Il-76/78 joinining the fleet plus replacement of old D30kp2 plus new Y-20 joining the fleet?

I never say Ws- 18 is going to be better or replace Ws-20 but can Ws-20 replace Ws-18 for H-6k? No.
Can ws-18 fulfill Y-20 for strategic need, yes. PLAAF do not have 72 tons mbt to ferry around unlike USAF.

Is brand new H-6k going to just retired in a few years time? No.