Y-20 heavy transport aircraft News & Discussions

[samsara]

Cheers!!!

View attachment 689885

Why were you so mean, only took a beer for this? Next time I'll show you (take a pic of) my Guizhou Maotai at the right occasion ha ha ha

 

[Figaro]

You have still immature jet engine industries dear

You still have immature jet engine industries dear, first make a decent low bypass turbofan, WS-10 have a relatively high bypass turbofan and your WS-15 project started in early 2000 and its still not finished, Russian have no money but they have lots of experience in turbofan tech, they are developing turbofan since mid 70s , then you were only copying old Russian/Soviet tubojets in that era

At this point, China's engine industry is very close to that of Russia, if not on par. The latest WS-10 variant delivers performance comparable to the Saturn 117S, the most advanced Russian turbofan currently in operation. Regarding the WS-15, the development cycle of such engines does take an extremely long time ... especially a clean sheet design. Just look at the Idz-30 or the F119 timetables for comparison (the F135 does not count because it is based off the F119). We have news that the WS-15 has already been flight tested, so incorporation into the J-20 should not take much longer. The point is that currently all major Chinese aircraft are using Chinese engines and that really says a lot of their progress in the gas turbines.

 

[LKJ86]

Maybe the real pics of Y-20 equipped with WS-20 have not been exposed yet, as @燃烧的哈尔科夫 had posted that one we know already in July 27, 2020:

 

[Deino]

Maybe the real pics of Y-20 equipped with WS-20 have not been exposed yet, as @燃烧的哈尔科夫 had posted that one we know already in July 27, 2020:
View attachment 690066

That's indeed strange....

 

[LKJ86]

That's indeed strange....

There are still no ones to dare do that now.

 

[LKJ86]

You have still immature jet engine industries dear

So, China chose the mature AL-31 and D-30 at the beginning.
And now, what new mature engines does Russia have, by comparing with China?

 

[aliaselin]

It is said WS20 is the same technology level of CFM56-7 but same thrust as 5b3. this is really good news as if US is mad and do not export Leap1C we can produce aircraft a little better than 737NG with WS20 as stop gap

 

[JSCh]

China's Y-20 strategic transport aircraft gets key indigenous engine: reports
By Liu Xuanzun Source: Global Times Published: 2020/11/22 19:08:21

A Y-20 transport aircraft makes a flight demonstration during an activity celebrating the 70th founding anniversary of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) air force in Changchun, capital of northeast China's Jilin Province, Oct. 17, 2019. (Xinhua/Lin Hong)

China's Y-20 strategic transport aircraft are finally getting its long-awaited domestically developed engines, which recently made their first public appearance, multiple media reports speculated recently. The new engines are expected to boost the Y-20's key performances including range and cargo capacity, in addition to reducing reliance on imported engines, experts said on Sunday.

Despite the new development hasn't been officially confirmed, several signs point to key progress being made in the WS-20 engine over the past weeks, according to media reports.

Earlier this month, the Xi'an Aircraft Industry (Group) Company Ltd under the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China, the maker of the Y-20, released a photo that showed a turbofan engine with a high bypass ratio that had never been seen before, Beijing-based Aerospace Knowledge magazine reported on Saturday.

This unidentified engine is very likely China's domestically developed WS-20, and if this speculation is true, it is the first time the WS-20 has made a public appearance in an official media source, the magazine said.

In a recent China Central Television (CCTV) military program, Chinese military experts also revealed some new information on the WS-20. The report, quoting military expert Song Xinzhi, said that compared with the D-30, the Russian engine currently being used on the Y-20, the Chinese engine is much larger in diameter, and can provide more powerful thrust, uses less fuel, and enables the Y-20 to take off and land at airfields with shorter runways.

Speculation has it that the Y-20 has already begun to switch to the new engines, the CCTV report said.

A photo circulating on Chinese and foreign social media, allegedly showing a Y-20 equipped with four WS-20 engines in a test flight, drew the attention of military enthusiasts on Saturday.

The eventual use of the WS-20 engine on the Y-20 will give the aircraft a longer operational range and a larger cargo capacity thanks to its higher bypass ratio and greater thrust, a military expert who asked for anonymity told the Global Times on Sunday.

With the domestically made engines, the Y-20 can become capable of long-range or intercontinental flight while carrying heavy equipment like main battle tanks without stopping at a transit airfield for refuelling, the expert predicted, noting that a Y-20 equipped with WS-20 engines should be considered the true form of the aircraft.

It will also reduce China's reliance on imported military aviation engines, and become another milestone in China's aviation engine development, which used to be a weak link in the country's aviation industry, the expert said.

This is not the only new development related to the Y-20 this month. Recently, an aerial tanker variant of the Y-20 was spotted in the sky in an apparent aerial refueling maneuver for a J-20 stealth fighter jet, media reported last week.

A Y-20 pilot said earlier this year on CCTV that the Y-20 will have variants like the Y-20 aerial tanker and Y-20 aerial early warning aircraft.

The new engine could also be used on these Y-20 variants, analysts said.

It has been a busy year for the Y-20, as several of this type of aircraft joined in the fight against COVID-19, first domestically at the start of the year, then later in other parts of the world. It also participated in missions including sending Chinese troops and heavy equipment to the Russian Kavkaz-2020 strategic military drills in September, and also in September for the repatriation of remains of Chinese soldiers killed in the Korean War (1950-53).

 

[White and Green with M/S]

So, China chose the mature AL-31 and D-30 at the beginning.
And now, what new mature engines does Russia have, by comparing with China?

Both countries are using interim engines for their 5th gen jets because one have no money to research, and you have lack of experience to design and build engines from scratch

especially a clean sheet design. Just look at the Idz-30 or the F119 timetables for comparison

F-119 have relatively short time-frame of development, started along with ATF program in 80s and it had been flying within in 10 years on with YF-23/YF-22 in late 80s, as far as i remember first flight of YF-23 with F-119 was in mid 90

 

[LKJ86]

Both countries are using interim engines for their 5th gen jets because one have no money to research, and you have lack of experience to design and build engines from scratch

And then?
China should be a white rat of Russia, just like India???

 

[White and Green with M/S]

And then?
China should be a white rat of Russia, just like India???

No i m not saying that you're assuming that by yourself

 

[LKJ86]

No i m not saying that you're assuming that by yourself

So, what did you mean?

 

[White and Green with M/S]

View attachment 690189
So, what did you mean?

You have the money but lack experience but Russia have the experience your first engine from scratch will be ws-15 not WS-10 which is based upon CMF-56

 

[LKJ86]

You have the money but lack experience but Russia have the experience your first engine from scratch will be ws-15 not WS-10 which is based upon CMF-56

Su-57 also made maiden flight earlier than J-20, and then?

 

[Figaro]

F-119 have relatively short time-frame of development, started along with ATF program in 80s and it had been flying within in 10 years on with YF-23/YF-22 in late 80s, as far as i remember first flight of YF-23 with F-119 was in mid 90

The WS-15 has already conducted flight testing aboard a modified J-11 (not the J-20). This was confirmed at the beginning of last year IIRC. Considering the WS-15 only completed high/altitude core testing in 2009/2010, the time table is not slow at all. Also, you have to take into account the numerous revisions the Chinese have taken to modify the WS-15 ... the current iteration is much more advanced than the one envisioned in 2006 due to incorporating new gas turbine technologies. This will also produce delays.

You have the money but lack experience but Russia have the experience your first engine from scratch will be ws-15 not WS-10 which is based upon CMF-56

The reason why the WS-10 was built on a CFM-56 core was because the MIC at the time (late 80s) did not have much funding and the limitations of China's military technologies. But a lot has changed since then ... the Chinese thrust to weight ratio 10 core demonstrator was tested successfully at the turn of the century (CJ-2000), which later became the basis for the WS-15. Experience is another thing that is very overrated ... it can be argued the Chinese had little experience compared to the US, Europe, or Russia in practically all areas of military hardware. Yet why have they been able to catch up and exceed in some aspects so quickly? The person playing catch up usually has a much easier and faster time than the person who is already at the lead.