Xinjiang attack masterminded by terrorists trained in Pakistan: China

[Safriz]

hand on my heart i say that i for myself saw pakistan army men in uniform training men from occupied kashmir at one of their army base's firing range...
i can even tell you the place i saw it happening....
there is an army base north of mansehra in the mountains at a small town called shinkiarii...
you can see hills of occupied kashmir across the mountains from there and its a days trek.
pak army men trained insurgents full battle tactics and military precision in using guns...
but they did not teach them terrorism.
these people were taught how to fight against one of the largest army in the world...but werent told to kill innocent civilians.
there is a fine line between nurturing terrorism and helping supressed people to fend for themselves when a large resourceful army is plundering their homes and raping their women...ame was done during afghan war..and pak army did just that...never helped terrorists who kill innocent civilians

 

[muse]

If I am hearing you clearly, you seem to be claiming that the Pakistani Army Establishment thinks it is in their interest, & desired by them as per policy, that FATA/Pakistan becomes a hotbed for international terrorism, the epicenter of world terrorism, affecting all the countries in the world today?

Nothing seems to have changed in the strategic calculations of the Pakistan army - and allowing FATA to be the breeding ground of international Islamist terror, and Pakistan a nursery of Islamist terror, is indeed what that Pakistan army wants.

Otherwise we would have to believe that while insurgents in Balouchistan meet with death, that those international terrorists in the FATA do not because........ Please go ahead and in the blanks

And if indeed, it was the desire of the Pakistan army that Pakistan be free of islamist ideology, we would have to believe that it's own indoctrination of recruits in Islamism is................(an oversight?)

Pakistan army is itself the largest promoter of this ideology in Pakistan, how else does this ideology flourish both in the armed forces and in society? If the international relations of Pakistan are subject to what the Pakistan army wishes to see, we are to believe that the internal policies are not because......again, please feel free to fill in the blanks.

That's why we continue to raise awareness that reform and tameer of Pakistan must begin with the army.f

 

[VCheng]

Nothing seems to have changed in the strategic calculations of the Pakistan army - and allowing FATA to be the breeding ground of international Islamist terror, and Pakistan a nursery of Islamist terror, is indeed what that Pakistan army wants.

..............................

Hold on a minute! I think NOT.

Can you please explain what is to be gained if we assume this to be true?

 

[muse]

there is a fine line between nurturing terrorism and helping supressed people to fend for themselves when a large resourceful army is plundering their homes and raping their women...ame was done during afghan war..and pak army did just that...never helped terrorists who kill innocent civilians

is the Chinese army any smaller??

 

[53fd]

Again, I do not understand how the Army would gain from the fact that it wants the FATA or Pakistan to be an breeding ground for world/international terrorism. Am I missing something here?

The Pakistan Army has conducted numerous operations against all militants in the FATA, but the international terrorists get refuge through local terrorists, without the local terrorists, they cannot survive in the region. The Army has very successfully gone after these local groups, & have killed many international terrorists as well. Pakistan took off many of their troops from the LoC, & put them on the Afghan border. Pakistan also has more troops on its Western border than all of the NATO & US troops combined, & has carried out more extensive & intense operations than them.

 

[muse]

Hold on a minute! I think NOT.

Can you please explain what is to be gained if we assume this to be true?

What allows you to think that the strategic calculation has changed? -- After the US evacuates Afghanistan, there will be a significantly different game, however, what will not change for the Pakistan army, is the vehicle of international Islamism -- Will the Pakistan army make the talib disappear? in fact quite the opposite -- and however it might deal with the "Stans", it will continue to have a vehicle, a dog in the fight, so to speak, with these islamist groups it allows in NWA --

 

[Safriz]

is the Chinese army any smaller??

pakistan has no claim on xinxiang province or any part of china unlike kashmir.....
so there is the difference.
and unlike india china never interferes in pakistans intern affairs and pakistan respects that by keeping away from chinese internal affairs.

 

[53fd]

What allows you to think that the strategic calculation has changed? -- After the US evacuates Afghanistan, there will be a significantly different game, however, what will not change for the Pakistan army, is the vehicle of international Islamism -- Will the Pakistan army make the talib disappear? in fact quite the opposite -- and however it might deal with the "Stans", it will continue to have a vehicle, a dog in the fight, so to speak, with these islamist groups it allows in NWA --

I think it's pretty clear for everyone to see that Pakistan has burned its bridges with the Islamists, looking at the recent events that have transpired in the AfPak region.

 

[muse]

The Pakistan Army has conducted numerous operations against all militants in the FATA, but the international terrorists get refuge through local terrorists, without the local terrorists, they cannot survive in the region. The Army has very successfully gone after these local groups, & have killed many international terrorists as well.

Incorrect, it has carried out operations against some TTP war lords, while it has cut deals with others - It allows and has always allowed the haqqani to operate, similarly the Quetta Shura -- and which operation can you cite against the AQ or the IMU - and I'm not even going to mention that NWA has been a complaint for many.

 

[muse]

I think it's pretty clear for everyone to see that Pakistan has burned its bridges with the Islamists, looking at the recent events that have transpired in the AfPak region.

Help refresh my memory - what recent events? Against IMU? Chechans? AQ? Haqqani??

See, Billu, action against these groups, without taking action against the ideology that these people promote?? Without deligitimizing the ideology in society ?? Without action against the infrastructure, the madaress, the political organizations?

No, we must be serious about what we are saying, we owe it to each other -- The internationals Islamist headquarters and terrorist nursery are characterizations that stick only because the infrastructure of promoting and perpetuating Islamist terrorism, all warm and cozy - under zero threat - look, man, our society, "Lawyers" garlanded the assassin of a governor who "blasphemed" acting to protect a Pakistani woman who was not a Islamist.

 

[53fd]

Incorrect, it has carried out operations against some TTP war lords, while it has cut deals with others - It allows and has always allowed the haqqani to operate, similarly the Quetta Shura -- and which operation can you cite against the AQ or the IMU - and I'm not even going to mention that NWA has been a complaint for many.

As I said, the local terrorists, the TTP & the Afghan Taliban have provided shelter to international terrorists. Pakistan has attacked the Waziri group (Mullah Nazir + Hafiz Gul Bahadur) in South Waziristan, as well as the terrorists in Kurram that had escaped North Waziristan. Haqqanis are being taken care of by the drone strikes from the US. The IMU is based in North Afghanistan (in Kunduz, Balkh, Takhar), not Pakistan, they only have a few fighters in Pakistan, & these fighters need the protection of local terrorist groups. Pakistan has conducted operations against these local groups time & time again.

 

[VCheng]

What allows you to think that the strategic calculation has changed? -- After the US evacuates Afghanistan, there will be a significantly different game, however, what will not change for the Pakistan army, is the vehicle of international Islamism -- Will the Pakistan army make the talib disappear? in fact quite the opposite -- and however it might deal with the "Stans", it will continue to have a vehicle, a dog in the fight, so to speak, with these islamist groups it allows in NWA --

That is not going to happen for the foreseeable future, and hence the rest of the premise cannot follow.

 

[53fd]

Help refresh my memory - what recent events? Against IMU? Chechans? AQ? Haqqani??

See, Billu, action against these groups, without taking action against the ideology that these people promote?? Without deligitimizing the ideology in society ?? Without action against the infrastructure, the madaress, the political organizations?

No, we must be serious about what we are saying, we owe it to each other -- The internationals Islamist headquarters and terrorist nursery are characterizations that stick only because the infrastructure of promoting and perpetuating Islamist terrorism, all warm and cozy - under zero threat - look, man, our society, "Lawyers" garlanded the assassin of a governor who "blasphemed" acting to protect a Pakistani woman who was not a Islamist.

I don't understand how you can think the Pakistan Army holds any kind of sway over these Islamist groups any more, looking at the fact how Afghan terrorists have infiltrated into Pakistan & attacked tribal people, as well as the establishment. Pakistan does not have a sway over anyone but possibly Mullah Umar & the Haqqani network, & most groups in the Afghanistan region today are not even under the influence of Mullah Umar, but have their own agendas. The only common point they have is that they see their current, respective governments in Afghanistan & Pakistan as illegitimate.

 

[Roybot]

hand on my heart i say that i for myself saw pakistan army men in uniform training men from occupied kashmir at one of their army base's firing range...
i can even tell you the place i saw it happening....
there is an army base north of mansehra in the mountains at a small town called shinkiarii...
you can see hills of occupied kashmir across the mountains from there and its a days trek.
pak army men trained insurgents full battle tactics and military precision in using guns...
but they did not teach them terrorism.
these people were taught how to fight against one of the largest army in the world...but werent told to kill innocent civilians.
there is a fine line between nurturing terrorism and helping supressed people to fend for themselves when a large resourceful army is plundering their homes and raping their women...ame was done during afghan war..and pak army did just that...never helped terrorists who kill innocent civilians

You know the same "argument" can be applied to every other proxy backed separatist movements in the world. Be it Balochistan, Kashmir or Xinjiang?

 

[khurasaan1]

I don't understand how it is linked to Pakistan or Pakistan is behind these attacks. It's not like we told these people " welcome, please come into our country, launch attacks from here and earn us a bad name". These people are illegally entering and staying in Pakistan without the consent or support of GoP. Pakistan would be behind these attacks if a link could be established between the GoP or any of its institutions and the miscreants. If anything, the state of Pakistan is constantly battling the extremists regardless of their nationality or where they come from. A little gratitude and consideration instead of thankless bitching would do us and the world a ton of good.

Bro! these terrorists are state sponsored by US , MI6, Mosaad and RAW ..thats why they got so many resources to carry out such kinda attacks within China....The CIA is also trying to equip such terrorists with real/dirty Nukes so that they can carry out their missions aggressively.....Mr. Raymond Davis the CIA station chief was caught red handed carrying out such kinda business here in Pakistan and running a secret terrorist cell........