WOW:Syria militants attack Hezbollah positions in Lebanon: FSA

[Hack-Hook]

Then why the all 12 Emams are father to son appointed from same clan, no one else possess that right? You are contradicting your own belief.


There were more bani ummayad who were martyred in battke of badar, Abi Lahab his sons, Talib and Akil elder brother of Ali (even Talib was killed by Muslims in the same battle), Atika’s husband and sons most of the bani Ahshim fought against prophet barring Hamza, jafar and Ali. Prophet married with bani Ummayd , Prophet married his daughters to bani Ummayad , Ali gave his sister to bani ummayad and Sakineh daughter of Hussein married with Zaid the grandson of Uthman the Caliph. So this is farce created in later centuries, in early history of Islam there was nothing like one clan was against another amongst the Kurasih.

well , you believe the 12th Imams are appointed but we believe their name and who are they were given to the holy propet through Gabriel .

and its clear that there was more Ommayed who were killed at the war after all Muslims at the war came to attack nonbeliever trade caravan which was made with migrants belonging that were looted in mecca and the Ommayed and their supporters were coming to defend that Caravan . by the way we don't consider Ommayed killed in that battle as Martyrs

and it's what happened to the persons you consider martyred

Later the Prophet ordered that the dead bodies of Quraysh might be collected and thrown in a well. When the body of 'Utbah was being brought to the well the eyes of his son (Abu Huzayfah) fell on it and he turned pale. The Prophet observed this and said: "Has any doubt crossed your mind?" He replied: "No but I imagined that my father possessed wisdom learning and patience and thought that these qualities might guide him to Islam. However I have now realized that whatever I had been thinking was wrong".

Then the Prophet went by the side of the well. He uttered the names of everyone of the chiefs of unbelievers and said: "O 'Utbah! O Shaybah! O Umayah! O Abu Jahl! Did you find what your god had promised you to be correct? I have found that which my Allah had promised to be correct and firm".

The companions of the Prophet said: "Are you speaking to the dead bodies?" He replied: "They are hearing my words but are not able to give any reply".

 

[explorer9]

well , you believe the 12th Imams are appointed but we believe their name and who are they were given to the holy propet through Gabriel .

and its clear that there was more Ommayed who were killed at the war after all Muslims at the war came to attack nonbeliever trade caravan which was made with migrants belonging that were looted in mecca and the Ommayed and their supporters were coming to defend that Caravan . by the way we don't consider Ommayed killed in that battle as Martyrs

and it's what happened to the persons you consider martyred

You would never be able to reply precise questions and events that has been addressed, Do not put excerpt without source "

 

[Alshawi1234]

Who is the authority on religious issues? you are late grand Ayatollah Syead Hussain Mohamed Fadlallah. May i quote Al-Kafi*
(read below), *to validate Umee Kulthum's marriage with Umar solemnized by Ali himself. Neither Mohammad bin Abibakr is despised by sidning with Ali nor Akil ibn abi Talib is despised by siding with Muawiyah. Even Talib the oldest brother of Ali who was killed by Muslims while fighting along side Kuffars is not despised.


-Imam Jafar said:*

"When Umar died, Ali came over to Umme-Kulthum, held her by the hand and took her home"

Al Fur'u min al-Kafi @ Kitab-ut-Talaq, Chapter Al-Mutwaffi anha Zaujuha, Vol 6, P.115-116

-Imam Baqer said :

"Ali's daughter Umme-Kulthum and her son Zaid bin Umar bin al-Khattab, died at the same time. No one knew who died first. Therefore none of them was made the inheritor of the other, and their funeral prayers were offerred simultaneously"

Tadhib-ul-Ahkam @ Kitab-ul-Mirath, Chapter Mirath-ul-Furqi wa Mehdum, Vol 9, P.262

Koran only despise , Pharao, his army chief, Abraha , Abu lahab with his wife and abu jahal.

Umar was married to umm kalthoum, but there is nothing that suggests she was the daughter of imam Ali for the following reasons

-The alleged marriage happened when she still a child.
- Sunni sources state that she bore Zayd and Ruqayah (there is no possible way she can bore two children if we out the age and dates together)
-Sunni source state that she married Auwn and mohammed the sons of jaafar ibn abi talib (after each of them died of course) but the problem is that jaafar was already married to Zainab bint Ali, her older sister, which would make the marriage forbidden.
- when she died, Abdullah bin Umar, Hassan and Hussain each prayed on her body, another big contradiction, Um kalthoum bint Ali witnessed the Battle of Karbala and was alive after Imam Hassan and Hussain died, so how could she be already dead?
Anyways this is greatly disputed but the most authentic Hadiths in Shia books refute it. And IF it were true it does not justify all the other events that took place.I would post a link but it is in Arabic.*
*As for Imam Ali, He housed a few of of the "caliphs" wives, the most important the mother of Mohammed the son of Abu bakr, mohammed ibn Abu bakr sided with Imam Ali in the battles of the Camel and siffin, he is blamed by sunnis scholars for taking part in killing uthman (which he didn't) and is disposed by Sunnis. *Mohammed ibn Abu bakr was later killed by muawyahs army and burnt.*
----
As for the cursed tree

“… And We did not make the vision which We showed you but a trial for men and the cursed tree in Quran as well?”

(Surah Bani Israel (17): 60)

Tabari, explaining the revelation of this verse, has documented a dream that the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) had wherein the children of Hakam b. Abi Aas (from the family of Umayya) were jumping up and down upon his pulpit like monkeys. This dream upset the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) so much that he never laughed again.

Tafsir-e-Tabari, vol 15, pg 177; Al-Durr al-Mansur, vol 4, pg 191

Aisha told Marwaan b. Hakam that Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) told her:

‘The ‘cursed tree’ in the Quran implies you (i.e. Marwan b. Hakam and his family).’

Al-Durr al-Mansur, vol 4, pg 191

Then why the all 12 Emams are father to son appointed from same clan, no one else possess that right? You are contradicting your own belief..

The twelve imams are mentioned in the Hadith and the Quran mentions that Imams are appointed and not chosen. The hadiths clearly state the Imamah belonged to Imam Ali his Descendants. The Hadith of the twelve leaders, all of them from qurysh is widely known and acknowledged by all Muslims. So who are those twelve Imams?

He who dies without recognizing the Imam of his time dies the death of Jahiliyah
He who dies without baya`a (allegiance) dies the death of Jahilyah
Some references: Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal, Volume 4 page 94 Hadith 16271;
Kanz ul Ummal, Volume 1 page 103 hadith 463 & 464;
Musnad Abu Daud al-Tyalsi, Hadith 2013;

The prophet announced Imam Ali as his caliph in his first speech.


Then he spoke to them, saying, "Banu Abd al-Muttalib, I don't know of any young man among Arabs who has brought for his people something better than what I have brought to you. I bring the best of this world and the world after, since God has commanded me to summon you to him. Which of you will aid me in this matter, so that he will be my brother, my executor (Wasi), my successor (Caliph) among you?" They all held back, and even though I was the youngest, I said "I will be your helper, O' prophet of God." He put his hand on the back of my neck and said "This is my brother, my executor (Wasi), my successor (Caliph) among you, so listen to him and obey him." They rose up laughing and saying to Abu Talib, "He has commanded you to obey your son and to obey him!
Sunni References:
(1) History of al-Tabari, English version, v6, pp 88-91

The leadership was obouvsly stripped and taken by force, read about the tradegy of Thursday, the saqifa, the attack on Imam Ali house. Why Imam Ali did not give "allegiance" to Abu bakr only after 6 months, why Fatima was angry at the "caliphs" and she ordered that they don't pray on her body or join in her burial when she died...

“ Umar Ibn al-Khattab came to the house of Ali. Talhah and Zubayr and some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out: "By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or I will set the house on fire." al-Zubair came out with his sword drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand so they jumped over him and seized him." ”
—al-Tabari,


It's too much too write and I guess we're just wasting Time here, it's better to do this on a religious forum and not military forum so this will be my last reply.

Btw nothing is absolute, when we say bani ummay we don't mean every single on of them.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

@Alshawi1234

First of all, you are not in the right place nor talking to the right people, those details are only discussed by Religious schoolars, and there are many televised debates can be found on YT between Shia and Sunnah scholars and your scholars won non of them, just non. And I doubt you are better than your scholars, however, if you are good at this plz call them or arrange an interview with them as accommodation and flight tickets are for free. I was refuting whoever said we respect or follow Yazid. And that's it. Let's stop this debate here.

 

[explorer9]

Umar was married to umm kalthoum, but there is nothing that suggests she was the daughter of imam Ali for the following reasons

-The alleged marriage happened when she still a child.
- Sunni sources state that she bore Zayd and Ruqayah (there is no possible way she can bore two children if we out the age and dates together)
-Sunni source state that she married Auwn and mohammed the sons of jaafar ibn abi talib (after each of them died of course) but the problem is that jaafar was already married to Zainab bint Ali, her older sister, which would make the marriage forbidden.
- when she died, Abdullah bin Umar, Hassan and Hussain each prayed on her body, another big contradiction, Um kalthoum bint Ali witnessed the Battle of Karbala and was alive after Imam Hassan and Hussain died, so how could she be already dead?
Anyways this is greatly disputed but the most authentic Hadiths in Shia books refute it. And IF it were true it does not justify all the other events that took place.I would post a link but it is in Arabic.*
*As for Imam Ali, He housed a few of of the "caliphs" wives, the most important the mother of Mohammed the son of Abu bakr, mohammed ibn Abu bakr sided with Imam Ali in the battles of the Camel and siffin, he is blamed by sunnis scholars for taking part in killing uthman (which he didn't) and is disposed by Sunnis. *Mohammed ibn Abu bakr was later killed by muawyahs army and burnt.*
----
As for the cursed tree

“… And We did not make the vision which We showed you but a trial for men and the cursed tree in Quran as well?”

(Surah Bani Israel (17): 60)

Tabari, explaining the revelation of this verse, has documented a dream that the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) had wherein the children of Hakam b. Abi Aas (from the family of Umayya) were jumping up and down upon his pulpit like monkeys. This dream upset the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) so much that he never laughed again.

Tafsir-e-Tabari, vol 15, pg 177; Al-Durr al-Mansur, vol 4, pg 191

Aisha told Marwaan b. Hakam that Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) told her:

‘The ‘cursed tree’ in the Quran implies you (i.e. Marwan b. Hakam and his family).’

Al-Durr al-Mansur, vol 4, pg 191



The twelve imams are mentioned in the Hadith and the Quran mentions that Imams are appointed and not chosen. The hadiths clearly state the Imamah belonged to Imam Ali his Descendants. The Hadith of the twelve leaders, all of them from qurysh is widely known and acknowledged by all Muslims. So who are those twelve Imams?

He who dies without recognizing the Imam of his time dies the death of Jahiliyah
He who dies without baya`a (allegiance) dies the death of Jahilyah
Some references: Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal, Volume 4 page 94 Hadith 16271;
Kanz ul Ummal, Volume 1 page 103 hadith 463 & 464;
Musnad Abu Daud al-Tyalsi, Hadith 2013;

The prophet announced Imam Ali as his caliph in his first speech.


Then he spoke to them, saying, "Banu Abd al-Muttalib, I don't know of any young man among Arabs who has brought for his people something better than what I have brought to you. I bring the best of this world and the world after, since God has commanded me to summon you to him. Which of you will aid me in this matter, so that he will be my brother, my executor (Wasi), my successor (Caliph) among you?" They all held back, and even though I was the youngest, I said "I will be your helper, O' prophet of God." He put his hand on the back of my neck and said "This is my brother, my executor (Wasi), my successor (Caliph) among you, so listen to him and obey him." They rose up laughing and saying to Abu Talib, "He has commanded you to obey your son and to obey him!
Sunni References:
(1) History of al-Tabari, English version, v6, pp 88-91

The leadership was obouvsly stripped and taken by force, read about the tradegy of Thursday, the saqifa, the attack on Imam Ali house. Why Imam Ali did not give "allegiance" to Abu bakr only after 6 months, why Fatima was angry at the "caliphs" and she ordered that they don't pray on her body or join in her burial when she died...

“ Umar Ibn al-Khattab came to the house of Ali. Talhah and Zubayr and some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out: "By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or I will set the house on fire." al-Zubair came out with his sword drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand so they jumped over him and seized him." ”
—al-Tabari,


It's too much too write and I guess we're just wasting Time here, it's better to do this on a religious forum and not military forum so this will be my last reply.

Btw nothing is absolute, when we say bani ummay we don't mean every single on of them.

So Kulyani & sheikh sadooq is liar and grand Ayatollah Syead Hussein Mohmmad fadlallah’s fatwa is also lie? It is a historical fact that Umar ibn Al- Khattab married with Umme Kulthum bint Ali ibne Abi Talib and no one can deny that.
(If modern day Ithna Ashari Shiets accept this fact with open heart, all the acrimoniousness would wash away in minute)

Ali took Mohmmad bin abi bakr his house because Ali married to Asma bint Umais widow of Abiabakr after his demise (She was previously married Jafar ibn abi Talib who was martyred in the battle of Muthah).
Give me authentic Sunnite source where Mohammad bin Abibakr is despised.

Good and bad people were in both bani Ummayad and bani Hashim that is what I precisely meant.

Where in Koran god appointed the Imam?( tell me the name of even a single Imam in Koran), if the name was there would have been no division in Ithna Ashari, Zaidi & Ismaili Shiet.

Further it is requested to you that kindly do provide excerpt and quotes from Sunnite books when you put Shiet point forward, likewise I always gave the source from Shiet books. Sunnite and Shiet do not legitimize each other’s source of Hadith (in most of the cases).

 

[Serpentine]

Guys, stop this whole religious discussions,it has nothing to do with the thread.
I won't delete your posts since you have spent so much time writing them,but if you go on with this, I have to do it.

 

[Rafi]

What does the military capability of Hizbollah have to do with theology.

 

[explorer9]

Guys, stop this whole religious discussions,it has nothing to do with the thread.
I won't delete your posts since you have spent so much time writing them,but if you go on with this, I have to do it.

Timely entry of moderator!

 

[Alshawi1234]

Majority deny and is disputed because of the massive contradictions. Anyways back to topic,
these towns that Hezbollah is "occupying" don't want the FSA in there territory. So why is the FSA trying move the battle to safe zones?

 

[Mercenary]

What is Iran doing to help Assad's Forces?

 

[Hack-Hook]

What is Iran doing to help Assad's Forces?

literally nothing but giving advices and promoting national unity talks .

 

[explorer9]

Majority deny and is disputed because of the massive contradictions. Anyways back to topic,
these towns that Hezbollah is "occupying" don't want the FSA in there territory. So why is the FSA trying move the battle to safe zones?

Denial of majority does not have any significance because, when scholars of utmost integrity acknowledge the same. Back to the topic, may be because these towns are in geographical periphery of Syria not inside the Lebanon.I think many towns inside Syria do not want Assad and his forces so what should be done there? Fight till the end?.

 

[PakistaniandProud]

Wow, this is hard to believe. This is exactly what the west wants, more problems and violence against one another in the Middle East.