Featured Would having Rafale on Feb 27, 2019 made any difference?

[kongn]

Except that we didnt had those when it was needed. IAF rose from hibernation after feb 19. What were they doing before that. Why hurry now. As a professional airforce couldnt they anticipate that BVR,AESA are the future.Even today we dont have integrated radio network, refulers, sizable no of awacs etc.And this is happening again with the army after chinese intrusion . Yes rafale being an excellent fighter which will give us a decisive edge against pakistan, but same cant be said about china. And when you hear the statementsof IAF chiefs about rafale being gamechanger , it looks like they dont take J20 seriously, the same thinking which led to feb 19 fiasco. Had IAF being proactive and upgraded su 30 to super sukhoi standards we wouldn't have hyped rafale this much. Think what a beast su 30mki would be with aesa, new engines,new electronic suites. But even IAF is now drooling over rafale, as if it would solve all our structural deficiencies .

IAF focused last decade mostly on helos and airlift capability,as fighter situation dwindled due to UPA and its own lethargy regarding tejas .
We don't take j20 seriously because its a so called stealth fighter with open engines and canards,and we easily detected it on su-30mki radar over tibet.So what stealth aircraft is this?
MKI upgrade will start when uttam AESA upscaled version becomes available which is 2021 or 2022.Every other component of the upgrade is ready except he AESA radar.It will be fully desi upgrade .

 

[Tehmasib]

Hi every one, i do not want to use word "if" but, as we all knows on 27 Feb, If india have Rafeal and if Pakistan Jam Communication then what happened, as chai was fantastic.......

 

[Xone]

PAF and IAF have a totally different approach to fight a war, IAF may be in possession of superior planes and weapons package on the individual level. but watching wholistically IAF is a far from a true amalgamation of right planes and weaponry.
On the other hand, PAF may have few and less superior planes, but their combination is very well planned and thought out. Each and every plane has its well-defined role to perform,
On feb27th PAF used its resources effectively while IAF miserably failed to confront the PAF offense.
Now, Rafale may appear to be a very potent aircraft to the common man, but to PAF, it still unable to make any challenge worth fearing.
why a potent plane like rafale fails to create a fearful impress on its opponent? PAF does not believe in one to one fight. It fights with all its assets on its disposal and these make PAF, a deadly combination even Rafale can not confront. Pakistan can hit rafale even with its legacy fighter by utilizing its force multiplier assets. so what is need to worry? when you already know the answer to the question.
A better strategy, superior training, effective utilization of resources, the smart quest for a solution helps you to overcome a mammoth arrogant enemy.

 

[UKBengali]

IAF focused last decade mostly on helos and airlift capability,as fighter situation dwindled due to UPA and its own lethargy regarding tejas .
We don't take j20 seriously because its a so called stealth fighter with open engines and canards,and we easily detected it on su-30mki radar over tibet.So what stealth aircraft is this?
MKI upgrade will start when uttam AESA upscaled version becomes available which is 2021 or 2022.Every other component of the upgrade is ready except he AESA radar.It will be fully desi upgrade .

Do you even have basic understanding of physics?

Those canards are a radar reflector which will only be an issue when they move a lot in WVR dogfights. From BVR they will barely move at all and so the RCS of the J-20 will barely change.
Those exposed engines are only from the back and not from head on.

Lastly, how does the IAF even know it was a J-20 rather than a J-16 on the SU-30MKI radar? A radar blip does not show a picture of the object it has detected.

Please use logic and do not take the claims of IAF at face value.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

I don't think it would have made any difference... Paf came with full force (around 30 jets) over a small contested area and we're faced by the few patrolling jets of iaf... Later MiG-21 and mki were scrambled to face it... Even then the ratio was like 8:1
So having Rafael based in Ambala would have taken much longer to reach the contested zone as the whole thing ended in few minutes...

Having said so... This was the case for a small contested zone... If we see the enlarge picture of this contest through whole LOC or IB then our mki would be a force to reckon with even without Rafaels

We warned you a day before and infiltrated at broad daylight during noon the next day, where was your Air Force?

 

[TaimiKhan]

First of all it should be cleared that PAF jets did not violate the line of control nor the border. They used stand off weapons, launched and guided from within our own air space.

And 2ndly even if rafales were fully operational, PAF would still have struck as we had enough of indian BS, especially after they had launched the weapons at us. Had it been like the post-uri fictional strike, we would have let go, but this time it was business.

How the air war would have played after that, that is the question and may be damage would have been on both sides if rafale had been used properly. But when i personally see how Mirages, Bisons and Su30s all state of the art and champions in their own categories were used, i doubt rafales would have made a different outcome.

I am seeing all this hype around Rafale on our national and regional TV news channels today...I am not an expert in military affairs.
I would like to know from experts here(pak or indian) that would Rafales have made a difference on feb 27 last year when pak jets entered india?would pak have dared to enter indian air space had we had rafales back then?
Would Rafales have succeeded in downing pakistani jets?Are we over exaggerating the importance of Rafales?are the jets which pak has now are good enough to fight rafales?
Please keep your answers confined to technicalities only..no trolling or india bashing plz

 

[CriticalThinker02]

Dude, just far too much wishful thinking in that post.

JF-17 Block 3 will bring both AESA radar and PL-15 which will beat anything that India has but Rafale.

Do you know the best thing about JF-17 Block 3? It is less than half the price of Rafale and so the PAF could end up with 100, while India struggles with barely much more than the 36 it has already ordered.

If PAF needs it, they can always ask China for J-35s when available that will turn the IAF into a duck hunt for the PAF.

I really advise more research and less wet dreams going forward.

The present 100 odd JF17 Block 1 and 2 will be converted to Block 3 and a 100 more Block 3 will be made over the years so the adversary will be facing 200+ JF 17 block 3 with AESA and PL-15s in the future.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

Except that we didnt had those when it was needed. IAF rose from hibernation after feb 19. What were they doing before that. Why hurry now. As a professional airforce couldnt they anticipate that BVR,AESA are the future.Even today we dont have integrated radio network, refulers, sizable no of awacs etc.And this is happening again with the army after chinese intrusion . Yes rafale being an excellent fighter which will give us a decisive edge against pakistan, but same cant be said about china. And when you hear the statementsof IAF chiefs about rafale being gamechanger , it looks like they dont take J20 seriously, the same thinking which led to feb 19 fiasco. Had IAF being proactive and upgraded su 30 to super sukhoi standards we wouldn't have hyped rafale this much. Think what a beast su 30mki would be with aesa, new engines,new electronic suites. But even IAF is now drooling over rafale, as if it would solve all our structural deficiencies .

Decisive edge lol your kind spoke the same language before 27 Feb with the MKI

 

[aman_rai]

We warned you a day before and infiltrated at broad daylight during noon the next day, where was your Air Force?

Our mig got shot on your side... Which clearly means that we had deterrent and chased your jets away with whatever we had in air at that particular time....
Question here is.... Where was paf on 26th...???
Our jets didn't had anyone challenging them....

 

[aman_rai]

brother we should have known enemy will come with full force , but sanghis used our airforce for propaganda in return we came with bloody nose with red face , our pilot was captured . that was the biggest shame .

Question here should be... Why was abhinandan sent in MiG-21??? It should have been replaced... If the Rafael deal was completed in 2012 we might had a few squadrons by now... And yes our pilot was shot down but not before shooting one of their finest

 

[PanzerKiel]

Our mig got shot on your side... Which clearly means that we had deterrent and chased your jets away with whatever we had in air at that particular time....
Question here is.... Where was paf on 26th...???
Our jets didn't had anyone challenging them....

I'll just narrate one example.....do you...or anyone of us...stand by our house's main gate all night to make sure no one fiddles with it?

In order to have a CAP of two jets over a Vital Area or Vital Point for 24 hrs, a whole squadron is required.

Hope that answers your query.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

Our mig got shot on your side... Which clearly means that we had deterrent and chased your jets away with whatever we had in air at that particular time....
Question here is.... Where was paf on 26th...???
Our jets didn't had anyone challenging them....

En-route to intercept you, too bad you dropped your bombs early and retreated in haste, of-course we are not going to make the same tactical blunder as your pilot did by crossing the border un-prepared knowing full well the enemy will be waiting with an ambush.

 

[aman_rai]

I'll just narrate one example.....do you...or anyone of us...stand by our house's main gate all night to make sure no one fiddles with it?

In order to have a CAP of two jets over a Vital Area or Vital Point for 24 hrs, a whole squadron is required.

Hope that answers your query.

I totally agree with your point.... This justifies the presence of 2-3 iaf jets on cap on 27th.... It's just that paf played smart and fired aim120 at its dmax to have mki go in defencive mode... And we didn't had any missiles of that range... Hopefully this issue has been taken care of

 

[Bilal.]

Our mig got shot on your side... Which clearly means that we had deterrent and chased your jets away with whatever we had in air at that particular time....
Question here is.... Where was paf on 26th...???
Our jets didn't had anyone challenging them....

Deterrence in most crude definition means a capability of “you do it, you die”. If the opponent is stupid to test it and if the result is demonstrated as claimed then the deterrent stands.

This was demonstrated by PAF comprehensively and also what IAF failed to demonstrate, utterly.

 

[PanzerKiel]

I totally agree with your point.... This justifies the presence of 2-3 iaf jets on cap on 27th.... It's just that paf played smart and fired aim120 at its dmax to have mki go in defencive mode... And we didn't had any missiles of that range... Hopefully this issue has been taken care of

Exactly, and just to add....if you take the exact battle area as the reference point, count all the IAF fields near its vicinity, and compare it with the PAF fields in the same area.....that makes the IAF response even more baffling.