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Would America Risk a Nuclear War with China over Taiwan?

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The answer is "yes." It will be total and nuclear war.

China should rapidly build up 10,000 warheads from fissile material and launch a surprise first strike with 200+ JL-2 and 400+ DF-41 / 31 at industrial and population centers of USA. Wipe out the whole political leadership. Then take Taiwan.


I especially LOL'd at the very end of your comment when you said "Then take Taiwan"

As you seem to be under the delusion that there will actually be a China left after massive nuclear retaliation.from the US in response to your first strike. Or, did you forget about that little added detail.

Lets stop with the video games and come back to reality shall we HongWu or SinoChallenger?
 
A standard and level-headed assumption is like what you said and I have similar opinion too BUT Taiwan is growing more radical you cant rule out the craziness when you have Japan and USA as the provocateurs

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Taiwan Liuligongfang glass sculpture
Majority of Taiwan population not foolishly support a war just to declare independent, this a calculated risk without any gain not to stay with the status quote by remain a de facto independent from China government. Taiwan currently a top tier economy in Asia, no external security threat from other nation except China determine to stop Taiwan self declare independent. Taiwan not under US control with US military colonize the island, by declare independent Taiwan sign of their sovereignty to the U.S. under the US military protectorate, only the idiot will commit to such a blunder by self declare independent to start a war with China.
 
1. The US has no chance to defeat China in its own home turf.

2. There is zero percent of chance that the US will risk a nuclear war over Taiwan.

What home turf? The Pacific Ocean is the U.S. Navy's home turf.
 
This is not because I'm posting anti China thought. But, think about this, risking a war against Taiwan and Japan may give China a huge advantage, as it is near Chinese's central power. You can bring everything you got to the war. But it also has a greater risk than the American. Because it near China, it also risk your industrial capability. For Japan, yes. If they involve in China - Taiwan war, their economy, and industrial capability will be destroyed. But also Taiwan and China. The only winner in here is the American. As it is hard for China to destroy their industrial zone with current capability you have, unless you go nuclear. But even if it use nuclear, It still hard as hell to do that, as you face a fortress of air defense to your east.

Think about this, before you can reach the American mainland, you have go through Japan first. It will bleed you to dry. And after you have flattened Japan and make Nihonjin extinct, you still have to face the America at their full force, as their industrial capability is still intact. The problem is, you still don't have an adequate blue water navy capability to send your power to their soil. The problem is, at this time, your naval industries have been destroyed. So how can you replace your naval capability after you flattened all the American proxy around you? To rebuild them again? Not enough time. The American can send their fleet to attack / harass you again and again; as their naval industries still intact.

The only chance here is if you can get Russian to involve in your war. Not only because of their military / nuclear power. But also of their demography. As the Russia is basically closer to the American Soil than China. With Russia at your side in the war, you can throw your nuclear through the arctic, or you can use their eastern beach to invade the American Soil via Alaska, bypassing their fortress in the pacific, and use your massive armies to fight a land battle, which will dry the American to dry too. That's, if Russia is crazy enough to join your war, as you never want to join their war.

That's what I think about this. So my fellow China friends here. If the war is ever happen, what will China do? What's your strategy?
 
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"In today's nuclear era" "war between the major powers" isn't needed to produce "doomsday" in China; a nuclear-armed North Korea commanded by jealous madmen suffices.
You are talking about home turf battle. You expect Chinese is dumb not to lob nuke at US when they start bombing around China or marines landed on China mainland?

Without bombing the airbase on mainland China or taking out facilities in inner China. How can you conduct a modern warfare against a major power?
 
No, you are wrong, from a strategic stand point, PLA cannot possible invade Taiwan over the Taiwanese mainland after the complete withdrawal of ROC, simply because China does not have an effective Navy back in the 50s, in fact, If I remember correctly, the Navy branch of People Liberation army does not exist until September 1950.

And Without a Navy, China cannot pursuit Taiwan over the strait, the best PLA can do after 49 is to recover the closest island from ROC, which also ended with the defeat of Guningtou with Battle of Quemoy.

Problem with attacking ROC today, even without US intervention, which is extremely low probability, as I said, there are no way the American will pass on this proxy war for them, it's a win-win for America if Taiwan win or lose. Taiwan would enjoy a tactical advantage of being to defend an Island nation. Convention wisdom suggest that the advantage of a near peer enemy engaging in an well defend Island, the attacker have to be out number the defender by 10 to 1. (Tradition assault carry the ratio of 3:1, while the traditional Assault in a forward defended position is 5;1).

The question of China being patient is absurd, you are, if invading Taiwan, an attacker, and you need to plan an invasion ahead of the actual invasion, and it will not be just lobbing some missile over the strait and hope the ROC surrender. And the situation WILL change if and when the direction of defending the ROC change, and when it happen, China have to scrap all the plan and drawn up another plan.

You are assuming you can build a larger Navy by day, but the actual invasion is not about the PLAN, they are just tool to bring the Army across, what happen after the Navy is the main show, and no matter how advance an Army were, Navy and Air support will only get you this far, and in ground warfare, everything is fair game

But isn't the ground force is their forte? After they land into the Taiwan, yes, everything is fair game. But I don't think that the PLA will mind with the sacrifice that they will suffer in the war. Because when that happen, PRC and PLA must have a great deal of resolve to do it.
 
Would America Risk a Nuclear War with China over Taiwan? | The National Interest Blog


Actually...They have gave it a lot of thought.


Or that they see enough parallels between then and now that they felt safe enough to make that assumption. One of those parallels is how Germany, under Hitler, felt about the injustices of the past and how China today feels about that 'century of humiliation'.


They did not have to assume. China made it clear enough that Chinese hegemony is Asia is the final goal.

===
The problem is perception -- that China does not have enough of a 'positive' image as a power that must be 'reckoned with'. Yes, China's military is formidable and to reckon with China is to face China politically, economically, and militarily. But perception of those factors is independent of of the mechanics of how to face them, and currently and at least for the next decade, that perception is and will be negative.

It is not as easy to simply invade Taiwan after aerial bombardment as the Chinese section on this forum so naively posited. Back in WW II, merely 30 km of water separate England from continental Europe at the Strait of Dover. Germany had overwhelming control of the English Channel, from the entire coast of France all the way north to Belgium, and yet, never mind the arrogance of Hitler himself, no one sane on Hitler's staff felt that Germany could physically invade England without suffering casualties in terms of manpower and resources that it would negatively affect the war's effort elsewhere.

One hundred and sixty kilometers of water is a long way to go from mainland China to Taiwan. If being generous and say 20 kts or 40 k/hr, that would mean PLAN amphibious landing ships are vulnerable for at least 3 hrs on that journey, and 3hrs is generous considering it is unlikely that the route will be direct from two closest points between mainland China and Taiwan. So realistically and still being generous -- 4 hrs of vulnerability.

As expected, air power will be the dominant player in every aspect of the invasion. China could take dominant airspace control of Taiwan the way the Nazi Luftwaffe did with England's airspace, but China do not have the numerical advantage over Taiwan the way Germany had over England to make that control persistent. Taiwan's air bases are on the coast around the island and Taiwanese air power are vulnerable only to the naive. The RoCAF is proficient enough at using highways for air operations and the PLA do not have enough missiles to take them all out, by numbers and accuracy.

That mean even though the underdog, the RoCAF will be the equivalent of the RAF against the Luftwaffe to the point that it will give pause to the PLA for any amphibious invasion of Taiwan. As for the PLAN amphibious landing ships, the Taiwanese do not have to take them all out, just enough of them to demoralize the remaining force, and if the PLAAF do not have absolute airspace control over Taiwan, whatever remaining amphibious force that survived the journey and make it to Taiwan will be slaughtered on the beaches.

Hugh White may not have a high opinion of those who made assumptions about the US but he made the same mistake in assuming that China is militarily powerful to make escalation unpalatable to the US. So the question is not so much if the US is willing to go mano-a-mano with China all the way to the nuclear threshold and see who blinks first, but whether the PLA leadership have the same wisdom as Hitler's staff did in trying to plan an invasion of England.

The question is also not so much if the PLA can sustain its buildup. Yes, it can and probably will. But equally important is whether Taiwanese defenses will continue to build, not to achieve parity, but to make any PLAN amphibious operations costly enough no matter how much the PLA can build itself up. The PLA talks about area denial with focus on the US. The Taiwanese can also talk about area denial with focus on China.
You compare the power disparity between Nazi Germany/Britain to China/Taiwan? LOLOL Stop writing so much nonsense, man! LOL
 
Did u failed your geography? Taiwan in Pacific Ocean? :lol:

No wonder US education is declining.
Taiwan is in the Pacific Ocean. You are confused between a 'sea' and an 'ocean'.

What's the difference between an ocean and a sea?
Many people use the terms "ocean" and "sea" interchangeably when speaking about the ocean, but there is a difference between the two terms when speaking of geography (the study of the Earth's surface).

Seas are smaller than oceans and are usually located where the land and ocean meet. Typically, seas are partially enclosed by land.
taiwan_pacific.jpg


I guess in China, the maps have Taiwan in the Atlantic Ocean ? :lol:
 
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Taiwan chance of declare independent zero to none, there will be no chance China will fight the US over Taiwan in the near future.

All these B.S over US will fight a nuclear war with China over Taiwan just a complete fiction far away from the reality.

All these freaking what if scenarios when in fact there are fraction of Taiwan government foresee the future of peaceful reunite with China, there are higher chance for a Taiwanese to be the Chinese president than the chance of Taiwan decide a war for independent.
 
But isn't the ground force is their forte? After they land into the Taiwan, yes, everything is fair game. But I don't think that the PLA will mind with the sacrifice that they will suffer in the war. Because when that happen, PRC and PLA must have a great deal of resolve to do it.

The problem is you need to bring the ground force from China to Taiwan. And Individual PLA soldier can't fly to Taiwan and fight a ground war, you need to insert the Unit to Taiwan somehow, and that very much depending on How big of an Army you can transport and how big of an army you can support.

Indeed China have 2 millions strong PLA Ground Force, but that does not translate to all 2 Millions would send to capture Taiwan.

A.) How much your troop ship and transport plane can carry each load.

Don't take PLA as an example, take US Military as an Example, which is currently the greatest Army on the account of Sealift and Airlift Capability. US Military which have 300 Naval ship of all type which can transport about 200,000 Soldier each single trip and USAF current have about 500 Large Troop Carrier (222 C-17, 265 C-130H, 89 C-130J) which can take anywhere between 40,000 to 45,000 Troop.

List of Military Sealift Command ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of active United States military aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, Even if PLA reaches this level of Lifting Ability (Which currently less than 1/10 to the US Sea and Air Lift Command), that mean for the first 5 hours (A round trip from China to Taiwan by sea), the Chinese can only land about 250,000 to Attack and Secure any objective. Which the first wave would face the full force of ROC Military, which currently have 300,000 active and 2 million reserve personnel. And that's if PLA can land and drop all its forces without any challenge, loses will happen to the first wave, either by sinking the Naval Transport by Submarine or Surface Ship or Downing of Air Transport with SAM or Fighters.

Then You can put a little less troop to the shore the second wave, then the third wave, then the fourth wave.

B.) Beside sending in force, you also have to consider the way to supply your force, meaning part of your sea/air lift power will be diverted to support the troops on ground by transporting food, ammunition, replacement parts, daily necessities, instead of carrying troop. You can keep sending in people to shore and when they finish what they brought with them, how do you supposes to carry the fight on when the 300 or so round you brought with expanded in the first hours??

C.) Beside Troop transport and Supply you also need to consider leaving a considerable force behind to Guard/Reserve

It's not about How PLA could and would take, but how can you justifies losing a great deal and quantity of men and equipment to recover a rouge province?? China is technologically advance than Taiwan, but still, they are not far behind, unlike Iraq and US, even so, the Coalition suffer 150,000 Casualty (included 25000 killed) you can imagine if China invade Taiwan, a near peer in an fortified Island position, you are talking about Casualty in Millions and that is BEFORE US Involvement
 
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Sounds like you failed world geography.
Thanks for stating my point. Taiwan is not in Pacific Ocean and your map proved that. Being at edge of pacific and inner of Pacific Ocean makes lot different. The left of Taiwan is Taiwan strait and right is Pacific Ocean so how can Taiwan be inside Pacific Ocean? Taiwan is only 130km from mainland China and you can claim it's not China home turf . May I know what is the US territories next close to Taiwan?

You are doing a self pwned.
 
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