World Exclusive: F-16 Block-52 Flying With J-10C

[VCheng]

The soybean episode happened before the nuclear explosion.

The Pressler Amendment was enacted on "suspicions" of Pakistan's nukes.

Those "suspicions" were factual, and the trigger was an important technological step well before the actual explosion. USA knew every step of the way as it happened and was forced into a response only when things were finalized and became irreversible.

And anyone who thinks Pakistan does not do what serves its own national interests, know that no inducement given by USA was big enough to deter Pakistan when it had set its mind on it. Even after the sanctions were placed, many shenanigans were employed to keep the lines open for both sides for mutual advantages.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Bajwa and peers see things factually when it comes to "dependence" and don't just plan their readiness on naray-baazi. There is no money available for upgrades, there is a dire dependency on Americans for major weapon systems which are at the high end of the technology spectrum. Think F-16s (upgrades, buying AIM-120Ds, more modern PGMs), Artillery Locating Radars, Air Defense Radars, C-130 fleet, countless artillery pieces, AshMs, torpedoes, electronic warfare, communication equipment, helicopters etc. etc. This aside from training in the US/West which benefits our own evolution as a modern military.

Add to this the fact that the military wants to buy more American weapons because of the need to maintain qualitative parity/edge with our adversary.

All of this is because there aren't a ton of options available to Pakistan in lieu of the American technology. Courting the Americans isn't because Bajwa and Co want to get visas post retirement as the other political threads are making it out to be.

Exactly, we don't live in a vacuum and thinking we will not rely on West in the future is unrealistic and even unwise.

 

[VCheng]

Exactly, we don't live in a vacuum and thinking we will not rely on West in the future is unrealistic and even unwise.

It can be done, the only question is whether Pakistan is ready, willing or able to invest in the effort to achieve the level needed to not rely on the West.

 

[Sayfullah]

Do you actually think USA gives a damn for Muslims, and Pakistanis in general?

Neither USA nor CHINA give a damn for Muslims or for Pakistanis in general. In fact neither does Saudi or UAE atm give a damn about Muslims or Pakistanis. Turkey doesn’t either.
Only people who give a damn about Pakistan is Pakistanis.
Only people who give a damn about Muslims is Muslims them selves.
Our problem is we’re always looking to make someone our abba. First usa now China.
Why can’t we truly be independent?
True independence would be using BOTH USA and CHINA for our benefits RATHER then just giving into one camp.
We as Muslims need to put Muslim interests first and we as Pakistanis need to put Pakistan interests first!
What’s wrong with getting F-16 or any other American equipment if it furthers our interests?
Btw fact is USA has benefited us GREATER then any other country. FACT is WE OUR SELVES F***ED UP AND DIDN’T USE USA TO BECOME SOUTH KOREA 2.0 DURING COLD WAR TIMES!
Look at history, there was nothing stopping us from becoming South Korea 2.0 other then our own stupidness.

Just want to repeat this to my fellow Pakistanis and fellow Muslims:
STOP LOOKING TO MAKE OTHERS YOUR ABBA!
Be truly independent. Our camp isn’t China or usa. Our camp is camp Pakistan and camp Islam. If usa helps us better our interests, so be it!

 

[blain2]

And anyone who thinks Pakistan does not do what serves its own national interests, know that no inducement given by USA was big enough to deter Pakistan when it had set its mind on it. Even after the sanctions were placed, many shenanigans were employed to keep the lines open for both sides for mutual advantages.

This is how I have always seen Pakistan and its establishment despite the nonsense overflowing in threads critiquing the establishment.

No amount of bribe, cajoling changed Pakistan's plans to get the nuclear weapons (establishment was at the foundation of this drive) and the same goes for the idiotic claims by a political segment that Pakistan will now give up its nukes. Add to that Pakistan's steadfast Afghanistan and Kashmir strategy through the thick and thin and never allowing itself to kowtow to American diktats. This is why idiotic claims concerning Gen Bajwa and generals selling out don't pass muster.

This gives me the ultimate confidence that things are in good hands with the establishment.

 

[Sayfullah]

Pakistanis are running like lost souls. Don't just blame the US for all the pakistani misdeeds.

100% agree

 

[VCheng]

This gives me the ultimate confidence that things are in good hands with the establishment.

If I may, may I add a small postscript.

The establishment has indeed an indispensable role to play in ensuring unity and achieving national interests. My issues come from the fact that it has ensured that no other institution remains capable of restoring a proper balance of powers and a Constitutional hierarchy.

I say this merely as an observation, and not as a judgement. So Pakistan goes indeed down the global highway, but in first gear and refuses to shift into the higher gears, to use an analogy. Thus we can see we can go, but only so fast.

 

[blain2]

It can be done, the only question is whether Pakistan is ready, willing or able to invest in the effort to achieve the level needed to not rely on the West.

It can be done but not in 5 years or even a decade. Think about our industrial maturity, we cannot even get the political will to invest, let alone the industrial wherewithal.

 

[VCheng]

It can be done but not in 5 years or even a decade. Think about our industrial maturity, we cannot even get the political will to invest, let alone the industrial wherewithal.

i.e. NOT ready, willing or able. As I said above.

(And no, it is not a yahoodi free mason USA saazish. This is ALL on Pakistan itself. ALL of it.)

 

[blain2]

If I may, may I add a small postscript.

The establishment has indeed an indispensable role to play in ensuring unity and achieving national interests. My issues come from the fact that it has ensured that no other institution remains capable to restoring a proper balance of powers and a Constitutional hierarchy.

I say this merely as an observation, and not as a judgement. So Pakistan goes indeed down the global highway, but in first gear and refuses to shift into the higher gears, to use an analogy. Thus we can see we can go, but only so fast.

If it were different times then I would have postulated where the establishment has gone wrong. I think many of us who are greying know that there are quite a few missteps that have blemished the establishment.

However, here the military is doing what it can, what it must given the circumstances. The perpetual "bohran" continues.

 

[VCheng]

If it were different times then I would have postulated where the establishment has gone wrong. I think many of us who are greying know that there are quite a few missteps that have blemished the establishment.

However, here the military is doing what it can, what it must given the circumstances. The perpetual "bohran" continues.

Understood, and agreed.

(And thank you.)

 

[Sayfullah]

Do you even know why we got JF-17s in the first place? Because USA refused to sell us advanced F-16's.

Usa sold us the most advanced equipment when it needed us during Cold War. Usa even sold us equipment more advanced then what they had.
If interest aligns and we know how to work with Americans properly, we can still get some pretty advanced toys.
China is giving us advanced J-10CE, do you think it’s just for ‘friendship’? NO! It’s because our interests align against india atm so China is giving us their most advanced equipment.
Once Chinese interests don’t align with ours, China will do the same usa did to us.
Even rn if we get out of camp mindset and slave mindset, we can still use both of them to our interests. Heck even Taliban is sucking up to US rn tryna use it for its benefits but then there’s us probably the worst foreign policy in the region.
Put your interests first. Whoever can help you the most, use them.

 

[VCheng]

Put your interests first. Whoever can help you the most, use them.

That is exactly how everyone plays this eternal game of international geopolitics. Everyone. Always.

 

[Sayfullah]

That is exactly how everyone plays this eternal game of international geopolitics. Everyone. Always.

Everyone except us. Because for us we always need to be in someone’s camp.
Even Taliban, the ones who fought USA and NATO for 20 + years want good relations with them. But then there’s us.

 

[PakFactor]

Everyone except us. Because for us we always need to be in someone’s camp.
Even Taliban, the ones who fought USA and NATO for 20 + years want good relations with them. But then there’s us.

The problem is not that we don't want relation(s), but that the Pakistani's bend too far for its own good and comes out the loser in the relationship. Our foreign policy has no policy, that's the issue we are writing it as we go a long and you and I know well that doesn't bode well in the long run.