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Won't apologize Turkey: Israel

Why should Israel apologies to Turkey?? What for??

for slaughtering 9 civilians on the Mavi Marmara

apologize to America too, one of the activists was a U.S. citizen



If its like this the let Turkey first acknowledge what they did to the Armenians and doing to the Kurds.

Read the history of the conflict involving Ottoman Turks and the Armenians. That was a period when the empire was in ruins.

Ask yourself what israil would do if bedouins living in israil were to defect and swear loyalties to Syria or Iran for that matter.



as for Kurds, I dont see what the relation is? Turkiye is fighting against Kurdish rebels, not against Kurdish people. The Turks aren't so stupid, nor would they have the luxury of the international community remaining silent if they were to resort to wanton disregard for human life (the way some other countries do)



incidentally, even if what you said is true --- Turkey has purchased some arms from your country therefore that would make you complicit. No?
 
for slaughtering 9 civilians on the Mavi Marmara

apologize to America too, one of the activists was a U.S. citizen





Read the history of the conflict involving Ottoman Turks and the Armenians. That was a period when the empire was in ruins.

Ask yourself what israil would do if bedouins living in israil were to defect and swear loyalties to Syria or Iran for that matter.



as for Kurds, I dont see what the relation is? Turkiye is fighting against Kurdish rebels, not against Kurdish people. The Turks aren't so stupid, nor would they have the luxury of the international community remaining silent if they were to resort to wanton disregard for human life (the way some other countries do)



incidentally, even if what you said is true --- Turkey has purchased some arms from your country therefore that would make you complicit. No?

Genocide is a genocide no matter when that happened..

By the way Turkey and Israel still do a lot of trade with each other apart from weapons....

Lastly concerning Bedouin and also 1 million Israeli Arabs ( not those in West Bank and Gaza) living in Israel proper.... see this link (below)

 
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Why are so many Israelis arrested over illegal arms deals worldwide?


The U.S. authorities' recent arrest of an Israeli for seeking to sell arms to Somalia raises disturbing questions and answers.

At least seven Israeli arms dealers are currently in jail in four countries - the United States, Russia, France and Britain - on charges of illegal arms dealing. Some of them are also suspected of crimes such as forgery, bribery, money laundering and violating UN Security Council embargoes. Such arrests are briefly covered in Israel and then forgotten. But they have a cumulative effect that is very damaging to Israel's image, or what remains of it.

Even though it is doubtful whether those in jail know one another, they have quite a lot in common. All are men in their fifties or sixties. All are well to do (or were in the past ), having made most of their money in international arms dealing or in exporting security services and equipment from Israel. They served in the Israel Defense Forces and reached mid-level ranks (from captain to lieutenant colonel ), and when they were arrested, they denied the charges. Friends who came to their assistance described them, naturally, as "the salt of the earth."

All seven are familiar faces in the corridors of the defense establishment, and at one time received arms dealing permits from the Defense Ministry. All sought to "expedite procedures" in violation of local or international laws, and did so out of pure greed. Due to this covetousness, they also fell into traps and can expect to face many years in jail.

Shimon Naor-Hershkowitz is detained in France and will apparently be extradited to Romania, where he will serve an 11-year jail sentence. He was convicted of forging documents (end-user certificates ) that he used to purchase Romanian arms together with a Romanian partner (who later informed on him to the authorities ). The arms were ostensibly destined for Togo, but in reality were sent to rebels in Angola.

Yair Klein has been held for over a year in a Russian jail, after being arrested there at the behest of Colombia, which wants him on charges of training drug barons' bodyguards. Klein, almost 70, may be the Israeli who comes closest to being a "mercenary" of the ugliest sort. He has previously done jail time in Sierra Leone.

In a British jail sits Gidon Sarig, 58, who was sentenced several months ago to seven years in prison for selling arms and other combat gear to parties in Venezuela, Peru, Senegal, Nigeria, Gabon and, primarily, Sri Lanka.

And in January, Ofer Pazaf, 50, the president of a Kfar Sava company that works as an intermediary and represents security consultants and defense industries, was arrested in Las Vegas. Arrested with him were two other Israelis who have lived in the U.S. for several years: Yohanan Cohen, 47, the CEO of a San Francisco company that manufactures security gear, and Haim Gary, 50, the president of a Miami company that functions as a middleman for defense companies.

All three, along with 20 Americans and people of other nationalities, were arrested in a sting operation by the Federal Bureau of Investigations. One of the agents posed as a representative of the defense minister of an African country and pretended to be looking to purchase arms in return for a bribe - known in the professional lingo as a "commission."

The latest Israeli to find himself behind bars is Hanoch Miller, 53, who was arrested a few days ago in the United States. Together with his partner, retired U.S. Air Force colonel Joseph O'Toole, he is charged with attempts to obtain and sell thousands of AK-47 (Kalashnikov ) rifles to the "government" of Somaliland, a separatist region of northern Somalia. The arms were to have been purchased in the United States and to have been sent on cargo planes to Panama and Bosnia, and from there to Somaliland. But the plan fell through because the third partner, who was supposed to purchase the rifles for Miller and O'Toole, was actually an informer for the customs authorities.

European sources - security and insurance personnel working in Somalia, who are well acquainted with the area - told Haaretz that this story does not make sense, and that the official version put out by the U.S. authorities may conceal a different story. For instance, the indictment stated that the arms were to have been sent to a city called Bandera in northern Somalia. But a look at a map of Somalia reveals that this name is fictitious: No such place exists in Somalia.

Moreover, the shipping documents stated that the cargo was for "the Ministry of Defense of the Somali Republic." But the government of the separatist area known as Somaliland does not refer to itself as the "Somali Republic." Ever since the military coup in 1969 that sent the country down the sewer, its official name has been the Democratic Republic of Somalia.
 
Why are so many Israelis arrested over illegal arms deals worldwide?

Huh..... Every citizen of Israel goes to the army after that what they do world wide either as mercenary or weapons dealers is their own personal business on their free will . This has nothing to do with the state of Israel.

If you want to sell weapons or drugs or whatever that's your business nothing to do with the state of Pakistan
 
do israeli arabs do mandatory conscription in the israily Army ;)
 
Why are so many Israelis arrested over illegal arms deals worldwide?


The U.S. authorities' recent arrest of an Israeli for seeking to sell arms to Somalia raises disturbing questions and answers.



At least seven Israeli arms dealers are currently in jail in four countries - the United States, Russia, France and Britain - on charges of illegal arms dealing. Some of them are also suspected of crimes such as forgery, bribery, money laundering and violating UN Security Council embargoes. Such arrests are briefly covered in Israel and then forgotten. But they have a cumulative effect that is very damaging to Israel's image, or what remains of it.

Even though it is doubtful whether those in jail know one another, they have quite a lot in common. All are men in their fifties or sixties. All are well to do (or were in the past ), having made most of their money in international arms dealing or in exporting security services and equipment from Israel. They served in the Israel Defense Forces and reached mid-level ranks (from captain to lieutenant colonel ), and when they were arrested, they denied the charges. Friends who came to their assistance described them, naturally, as "the salt of the earth."

All seven are familiar faces in the corridors of the defense establishment, and at one time received arms dealing permits from the Defense Ministry. All sought to "expedite procedures" in violation of local or international laws, and did so out of pure greed. Due to this covetousness, they also fell into traps and can expect to face many years in jail.

Shimon Naor-Hershkowitz is detained in France and will apparently be extradited to Romania, where he will serve an 11-year jail sentence. He was convicted of forging documents (end-user certificates ) that he used to purchase Romanian arms together with a Romanian partner (who later informed on him to the authorities ). The arms were ostensibly destined for Togo, but in reality were sent to rebels in Angola.

Yair Klein has been held for over a year in a Russian jail, after being arrested there at the behest of Colombia, which wants him on charges of training drug barons' bodyguards. Klein, almost 70, may be the Israeli who comes closest to being a "mercenary" of the ugliest sort. He has previously done jail time in Sierra Leone.

In a British jail sits Gidon Sarig, 58, who was sentenced several months ago to seven years in prison for selling arms and other combat gear to parties in Venezuela, Peru, Senegal, Nigeria, Gabon and, primarily, Sri Lanka.

And in January, Ofer Pazaf, 50, the president of a Kfar Sava company that works as an intermediary and represents security consultants and defense industries, was arrested in Las Vegas. Arrested with him were two other Israelis who have lived in the U.S. for several years: Yohanan Cohen, 47, the CEO of a San Francisco company that manufactures security gear, and Haim Gary, 50, the president of a Miami company that functions as a middleman for defense companies.

All three, along with 20 Americans and people of other nationalities, were arrested in a sting operation by the Federal Bureau of Investigations. One of the agents posed as a representative of the defense minister of an African country and pretended to be looking to purchase arms in return for a bribe - known in the professional lingo as a "commission."

The latest Israeli to find himself behind bars is Hanoch Miller, 53, who was arrested a few days ago in the United States. Together with his partner, retired U.S. Air Force colonel Joseph O'Toole, he is charged with attempts to obtain and sell thousands of AK-47 (Kalashnikov ) rifles to the "government" of Somaliland, a separatist region of northern Somalia. The arms were to have been purchased in the United States and to have been sent on cargo planes to Panama and Bosnia, and from there to Somaliland. But the plan fell through because the third partner, who was supposed to purchase the rifles for Miller and O'Toole, was actually an informer for the customs authorities.

European sources - security and insurance personnel working in Somalia, who are well acquainted with the area - told Haaretz that this story does not make sense, and that the official version put out by the U.S. authorities may conceal a different story. For instance, the indictment stated that the arms were to have been sent to a city called Bandera in northern Somalia. But a look at a map of Somalia reveals that this name is fictitious: No such place exists in Somalia.

Moreover, the shipping documents stated that the cargo was for "the Ministry of Defense of the Somali Republic." But the government of the separatist area known as Somaliland does not refer to itself as the "Somali Republic." Ever since the military coup in 1969 that sent the country down the sewer, its official name has been the Democratic Republic of Somalia.
 
Why are so many Israelis arrested over illegal arms deals worldwide?


The U.S. authorities' recent arrest of an Israeli for seeking to sell arms to Somalia raises disturbing questions and answers.



At least seven Israeli arms dealers are currently in jail in four countries - the United States, Russia, France and Britain - on charges of illegal arms dealing. Some of them are also suspected of crimes such as forgery, bribery, money laundering and violating UN Security Council embargoes. Such arrests are briefly covered in Israel and then forgotten. But they have a cumulative effect that is very damaging to Israel's image, or what remains of it.

Even though it is doubtful whether those in jail know one another, they have quite a lot in common. All are men in their fifties or sixties. All are well to do (or were in the past ), having made most of their money in international arms dealing or in exporting security services and equipment from Israel. They served in the Israel Defense Forces and reached mid-level ranks (from captain to lieutenant colonel ), and when they were arrested, they denied the charges. Friends who came to their assistance described them, naturally, as "the salt of the earth."

All seven are familiar faces in the corridors of the defense establishment, and at one time received arms dealing permits from the Defense Ministry. All sought to "expedite procedures" in violation of local or international laws, and did so out of pure greed. Due to this covetousness, they also fell into traps and can expect to face many years in jail.

Shimon Naor-Hershkowitz is detained in France and will apparently be extradited to Romania, where he will serve an 11-year jail sentence. He was convicted of forging documents (end-user certificates ) that he used to purchase Romanian arms together with a Romanian partner (who later informed on him to the authorities ). The arms were ostensibly destined for Togo, but in reality were sent to rebels in Angola.

Yair Klein has been held for over a year in a Russian jail, after being arrested there at the behest of Colombia, which wants him on charges of training drug barons' bodyguards. Klein, almost 70, may be the Israeli who comes closest to being a "mercenary" of the ugliest sort. He has previously done jail time in Sierra Leone.

In a British jail sits Gidon Sarig, 58, who was sentenced several months ago to seven years in prison for selling arms and other combat gear to parties in Venezuela, Peru, Senegal, Nigeria, Gabon and, primarily, Sri Lanka.

And in January, Ofer Pazaf, 50, the president of a Kfar Sava company that works as an intermediary and represents security consultants and defense industries, was arrested in Las Vegas. Arrested with him were two other Israelis who have lived in the U.S. for several years: Yohanan Cohen, 47, the CEO of a San Francisco company that manufactures security gear, and Haim Gary, 50, the president of a Miami company that functions as a middleman for defense companies.

All three, along with 20 Americans and people of other nationalities, were arrested in a sting operation by the Federal Bureau of Investigations. One of the agents posed as a representative of the defense minister of an African country and pretended to be looking to purchase arms in return for a bribe - known in the professional lingo as a "commission."

The latest Israeli to find himself behind bars is Hanoch Miller, 53, who was arrested a few days ago in the United States. Together with his partner, retired U.S. Air Force colonel Joseph O'Toole, he is charged with attempts to obtain and sell thousands of AK-47 (Kalashnikov ) rifles to the "government" of Somaliland, a separatist region of northern Somalia. The arms were to have been purchased in the United States and to have been sent on cargo planes to Panama and Bosnia, and from there to Somaliland. But the plan fell through because the third partner, who was supposed to purchase the rifles for Miller and O'Toole, was actually an informer for the customs authorities.

European sources - security and insurance personnel working in Somalia, who are well acquainted with the area - told Haaretz that this story does not make sense, and that the official version put out by the U.S. authorities may conceal a different story. For instance, the indictment stated that the arms were to have been sent to a city called Bandera in northern Somalia. But a look at a map of Somalia reveals that this name is fictitious: No such place exists in Somalia.

Moreover, the shipping documents stated that the cargo was for "the Ministry of Defense of the Somali Republic." But the government of the separatist area known as Somaliland does not refer to itself as the "Somali Republic." Ever since the military coup in 1969 that sent the country down the sewer, its official name has been the Democratic Republic of Somalia.
 
nice question:)

---------- Post added at 12:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 PM ----------

do israeli arabs do mandatory conscription in the israily Army ;)
good question;

---------- Post added at 12:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 PM ----------

for slaughtering 9 civilians on the Mavi Marmara

apologize to America too, one of the activists was a U.S. citizen





Read the history of the conflict involving Ottoman Turks and the Armenians. That was a period when the empire was in ruins.

Ask yourself what israil would do if bedouins living in israil were to defect and swear loyalties to Syria or Iran for that matter.



as for Kurds, I dont see what the relation is? Turkiye is fighting against Kurdish rebels, not against Kurdish people. The Turks aren't so stupid, nor would they have the luxury of the international community remaining silent if they were to resort to wanton disregard for human life (the way some other countries do)



incidentally, even if what you said is true --- Turkey has purchased some arms from your country therefore that would make you complicit. No?
Why are so many Israelis arrested over illegal arms deals worldwide?


The U.S. authorities' recent arrest of an Israeli for seeking to sell arms to Somalia raises disturbing questions and answers.



At least seven Israeli arms dealers are currently in jail in four countries - the United States, Russia, France and Britain - on charges of illegal arms dealing. Some of them are also suspected of crimes such as forgery, bribery, money laundering and violating UN Security Council embargoes. Such arrests are briefly covered in Israel and then forgotten. But they have a cumulative effect that is very damaging to Israel's image, or what remains of it.

Even though it is doubtful whether those in jail know one another, they have quite a lot in common. All are men in their fifties or sixties. All are well to do (or were in the past ), having made most of their money in international arms dealing or in exporting security services and equipment from Israel. They served in the Israel Defense Forces and reached mid-level ranks (from captain to lieutenant colonel ), and when they were arrested, they denied the charges. Friends who came to their assistance described them, naturally, as "the salt of the earth."

All seven are familiar faces in the corridors of the defense establishment, and at one time received arms dealing permits from the Defense Ministry. All sought to "expedite procedures" in violation of local or international laws, and did so out of pure greed. Due to this covetousness, they also fell into traps and can expect to face many years in jail.

Shimon Naor-Hershkowitz is detained in France and will apparently be extradited to Romania, where he will serve an 11-year jail sentence. He was convicted of forging documents (end-user certificates ) that he used to purchase Romanian arms together with a Romanian partner (who later informed on him to the authorities ). The arms were ostensibly destined for Togo, but in reality were sent to rebels in Angola.

Yair Klein has been held for over a year in a Russian jail, after being arrested there at the behest of Colombia, which wants him on charges of training drug barons' bodyguards. Klein, almost 70, may be the Israeli who comes closest to being a "mercenary" of the ugliest sort. He has previously done jail time in Sierra Leone.

In a British jail sits Gidon Sarig, 58, who was sentenced several months ago to seven years in prison for selling arms and other combat gear to parties in Venezuela, Peru, Senegal, Nigeria, Gabon and, primarily, Sri Lanka.

And in January, Ofer Pazaf, 50, the president of a Kfar Sava company that works as an intermediary and represents security consultants and defense industries, was arrested in Las Vegas. Arrested with him were two other Israelis who have lived in the U.S. for several years: Yohanan Cohen, 47, the CEO of a San Francisco company that manufactures security gear, and Haim Gary, 50, the president of a Miami company that functions as a middleman for defense companies.

All three, along with 20 Americans and people of other nationalities, were arrested in a sting operation by the Federal Bureau of Investigations. One of the agents posed as a representative of the defense minister of an African country and pretended to be looking to purchase arms in return for a bribe - known in the professional lingo as a "commission."

The latest Israeli to find himself behind bars is Hanoch Miller, 53, who was arrested a few days ago in the United States. Together with his partner, retired U.S. Air Force colonel Joseph O'Toole, he is charged with attempts to obtain and sell thousands of AK-47 (Kalashnikov ) rifles to the "government" of Somaliland, a separatist region of northern Somalia. The arms were to have been purchased in the United States and to have been sent on cargo planes to Panama and Bosnia, and from there to Somaliland. But the plan fell through because the third partner, who was supposed to purchase the rifles for Miller and O'Toole, was actually an informer for the customs authorities.

European sources - security and insurance personnel working in Somalia, who are well acquainted with the area - told Haaretz that this story does not make sense, and that the official version put out by the U.S. authorities may conceal a different story. For instance, the indictment stated that the arms were to have been sent to a city called Bandera in northern Somalia. But a look at a map of Somalia reveals that this name is fictitious: No such place exists in Somalia.

Moreover, the shipping documents stated that the cargo was for "the Ministry of Defense of the Somali Republic." But the government of the separatist area known as Somaliland does not refer to itself as the "Somali Republic." Ever since the military coup in 1969 that sent the country down the sewer, its official name has been the Democratic Republic of Somalia.
 
do israeli arabs do mandatory conscription in the israily Army ;)

No the Arab Israeli are exempt of Military service (regardless of religion) with the exception of the Druze who have to do Military service.

At the same time there are some Bedouin's serving as well that's voluntary.
 
No the Arab Israeli are exempt of Military service (regardless of religion) with the exception of the Druze who have to do Military service.

At the same time there are some Bedouin's serving as well that's voluntary.

Makes sense.....basically, the Arabs are second class; viewed with a lot of suspicion

as for the Druze (such as those who defected from Lebanon during civil war) were your ear-pieces and assets.


i'm not trying to be overly cynical. I'm trying to make sense out of your earlier statement about Arabs in israil
 
Makes sense.....basically, the Arabs are second class; viewed with a lot of suspicion

as for the Druze (such as those who defected from Lebanon during civil war) were your ear-pieces and assets.


i'm not trying to be overly cynical. I'm trying to make sense out of your earlier statement about Arabs in israil

It looks that you don't know the facts on the ground concerning Israeli Arabs, as I don't think you have come across one.

Well... If they are second class and life for them so bad then as you say then why do most young people stay back in Israel? Why don't they move or emigrate to other Arab countries or for employment opportunity and betterment of life. With an Israeli passport Europe and US opens up, with an Arab passport it doesn't .Same cant be said about Pakistan for example where the young want to emigrate. One doesn't need Visa to travel with an Israeli passport. Still they stay,live and work in Israel. Just watch the Video link I posted in my earlier post.

As for the Druze they are spread all over the middle east in Lebanon,Syria,Israel and the ones who served in Israeli army haven't defected from anywhere..these were and still are the Israeli Druze.. the one's who defected were from Lebanon to set the record straight.

PS: The Israeli Druze have fought for the state of Israel since 1948 and are patriotic Israeli citizens quite prominent in the national mainstream.
 
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Arab passport??? Depends on the country, how many Arab countries are there.


i'm glad to hear that druze are patriotic; i wonder what's going on with the Ethiopians?
 
Arab passport??? Depends on the country, how many Arab countries are there.


i'm glad to hear that druze are patriotic; i wonder what's going on with the Ethiopians?

As far as I know with an passport of Egypt,Jordan,Syria, Lebanese North African Arab states and the rest one needs a visa to travel and work.

What's with Ethiopians? Must be happy in Ethiopia I guess
 

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