With Two Planes, India To Raise Its First Tejas Squadron In July.

[Zahoor Raja-Jani]

The Mk.2 will be 4.5+ gen also. Just because the Mk.1A may be classed as a 4.5 gen fighter doesn't mean it is equal to all others in that group, obviously is isn't equal to the Rafale or EFT in outright performance- nor was it ever meant to be.


Pakistan isn't sure but what's that got to do with India? The Mk.1A with improved avionics, an AESA radar and an advanced weapon suite is a 4.5 gen fighter by most measures (even though there isn't a steadfast rule for this).

Not agreed even I can't continue with you because I find no intellectual or well researched thing in you reply, just boosting Tejas because it labeled as made in India. Unfortunately reality is bit different. Keep preaching wrong info to like minds me out of it.

 

[asad71]

something is wrong in reporting....how come 2 could form a squadron as far as IAF is concerned..!

What can IAF Chief do if he has got only two aircraft? But Modi and Panikar needs all the media blast.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Not agreed even I can't continue with you because I find no intellectual or well researched thing in you reply, just boosting Tejas because it labeled as made in India. Unfortunately reality is bit different. Keep preaching wrong info to like minds me out of it.

You are aware your rebuttal to myself contains exactly what you accuse me of- closed mindedness and a lack of verifable facts?

Objectively the LCA Mk.1A is a 4.5 gen fighter, I'd like you to tell me why it isn't without blindly dismissing it purely because it is Indian.

 

[volatile]

I think this must be a world record in modern day history (may be F22 was introduced like this) .Two planes will make a squadron by the way in a squadron there are always few planes under maintainance i wonder how they established with 2 planes in the start ,and irony is it still has 19 + identified deficiencies .

Super Power showing might of its power

 

[Abingdonboy]

What can IAF Chief do if he has got only two aircraft? But Modi and Panikar needs all the media blast.

Tell me what other country waits until there are 14-18 aircraft ready for delivery to declare the formation of a squadron. it is perfectly reasonable to form a squadron with just one aircraft, deliveries will always be the limiting factor and no one inducts entire squadrons at a time.

Of course, where India and the LCA is concerned they are held to a different and entirely arbitrary standard.

I think this must be a world record in modern day history (may be F22 was introduced like this) .Two planes will make a squadron by the way in a squadron there are always few planes under maintainance i wonder how they established with 2 planes in the start ,and irony is it still has 19 + identified deficiencies .

Super Power showing might of its power

2 planes for the formation of the SQN, to be supplimented by a further 4 by the end of 2016 and a full SQN strength by the start of 2018.

The trolls really are clutching at straws these days, now they are trying to malign the LCA for its induction process. Getting desperate are we?

 

[nik141993]

Tell me what other country waits until there are 14-18 aircraft ready for delivery to declare the formation of a squadron. it is perfectly reasonable to form a squadron with just one aircraft, deliveries will always be the limiting factor and no one inducts entire squadrons at a time.

Of course, where India and the LCA is concerned they are held to a different and entirely arbitrary standard.


2 planes for the formation of the SQN, to be supplimented by a further 4 by the end of 2016 and a full SQN strength by the start of 2018.

The trolls really are clutching at straws these days, now they are trying to malign the LCA for its induction process. Getting desperate are we?

Why you even bother replying their intention is to ridicule & trolls indian achievements no matter what yo say, out of two posters one countryman country patent output is 16 another 5 & that sum up their R&D & scincetific output

 

[nang2]

Tell me what other country waits until there are 14-18 aircraft ready for delivery to declare the formation of a squadron. it is perfectly reasonable to form a squadron with just one aircraft, deliveries will always be the limiting factor and no one inducts entire squadrons at a time.

Of course, where India and the LCA is concerned they are held to a different and entirely arbitrary standard.


2 planes for the formation of the SQN, to be supplimented by a further 4 by the end of 2016 and a full SQN strength by the start of 2018.

The trolls really are clutching at straws these days, now they are trying to malign the LCA for its induction process. Getting desperate are we?

In some country, sometimes, even well after there have been 14-16 aircraft delivered, still no declaration of the formation is made public.

 

[shah1398]

Well it all depends on the nature of the "problems". These so-called 19 "issues" stated in the article all seem to be very minor but none of them were outlined in the ASQRs for the IAF's FOC so HAL can rightly handover the LCAs in FOC condtion to the IAF and say "we have satisifed your criteria". The onus to fix the minor issues that the IAF says exist will be on the IAF theselves as it is their plane and they can modify/customise it as they see fit in consultation with the OEM. Just like the IAF inducted the MKIs but once in service the ASTE has determined that there certain safety issues with the placement of critical switches and the IAF worked with the OEM (and HAL) to address these issues. This has been the case with every aircraft type in Indian service- they have been continually refined in accordance with the IAF's wishes as time has gone on.

Again, ASQRs are not exhaustive- they are a minimum criteria that outline in very broad terms what the outright performance of the plane should be, they do not dictate the minor issues like swtich placement, MFD configuration and such. Unless the noise intrusion or LG vibrations were noted in the ASQRs then HAL has no need to stall delivery to address these issues, they can all be rectified post-delviery in consultation with the user.


Well it entirely depends on the nature of the "issue". If it is not critical to flight safety and does not hinder the product's ability to deliver outright demanded performance as outlined by the user then they can't be responsible for "fixing" it as this is an entirely arbitrary methodolgy and by applying this framework no plane would ever enter service as there would always be scope to improve/tweak. It is for the user to outline their minimum benchmark and for the supplier to meet this, then the product is purchased and enters service. If after that date the user wants certain things improved this is possible in accordance with the user's wishes.

Thank U Sir for your precious time.

 

[asad71]

Tell me what other country waits until there are 14-18 aircraft ready for delivery to declare the formation of a squadron. it is perfectly reasonable to form a squadron with just one aircraft, deliveries will always be the limiting factor and no one inducts entire squadrons at a time.

Of course, where India and the LCA is concerned they are held to a different and entirely arbitrary standard.


2 planes for the formation of the SQN, to be supplimented by a further 4 by the end of 2016 and a full SQN strength by the start of 2018.

The trolls really are clutching at straws these days, now they are trying to malign the LCA for its induction process. Getting desperate are we?

Yep, I don't know of any other country / air force that had to wait for 14 years to see any tangible result.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

1. Aeronautical Development Agency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - started in 1984 specifically for LCA. How many LCAs are currently in use? In 32 years.

2. No one said knowledge is wasted. I just think the track record of most state run firms is pathetic because they are run by career bureaucrats and not headed by professionals specialized in that field.

3. Indian firms were not allowed to invest in the Defence sector till recently. How would they make a glider if they were not even allowed?

30 years? Dude, stop kidding yourself. That's like saying AMCA has started in 09. It's not even an official program yet, it's just a concept.No money given to build any prototypes. No different to LCA 30 years ago.

ADA was formed 32 years ago, to build some sort of, "LCA", but it was also India's only defence aerospace R&D wing at the time.

I dont know what you expect of India's private firms back then, let alone 10 years ago. India locked them completely out of the defence game, until only recently. And they themselves are leeching off of on DRDO's, HAL programs. Example being the private firms are going to create modules for LCA, and AMCA in the future for HAL/DRDO. Along several other examples of PPP engagement.

People then would bash Agni 1 and Prithivs for taking a long time with countless failures, I wonder what those same people say now when they hear of K4s/K15s flawless trials out of Arihant.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Tell me what other country waits until there are 14-18 aircraft ready for delivery to declare the formation of a squadron. it is perfectly reasonable to form a squadron with just one aircraft, deliveries will always be the limiting factor and no one inducts entire squadrons at a time.

your neighbour they inducted 16 a couple of days ago. but i do see your point, just trying to prove a point.
aircraft are inducted in batches as a incremental induction but i think the guys point is that 2 is very low. also consider the huge shortfall iaf face in the number of jets.

New Batch of JF-17 Thunder Jets Inducted Into Pakistan Air Force Fleet -The New Indian Express

 

[volatile]

2 planes for the formation of the SQN, to be supplimented by a further 4 by the end of 2016 and a full SQN strength by the start of 2018.

The trolls really are clutching at straws these days, now they are trying to malign the LCA for its induction process. Getting desperate are we?

This is not trolling this is putting figures straight back at you . I Mean they didn't even felt embarrassed even announcing this .?

 

[Jackdaws]

So establishment of the ADA is when you think the LCA design work started? You think this entirely new department began work from day one? Either way, you've proved my point- before the LCA there was almost no infrastructure in India for designing, testing,certifing and producing such a plane.

I said it was specifically created for the LCA. Did I say it started work from day one? But would it be safe to assume it started work in 6 months? Or were they just chilling for a dozen odd years?

 

[Abingdonboy]

In some country, sometimes, even well after there have been 14-16 aircraft delivered, still no declaration of the formation is made public.

India is an open democracy, considering the LCA has been funded solely from taxypayer funds it is only right such things are publicised especially in light of the amount of criticsm this project has received. It is good to show those who pay for it that it is a success.

Thank U Sir for your precious time.

You are most welcome my friend, it is always good to have such rational discussions.

your neighbour they inducted 16 a couple of days ago.

The JF-17 has been in production for a decade now, it is hardly fair to compare where the JF-17's induction rate stands today to the LCA's. Within 3 years the LCA will be produced at an equal rate (16/year).

Look at the first years of JF-17 production:

Small batch production of the single-seat, single-engine JF-17s began in China in June 2006. The first two small-batch-produced aircraft were delivered on 2 March 2007 and first flew in Pakistan on 10 March.[88] They took part in an aerial display on 23 March 2007 as part of the Pakistan Day Joint Services Parade in Islamabad.[89][90] Another six small-batch-produced aircraft were delivered by March 2008.[91] These were extensively flight-tested and evaluated by the PAF.[92] Two serial production aircraft were delivered from China in 2009 and the first Pakistani-manufactured aircraft was delivered to the PAF in a ceremony on 23 November 2009.[93]

Small batch deliveries intially also.

but i think the guys point is that 2 is very low

They will be joined by another 4 by the end of the year and another 8 in 2017.

also consider the huge shortfall iaf face in the number of jets.

These aren't the final figure the IAF is ever going to induct, ramping up production takes time.

I said it was specifically created for the LCA. Did I say it started work from day one? But would it be safe to assume it started work in 6 months? Or were they just chilling for a dozen odd years?

@Water Car Engineer has answered this perfectly.

 

[Jackdaws]

30 years? Dude, stop kidding yourself. That's like saying AMCA has started in 09. It's not even an official program yet, it's just a concept.No money given to build any prototypes. No different to LCA 30 years ago.

ADA was formed 32 years ago, to build some sort of, "LCA", but it was also India's only defence aerospace R&D wing at the time.

I dont know what you expect of India's private firms back then, let alone 10 years ago. India locked them completely out of the defence game, until only recently. And they themselves are leeching off of on DRDO's, HAL programs. Example being the private firms are going to create modules for LCA, and AMCA in the future for HAL/DRDO. Along several other examples of PPP engagement.

People then would bash Agni 1 and Prithivs for taking a long time with countless failures, I wonder what those same people say now when they hear of K4s/K15s flawless trials out of Arihant.

Well, let me see - what would I expect of India's private firms back then? I would expect them to hire the best of talents and manage it in a professional manner. Kind of like McDonnell Douglas, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Hughes Aircraft Company and others. I do believe that engineering firms in India like Larsen & Toubro, TELCO and Mahindra could have done a better job if given the freedom. But you are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine. There is no harm in that.