With thousands of commercial vessels, how China controls the seas

[jhungary]

Am not asking you. Am testing you.


Am asking that.


We will get to that.

So...Can a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) GRAPHICALLY distinguish a tanker from a fishing trawler?

Dude, you still going on with him

It will probably take him his entire life to understand how E-Dub Work.

 

[Han Patriot]

Am not asking you. Am testing you.


Am asking that.


We will get to that.

So...Can a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) GRAPHICALLY distinguish a tanker from a fishing trawler?

God, for another friggin nth time, do you have an understanding problem or something? I asked you why your fart stinks and you tell me your mouth stinks. Wtf logic is that.

Dude, you still going on with him

It will probably take him his entire life to understand how E-Dub Work.

Mr. Lng. Are you still gonna pipe your lng in pipes? Lololol

 

[gambit]

God, for another friggin nth time, do you have an understanding problem or something?

Here is your original statement in post 34:

Explain to me how a 'marine radar' can know which ship is which when the AIS is off.​

That is 'know', not 'identify'. You moved the goalposts when it turned out you would be exposed as the ignoramus that you are.

So...Since we know that a radar, using surface movements, can distinguish a tanker from a fishing trawler, is it possible for a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) to GRAPHICALLY distinguish a tanker from a fishing trawler.

Should be easy enough for someone with your claimed technical experience, right?

 

[Han Patriot]

Here is your original statement in post 34:

Explain to me how a 'marine radar' can know which ship is which when the AIS is off.​

That is 'know', not 'identify'. You moved the goalposts when it turned out you would be exposed as the ignoramus that you are.

So...Since we know that a radar, using surface movements, can distinguish a tanker from a fishing trawler, is it possible for a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) to GRAPHICALLY distinguish a tanker from a fishing trawler.

Should be easy enough for someone with your claimed technical experience, right?

Yup, you conveniently excluded what I said subsequently, how does the radar know which ship is which, which flag it belongs to? Until now you are still. Not answering me......lol

 

[gambit]

Yup, you conveniently excluded what I said subsequently, how does the radar know which ship is which, which flag it belongs to? Until now you are still. Not answering me......lol

The answer is 'Yes', of course a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) can GRAPHICALLY distinguish a tanker from a fishing trawler. So now we have physical structures and movements to figure out the two ships. What else do you think we can add on to this?

 

[Han Patriot]

The answer is 'Yes', of course a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) can GRAPHICALLY distinguish a tanker from a fishing trawler. So now we have physical structures and movements to figure out the two ships. What else do you think we can add on to this?

You are still not answering the question because you know a radar cannot know a ships identity or flag. Can it identify different ownership of tankers? This was the question I was asking.

The answer is 'Yes', of course a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) can GRAPHICALLY distinguish a tanker from a fishing trawler. So now we have physical structures and movements to figure out the two ships. What else do you think we can add on to this?

Well, it seems you know the real answer and is trying to save face. You just repeat the same answer to a different question. Like a woke cheerleading repeating the word democracy. Lol.

 

[gambit]

You are still not answering the question because you know a radar cannot know a ships identity or flag. Can it identify different ownership of tankers? This was the question I was asking.

Negative...

With thousands of commercial vessels, how China controls the seas

I thought you were talking about the OP article, as for global sea blocade, no one will do this at least for now, globalization means no one can survive by themselves, espeically for manufacturing lacking US, so it's not really a worry. South China sea and Taiwan strait are the only two possible...

defence.pk

Explain to me how a 'marine radar' can know which ship is which when the AIS is off.​

Like I said, you moved the goalposts. Radars do not need AIS in the first place to know which ship is which. SAR can give even more details such as wake formations to help. But here is how a long range ground based OTH radar can distinguish ships based on their wake formations.

https://ietresearch.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1049/joe.2019.0508

A localised pressure distribution in uniform translational motion across or within the sea results in various disturbances in the fluid. In the case of greatest interest, where the pressure distribution is engendered by a moving ship, we can classify these disturbances into more than a dozen classes

• the Bernoulli hump,
• the Kelvin wake,
• the turbulent wake,
• near-field vortex structures,
• pancake eddies,
• wave breaking events,
• internal waves,
• temperature gradients due to vertical mixing,
• magnetohydrodynamic effects,
• acoustic radiation in the fluid body,
• surfactant distributions on the surface,
• bioluminescence,
• radiological emissions.

 

[Han Patriot]

Negative...

With thousands of commercial vessels, how China controls the seas

I thought you were talking about the OP article, as for global sea blocade, no one will do this at least for now, globalization means no one can survive by themselves, espeically for manufacturing lacking US, so it's not really a worry. South China sea and Taiwan strait are the only two possible...

defence.pk

Explain to me how a 'marine radar' can know which ship is which when the AIS is off.​

Like I said, you moved the goalposts. Radars do not need AIS in the first place to know which ship is which. SAR can give even more details such as wake formations to help. But here is how a long range ground based OTH radar can distinguish ships based on their wake formations.

https://ietresearch.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1049/joe.2019.0508

A localised pressure distribution in uniform translational motion across or within the sea results in various disturbances in the fluid. In the case of greatest interest, where the pressure distribution is engendered by a moving ship, we can classify these disturbances into more than a dozen classes

• the Bernoulli hump,
• the Kelvin wake,
• the turbulent wake,
• near-field vortex structures,
• pancake eddies,
• wave breaking events,
• internal waves,
• temperature gradients due to vertical mixing,
• magnetohydrodynamic effects,
• acoustic radiation in the fluid body,
• surfactant distributions on the surface,
• bioluminescence,
• radiological emissions.

Until now you are still not answering my question. Shessh, did your mum drop you as a baby. My question is very simple, can a radar without AIS identify a ships flag and ownership without AIS. Please answer it as either Yes or No. Its very simple...... =)

 

[gambit]

Until now you are still not answering my question. Shessh, did your mum drop you as a baby. My question is very simple, can a radar without AIS identify a ships flag and ownership without AIS. Please answer it as either Yes or No. Its very simple...... =)

Here is your original comment...

With thousands of commercial vessels, how China controls the seas

I thought you were talking about the OP article, as for global sea blocade, no one will do this at least for now, globalization means no one can survive by themselves, espeically for manufacturing lacking US, so it's not really a worry. South China sea and Taiwan strait are the only two possible...

defence.pk

Explain to me how a 'marine radar' can know which ship is which when the AIS is off.​

Here is your stupidity -- the radar does not 'know' anything. All the radar does is report the electronic signatures of an object. It is the human that must 'know' and 'identify'. For example...

Can a fishing trawler be that close to a tanker? Yes, it can. But normally not. But then what kind of vessels are operationally allowed to be that close? A tug boat. Does simply observing give that kind of knowledge? No. Training and experience does. So can an experience captain reading the radar scope figure out which ship from which? Yes, he can. Shipping lanes have rules so an experienced captain reading the radar scope can figure out what kind of vessels based upon their paths. We have been doing this long before AIS came.

Traffic separation scheme - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But not all ships are AIS equipped, so that fall back on radars and the human experience at reading them. So of course you have to move the goalposts.

 

[Goritoes]

Do normal fishing ships appear on Naval radars ? If yes China can use them to swarm USN ships, probably load many with explosives to attack, that could be a bad-*** strategy if it works.

 

[gambit]

Do normal fishing ships appear on Naval radars ? If yes China can use them to swarm USN ships, probably load many with explosives to attack, that could be a bad-*** strategy if it works.

Yes, even dinghies can appear on radars. And no, the swarming tactics cannot work despite what that exercise way back then may say.

 

[Goritoes]

Yes, even dinghies can appear on radars. And no, the swarming tactics cannot work despite what that exercise way back then may say.

Any particular reason ? in shallow waters, can't terrain be used with swarms of boat to attack ship(s) from multiple direction, or lets say Drone boats.

 

[gambit]

Any particular reason ? in shallow waters, can't terrain be used with swarms of boat to attack ship(s) from multiple direction, or lets say Drone boats.

If the carrier is at port, then anything could happen. But if we are talking about attacking the carrier in battle, then the swarming tactic so often extolled by our Iranian members would not work.

For starter, there is something call the 'Douglas Sea State'...

Douglas sea scale - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We would be looking at the boats going across open water in unknown sea condition. Can the boats survive long enough to make it to the carrier and coordinate their attacks? Not likely. Anyone who has ever been 10 kts in one foot swell know what a beating the ride can be.

Next, can they escape detection? They would be detected by the two SSNs that usually accompany the fleet long before they can make it even 1/4 of the way. The subs would contact the fleet and the game would be up.

Next, can they survive the inevitable air assault?

Next, how fast are the boats? The carrier is nuclear powered and can hit 30+ kts. How long can the boats keep up assuming they somehow managed to know the carrier's position in real time? What is the boat's bingo fuel, meaning the fuel quantity that is the point of no return?

 

[jhungary]

Do normal fishing ships appear on Naval radars ? If yes China can use them to swarm USN ships, probably load many with explosives to attack, that could be a bad-*** strategy if it works.

Swamping attack is not a new occurrence, Japanese uses swamping attack at the dying stage of WW2 to some degree of success, but it's mostly hit and miss. Take USS Laffey for example, it was attacked by 50+ Japanese planes, both with conventional attacks and Kamakazi strike. Laffey was hit by 4 bombs and 6 Kamakazi (Out of that 50 planes) and down at least 32 + plane, it floats and it is now a museum ship in Patriot Point, SC

USS Laffey (DD-724) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now, that's a single destroyed on a picket duty. It's not an aircraft carrier surrounded by its battle group escort. Completed with Naval and Air Cover, yet, it's based on the ships own agility (The ship dodged a lot of the Kamikaze Attack).The damage is not extensive. What would you think if a Fleet of 50 Fishing boat, which is less maneuverable than Aircraft swamping a fully protected Carrier with 5 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser and at least 4 Carrier Battlegroup as escort??

From what we learn from USS Laffey attack, such swamping attack is very hard to organise, and you no longer have a few solid element you have to control, and even in the case with the Japanese where there are people behind the plane, that still a giant blob of mess to attack the Laffey,

Then you have the firepower, Laffey was not really armed to the teeth like Carrier and their Battlegroup do, Laffey do not have CIWS, do not have mk41 launcher, do not have air cover (it did at the end) the problem is, Working with E-2D, those swamping fishing boat would have been picked up long before they get into the Carrier Exclusion zone, then you will have all the escort and probably air sorties to lock at all those target, 5 AB class destroyer can combine lock a total of 1000+ target. And fire their SM-2 Missile and 5 inch on target from 23 miles away to 100 miles away. That would already take out chunk of those Swarming fishing boat. And then you also have airpower and lock at anything that's escape the escort net. Then if the formation has not yet been broken, you will face close in weapon system and crew serve weapon on those boat.

In short, a swarming attack today on any protected carrier are usually pointless. You will need more fishing boat than the entire Armament of the entire Carrier Battlegroup to be effective, and there are a lot of armament and firepower on board of a CBG

 

[James David]

A Russian Tu-95 Bomber (yes it was that long ago)

D@mn and I thought you were with the army dude! You were already in the service when I was in junior high or something?

Am trying to establish his technical knowledge as how he claimed about himself. But of course, his consistent evasion is revealing his pretensions.

Dude stop explaining haven't you heard about Chinese Physics?