Will the Taliban Destroy Pakistan?

[Raja.Pakistani]

Welcome back mate still they have support and they will keep getting support as long as our Forces and government are seen as mercenaries of USA and to end that moral stand we need to do is stop drones and nato supplies and our Forces for a while too and than form committee of 12 biggest Ulemas and also invite Imam e Kaba and Imam e Masjid e Nabwi together and than ask TTP to come forward and put forward their demands and those demands which are accepted by Ulemas implement them other wise this war will continue

We know their demand. They want to take control of Pakistan and Pakistani people and want freedom to use atomic bomb for whoever they wish lol and want to appoint Mr zarvan as calipha of Pakistan irrespective of whether people want Zarvan as their calipha or not as they would butcher anyone who will oppose their violent ideology or forced implementation of Islam

Actually, some say they are keeping USA at bay or something along those lines....

But they fail to see civilians dying but then the same argue..America is also doing the same job

I just want it all to end, America to pack up and go home while the TTP or whatever to go home ...Man whats with you people cant you let the people live their lives?

Civilians would not die if these brave lad fight with enemy (whether Pakistan army or NATO) face to face instead of hiding themselves in civilians and use them as human shields

I was also against this war on terror for different reason but at the same time they invited america by giving protection and asylum to maulna osama. I know now some Pakistani will come up different conspiracies theories about 9/11 and usa

 

[KingMamba]

Are you saying that Shariah is barbaric?

They are not following sharia, they are following barbarianism and apparently you condone their behavior.

 

[KingMamba]

Pakistan helped in creation of Taliban and supported the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. Pakistanis told the Afghans that Taliban was good for them. Now when Taliban wants to impose their regime in Pakistan, the Pakistani establishment opposes it.. If Taliban was good for Afghanistan, why is it not good for Pakistan?

You show ignorance, arrogance, and stupidity every time you post. Afghans told Afghans that the Taliban were good for them, Taliban controlled 90% of that country were there any revolts against their rule? Nope. In fact most cities and towns welcomed the Taliban in.

Go learn the history than come here or else you are just barking.

 

[shuntmaster]

They are not following sharia, they are following barbarianism and apparently you condone their behavior.

Taliban claim they are the true custodians of the Sharia and many Muslims agree with them. I don't know where you got the idea that I condone their behavior. The truth is the exact opposite.. But Pakistan did condone their behavior by being their staunchest and biggest backers in Afghanistan until 9/11 happened in 2001.

You show ignorance, arrogance, and stupidity every time you post. Afghans told Afghans that the Taliban were good for them, Taliban controlled 90% of that country were there any revolts against their rule? Nope. In fact most cities and towns welcomed the Taliban in.

Go learn the history than come here or else you are just barking.

Its your ignorance which is very glaringly or your intellectual hypocrisy being displayed.. Yeah, Taliban controlled majority of Afghanistan prior to 9/11, and Afghans had no choice but to accept their rule. Pakistan played a very big and active role in Taliban capturing 90% of Afghanistan.

Cross posting from another thread
Getting it Right in Afghanistan: Prospects for 2014 | Page 2

Ample proof of ISI-Taliban love affair has been presented already.If you choose to deny that even now, there is no use in discussing it any further.
Heres few to refresh your memory.

The Taliban's early victories in 1994 were followed by a series of defeats that resulted in heavy losses which led analysts to believe the Taliban movement had run its course. At that point Pakistan and Saudi Arabia drastically increased their support to the Taliban
THE MASSACRE IN MAZAR-I SHARIF
Pakistan: "The Taliban's Godfather"?

On August 1, 1997 the Taliban launched an attack on Sheberghan the main military base. The reason the attack was successful was due to 1500 Pakistani commandos taking part and that the Pakistani air force also gave support.
Clements, Frank (2003). Conflict in Afghanistan: a historical encyclopedia


A 1998 document by the U.S. State Department confirms that "20–40 percent of [regular] Taliban soldiers are Pakistani".
Pakistan: "The Taliban's Godfather"?

 

[KingMamba]

Taliban claim they are the true custodians of the Sharia and many Muslims agree with them. I don't know where you got the idea that I condone their behavior. The truth is the exact opposite.. But Pakistan did condone their behavior by being their staunchest and biggest backers in Afghanistan until 9/11 happened in 2001.



Its your ignorance which is very glaringly or intellectual your hypocrisy being displayed.. Yeah, Taliban controlled majority of Afghanistan prior to 9/11, and Afghans had no choice but to accept their rule. Pakistan played a very big and active role in Taliban capturing 90% of Afghanistan.

Cross posting from another thread
Getting it Right in Afghanistan: Prospects for 2014 | Page 2

Nope some Muslims say Pakistan should have sharia but that is very different from what the Taliban advocate. You know this but you are a jahil troll which is why you continuously sprout nonsense despite people telling you otherwise.

Watch this it is straight from the mouths of Taliban commanders themselves.

Taliban was a local movement of Pashtuns, Pakistan backed them because they were Pashtuns and not hostile to Pakistan. It was the only government in Afghanistan which was not hostile to Pakistan ever so that is why Pakistani government backed them, had they been hostile Pakistan would not have backed them it was that simple. Any country would back a movement that is not hostile to their interests. That does not mean Pakistan approved of how they ran their country, besides Indian government was backing NA which was made up of non Pashtun warlords so would India accept warlordism for themselves? Don't answer we both know the answer, truth is you Indians who bring shit like this up are retarded.

Anyway the Taliban at war with Pakistan today is not even the Afghan Taliban, they are two different entities with two different motives. TTP was created in the mid 2000's like I said go learn history.

 

[shuntmaster]

Nope some Muslims say Pakistan should have sharia but that is very different from what the Taliban advocate. You know this but you are a jahil troll which is why you continuously sprout nonsense despite people telling you otherwise.

Taliban was a local movement of Pashtuns, Pakistan backed them because they were Pashtuns and not hostile to Pakistan. It was the only government in Afghanistan which was not hostile to Pakistan ever so that is why Pakistani government backed them, had they been hostile Pakistan would not have backed them it was that simple. Any country would back a movement that is not hostile to their interests. That does not mean Pakistan approved of how they ran their country, besides Indian government was backing NA which was made up of non Pashtun warlords so would India accept warlordism for themselves? Don't answer we both know the answer, truth is you Indians who bring shit like this up are retarded.

Anyway the Taliban at war with Pakistan today is not even the Afghan Taliban, they are two different entities with two different motives. TTP was created in the mid 2000's like I said go learn history.

1. Majority of Pakistanis want Sharia. I can give proofs of many surveys to show this, but I think you already know this. Only problem is, they are not in agreement in what kind of Sharia they want. Taliban is clear on their interpretation of Sharia and claim that it is the purest and most Islamic as it can be.

2. Originally, Taliban were indeed from the Afghan Pashtuns, but their origins were in the Madrasas in Pakistani side of the border. Pakistan's ISI was very active in formation of Taliban from the Pashtun remnants of the Anti-soviet Mujaheddin. Ex-DG of ISI, Rtd. Gen. Hamid Gul is called the 'Father of Taliban' for some reason. Taliban was formed during Gen. Gul's tenure in ISI.

3. Originally the Afghans were not hostile to Pakistan. The non-Taliban/non-Pashtun Afghans only became hostile after Pakistan imposed the Taliban in their country and actively aided the Taliban regime in Kabul. The Pakistani establishment foisted the Taliban regime in Afghanistan for their own selfish goal of strengthening their doctrine of 'Strategic Depth' and not with the intention of doing good for Afghanistan/Afghans. Pakistan didn't care regarding what the ordinary Afghans wanted or felt, especially that of non-Pashtun ethnicity's in Afghanistan.

What Pakistan started as an instrument of Strategic depth in Afghanistan, has now morphed into Pashtun Pan-nationalism and has come to bite Pakistan in the back...

 

[AhsanAmin]

Majority of Pakistanis want Shariai .I can give proofs of many surveys to show this, but I think you already know this. Only problem is, they are not in agreement in what kind of Sharia they want.

Religious political parties who say this, did not win from more than a few(15 + 4)/342 constituencies in last National Assembly elections held last year.

2. Originally, Taliban were indeed from the Afghan Pashtuns, but their origins were in the Madrasas in Pakistani side of the border. Pakistan's ISI was very active in formation of Taliban from the Pashtun remnants of the Anti-soviet Mujaheddin. Ex-DG of ISI, Rt. Grn. Hamid Gul is called the 'Father of Taliban' for nothing. Taliban was formed during Gen. Gul's tenure in ISI.

It might have been right at that time since Pakistan/Balochistan would probably have been the next target of soviet union. What they(ISI) could not understand that 'defending a country' is different from being too ambitious/euphoric, as you rightly mentioned in point three, and start thinking about ideas of gaining 'strategic depth' by making a government of choice in Afghanistan.

Despite what we may think or like, the days of finding allies and friends by forcing puppet governments on people of any country are going to end, and this approach will backfire for every country. It would be better for every government, to genuinely help other people and build economic ties that matter and this would be the right way to win the hearts of other people.
As Pakistanis, we have to understand that this approach has been better followed by India and Iran, and we start complaining about their influence in Afghanistan.

 

[ejaz007]

What a joke! They come uninvited to every country then say according to rule no so and so we cant cross border ...

I do not care they came uninvited or invited to Afghanistan. But they can not come to Pakistan uninvited. There is a difference between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Otherwise you would have seen their bases in Peshawar instead of Kabul.

 

[Porus]

So Mr.haq you are saying that ill-educated and uncivilized pashtun tribesmen would conquer settled and civilized punjabis , sindhis and mohajirs?. I do agree with ibn-e-khaldun that tribesmen have more courage and social cohesion. But mr-haq taliban are more than just tribesmen, they are driven by an ideology which originated from deoband , india, settled and civilized area. They are receiving funds from civilized and settled saudi arabia and their ideology deobandism has incorporated some elements from wahabism of arabia. So they are not huns or mongols, they are driven by an ideology. Moreover you conveniently skipped punjabi taliban, They are not tribesmen and hails from civilized and settled punjab. Uzbeks of uzbekistan were part of highly "civilized' soviet union and they are not tribsmen from mountains, the islamists from that country are part of uncivilized Taliban.




If you check the definition of revolutionaries then you would realize that its Taliban (not burgers of PTI) who are revolutionaries..The definition of revolution is,




the usually violent attempt by many people to end the rule of one government/system and start a new one

If Haq had a smidgen of integrity he wouldn't have blamed the "uncivilized" tribesmen for the quagmire of barbarism islam ka qila is sinking into deeper and deeper with every passing minute, but he would have blamed the truly despicable and vile creatures who are at the helm of affairs in this country and choose and implement policies that serve their own interests.

Pakfaujzindabad (known as a mercenary army that fight for all the masters of the earth if the reward is more than peanuts) is the biggest culprit. The era of Jihad against the Soviets was the golden era for the army generals and ISI as they were controlling those billions of dollars Saudis and CIA were pumping into the Jihadi industry. Zia ur rajeem funded new Deobandi/Wahabi Madrasas with the money provided to him by his Saudi maters. It's also not a secret anymore what kind of rigid form of Islam was inculcated and enforced in the minds of the young Afghan and Pashtun kids in those Madrasas. i wonder why the didn't open those madrasas in the environs of Lahore, Hindu is the real enemy anyway?

The most amazing thing is that the dumb generals of Pakfajzindabad are still betting on the Afghan Talibans, although according to Ahmed Rashid Pakfaujzindabad began to lose control over Jihadi groups when Mullah Omar handed over their training camps in Afghanistan to Al Quaeda. Pakistani Jihadis who are chasing their own Pakfaujzindabad in the mountains of Roh were indoctrinated with the idea of global jihad in those same madrasas by Al Quaeda.

 

[Zarvan]

We know their demand. They want to take control of Pakistan and Pakistani people and want freedom to use atomic bomb for whoever they wish lol and want to appoint Mr zarvan as calipha of Pakistan irrespective of whether people want Zarvan as their calipha or not as they would butcher anyone who will oppose their violent ideology or forced implementation of Islam


Civilians would not die if these brave lad fight with enemy (whether Pakistan army or NATO) face to face instead of hiding themselves in civilians and use them as human shields

I was also against this war on terror for different reason but at the same time they invited america by giving protection and asylum to maulna osama. I know now some Pakistani will come up different conspiracies theories about 9/11 and usa

If you want to talk shit that is your problem and problem of others like you the ashamed muslims but its not what they want and it was our forces who betrayed afghans and Tribals

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

If you want to talk shit that is your problem and problem of others like you the ashamed muslims but its not what they want and it was our forces who betrayed afghans and Tribals

Jahil mullah like you, and your TTP bring shame to Muslims and Islam by blowing up themselves in civilians and label it jihad and expect virgin hoors as a reward for this brave act . I am not ashamed of being Muslim but i am ashamed of having jahil Mullah among us who spread hate, bigotry and religious intolerance to their followers and kill each others and try to impose their version of Islam in throat of others by force and blame america for everything instead of doing some introspection. Afghans betrayed themselves as they all cannot even tolerate each others and different groups/ethnicity were fighting among each others for power and rule and they are still not united. Mullah zarvan please stop blaming others for your own shortcomings