"Will cut tongue of anyone who wants to change Blasphemy Laws" - JI

[Vazir]

I am more interested in how you differentiate yourself from the ISIS/TTP ideology.

I just have trouble understanding anyone with the blood-lust to want to mutilate (not just kill) anyone who wants to discuss amending a law to, at the very minimum, ensure that it protects those who are wrongly accused.

Therefore, I fail to understand the mentality of the "righteous mobs" who kill blasphemy-accused (usually just framed) in the most brutal ways --- and then desecrate / mutilate the bodies further. There is no room for this in our religion or in our laws. This is why Amir Mushtaq must be condemned. This is also why the Imam of the mosque in Chitral who protected the accused is extraordinary --- if you were the Imam of the mosque, you probably would have gouged the poor fellow's eyes out and kept his severed tongue as a trophy on your bedside as proof of your most unquestionable piety.

I believe in very heightened religious tolerance because a.) frankly we are not living in a Caliphate and b.) intolerance is the seed from which extremism grows. In the final analysis, the Almighty will provide Divine Justice anyway.

Why does the thought of blasphemy rouse such violent emotions when most of the goons calling for blood are living lives that are barely in accordance with Islamic principles of justice, mercy and fairness? Ishq-e-Rasool is present in all good Muslims --- the true believers just live it out in their daily lives and not just when the local mullah tells them to go lynch someone. I've never seen these mobs do something positive, like clean the streets, help women or give shelter to innocent animals.

@Divergent1 @Azlan Haider @Verve @Vazir

I want to add that the Prophet was abused physically, mentally, and verbally by his opponents during his Prophethood spent in Makkah. And how did he reply to that? By sentencing them to death? No, he forgave them. Even though what they did was far more than what "blasphemy" is defined by today. He forgave them, and that in itself makes the death penalty for blasphemy ridiculous in Sharia. I'm not even going to state the large holes in the so called "Ijma" on the blasphemy situation that is so loosely claimed by the radical forces. We must stop this madness.

 

[Vazir]

I'll reply on this thread in detail later, there is a few things that need sorting out. Meanwhile, Is Amir Mushtaq any different from ISSI/TTP in your eyes? If he is no different, then there you go. Now you have a way to legally pursue action against him. All ATCs in the country would be very, very strict against ISIS/TTP. How about you proceed with the lawsuit?

Son, the law doesn't protect people like us. It didn't protect Shahbaz Bhatti. It didn't protect Salman Taseer (it sentenced Qadri, but he was turned into a hero). It certainly will fail to protect anyone who decides to challenge the constitutionality of the laws. When politicians are getting gunned by their own security, what's to say that any of us will be safe?
Despite that, it's hard to stay quiet on this now. As Salman Taseer said: ".... now it's open season". Stop this if you can.

 

[Verve]

@R Wing

Time and place for the blasphemy law revisions/discussion, and right now is not it. I am not against a meaningful discussion in power corridors but we need calm in the society for that to happen. Society is too polarised and we are in the middle of a proxy war and a threat of conventional war looming as well. We simply can't afford mass street protests and whatnot by opening this front as well.

But a small group who wants immediate change, are completely disregarding all these factors.

Equally interesting how anyone who disagrees with a conservative-bordering-on-extremist mindset is labeled a liberal without any brainpower.

Most Pakistani liberals are pseudo-liberals who want to be exactly like the West. Many are atheist. I am neither. I believe Western policies and terrorism has caused incredible damage to the Muslim world. The US has supported extremists of various hues throughout history. The liberals fail to understand this.

The problem is that the extremists on both sides drown out all moderate voices. The only difference is that the liberal extremists generally aren't out for blood.

Conservative mindsets often lead to a heightened degree of intolerance because they generally feel that their interpretation must be the best, and it's a slippery slope to extremism from there. I have nothing but respect for people who live their lives based on the esteemed principles of our religion. What I do have a problem with is people who insist that Islam has singular interpretations and who try and enforce their preferred interpretation on others as the "absolute truth."

It's a vicious circle. If the pseudo-liberals here do not stop name calling etc etc, the brush will reach the other liberals. Just as conservatives are being labelled as extremists.

For that to stop we need restraint, and who is more vocal using harsh language on social media ... yes, the pseudo-liberals.

 

[Vazir]

@R Wing

Time and place for the blasphemy law revisions/discussion, and right now is not it. I am not against a meaningful discussion in power corridors but we need calm in the society for that to happen. Society is too polarised and we are in the middle of a proxy war and a threat of conventional war looming as well. We simply can't afford mass street protests and whatnot by opening this front as well.

But a small group who wants immediate change, are completely disregarding all these factors.

All of the problems that you mentioned are interlinked with radicalization. I have stressed time to time that to win insurgencies a s unconventional warfare you need to win hearts and minds, or at least change them. We can't do that while students are getting lynched like this and people like Molana Burqa running around free.

 

[Verve]

All of the problems that you mentioned are interlinked with radicalization. I have stresses time to time that to win insurgencies a s unconventional warfare you need to win hearts and minds, or at least change them. We can't do that while students are getting lynched like this and people like Molana Burqa running around free.

Until we reduce poverty, there is no chance of reducing radicalisation on both ends.

Religious extremism feeds pseudo-liberals and vice versa. And ones crushed by it all are the genuine liberals and conservatives.

 

[Vazir]

Until we reduce poverty, there is no chance of reducing radicalisation on both ends.

Religious extremism feeds pseudo-liberals and vice versa. And ones crushed by it all are the genuine liberals and conservatives.

I agree, but I wonder what you mean by psuedo liberals. Do you mean socialists, hard-left or classic Bernie supporters?

 

[Verve]

We can't do that while students are getting lynched like this and people like Molana Burqa running around free

We can't do that either when Bhensa, Tarek Fateh types are spewing whatever they are and conservatives are being bashed on the social media.

The word 'restraint' is lost.

I agree, but I wonder what you mean by psuedo liberals. Do you mean socialists, hard-left or classic Bernie supporters?

Bhensa etc plus those here who are trigger happy labelling all conservatives as extremists. Anyone with an extreme rigid mindset unwilling to accept other's view.

 

[Vazir]

We can't do that either when Bhensa, Tarek Fateh types are spewing whatever they are and conservatives are being bashed on the social media.

The word 'restraint' is lost.

I absolutely get your point. I hate Tarek Fateh too. But while I don't like the attitude of the extremes of both sides, I really believe that the two laws need to go.

 

[Vazir]

We can't do that either when Bhensa, Tarek Fateh types are spewing whatever they are and conservatives are being bashed on the social media.

The word 'restraint' is lost.



Bhensa etc plus those here who are trigger happy labelling all conservatives as extremists. Anyone with an extreme rigid mindset unwilling to accept other's view.

Alt-left, then.

 

[Jugger]

Blasphemy law will go down, it will be abolished just like witch trials, sati, cast discrimination, slavery etc... Just a matter of time.

 

[Verve]

I absolutely get your point. I hate Tarek Fateh too. But while I don't like the attitude of the extremes of both sides, I really believe that the two laws need to go.

Finally, someone gets it

Discussion of law when the time is right, sure. If you understand the difference between Ulema Su and Ulema Haq, then you will agree that we need Ulema Su out of driving seat as well.

 

[Vazir]

Its funny. I've said it more than once that I want the two blasphemy laws repealed, and nobody called me a Zionist yet. Odd.........

 

[Divergent]

I am more interested in how you differentiate yourself from the ISIS/TTP ideology.

I just have trouble understanding anyone with the blood-lust to want to mutilate (not just kill) anyone who wants to discuss amending a law to, at the very minimum, ensure that it protects those who are wrongly accused.

Therefore, I fail to understand the mentality of the "righteous mobs" who kill blasphemy-accused (usually just framed) in the most brutal ways --- and then desecrate / mutilate the bodies further. There is no room for this in our religion or in our laws. This is why Amir Mushtaq must be condemned. This is also why the Imam of the mosque in Chitral who protected the accused is extraordinary --- if you were the Imam of the mosque, you probably would have gouged the poor fellow's eyes out and kept his severed tongue as a trophy on your bedside as proof of your most unquestionable piety.

I believe in very heightened religious tolerance because a.) frankly we are not living in a Caliphate and b.) intolerance is the seed from which extremism grows. In the final analysis, the Almighty will provide Divine Justice anyway.

Why does the thought of blasphemy rouse such violent emotions when most of the goons calling for blood are living lives that are barely in accordance with Islamic principles of justice, mercy and fairness? Ishq-e-Rasool is present in all good Muslims --- the true believers just live it out in their daily lives and not just when the local mullah tells them to go lynch someone. I've never seen these mobs do something positive, like clean the streets, help women or give shelter to innocent animals.

@Divergent1 @Azlan Haider @Verve @Vazir



Equally interesting how anyone who disagrees with a conservative-bordering-on-extremist mindset is labeled a liberal without any brainpower.

Most Pakistani liberals are pseudo-liberals who want to be exactly like the West. Many are atheist. I am neither. I believe Western policies and terrorism has caused incredible damage to the Muslim world. The US has supported extremists of various hues throughout history. The liberals fail to understand this.

The problem is that the extremists on both sides drown out all moderate voices. The only difference is that the liberal extremists generally aren't out for blood.

Conservative mindsets often lead to a heightened degree of intolerance because they generally feel that their interpretation must be the best, and it's a slippery slope to extremism from there. I have nothing but respect for people who live their lives based on the esteemed principles of our religion. What I do have a problem with is people who insist that Islam has singular interpretations and who try and enforce their preferred interpretation on others as the "absolute truth."

This comment deserves a positive from a mod or admin! Fantastically put.

 

[Vazir]

This comment deserves a positive from a mod or admin! Fantastically put.

Seconded. In fact, I'll save it although to show it when needed.

 

[EXPERIMENT]

Here is EXPERIMENT I have been part of PDF since at least 2008.
My Thoughts:
If I was in an Emperors court. And his vision for the people was cutting tongues/heads off those that disagreed.
He has lost his empire before he knows it.

In conclusion, my decision is that Aramaic religion is just another excuse for man to be stupid. Mankind is the epitome of RETARD(in context) And stupid is all inclusive.