Chinese like roaches? I again over estimated your decency. If the Chinese like roaches, then what does a Vietnamese like? The Vietnamese are a descendent of ancient Chinese.
Vietnamese people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Are you a sub-roach?
Wrong...I said 'the Chinese boys'. That means only all of you here who are members of this forum and who when confronted with questions you cannot and/or will not answer, scattered like cockroaches when the light is switched on. Another label I could attach to you boys is: Stumpies. Because that is what each of you are: Stumped -- every time any of you pretender to be an 'expert' on the Vietnam War are faced with a question you cannot answer or ignorant of a fact.
China didn't want to have any freeking business in any other countries, but just to kept itself safe. That is why there was a limited involvement of China. This has been proven again and again. China didn't have much means to prevent powerful US airforce from bombing N Vietnam, so had to tolerate that.
Utter BS.
I will outline who were the true instigators of the Vietnam War.
There are plenty who falsely believed that the US supported France's return to Indochina (Laos, Cambodia and Viet Nam) as colonialist. That is not true as evident by...
Pentagon Papers, Gravel Edition, Summary and Chapter I
I saw Halifax last week and told him quite frankly that it was perfectly true that I had, for over a year, expressed the opinion that Indo-China should not go back to France but that it should be administered by an international trusteeship. France has had the country-thirty million inhabitants for nearly one hundred years, and the people are worse off than they were at the beginning.
As a matter of interest, I am wholeheartedly supported in this view by Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek and by Marshal Stalin. I see no reason to play in with the British Foreign Office in this matter. The only reason they seem to oppose it is that they fear the effect it would have on their own possessions and those of the Dutch. They have never liked the idea of trusteeship because it is, in some instances, aimed at future independence. This is true in the case of Indo-China.
Each case must, of course, stand on its own feet, but the case of IndoChina is perfectly clear. France has milked it for one hundred years. The people of Indo-China are entitled to something better than that.
Roosevelt died during WW II and the war's necessities pushed the idea into the background, but the American intention for Indochina is clear: Independence. Truman had no reason to deviate.
When the war was over and Imperial Japan surrendered, the order went out to Japanese garrisons that they
NOT lay down their arms but to remain in authority until a competent Allied power could assume authority. That practice was logical, acceptable, and has historical precedents. In the event that France arrived in the region, France's history as past colonial master would be distasteful but bearable as long as Japanese troops could be relieved so they could complete their surrender. This is the true reason why the US supported France's return to Indochina,
NOT as colonialist but to take control from a defeated foe and to maintain order.
Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh were already competing with other Vietnamese nationalists as to who would represent Viet Nam at the negotiation table to officially decide Indochina's fate and how to orderly proceed from being someone else's property to being free. The Viet Minh never had popular support among the citizenry. Some support of course existed and much of that was due to Ho's reputation as he worked with the American OSS during the war. But Ho was not the only one who had some clout with the Allies. Ho knew he and the Viet Minh would lose in any referendum as to who would represent Viet Nam at the post war resolution talks.
Enter greedy France...
Ho?Sainteny agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The HoSainteny agreement was an agreement made March 6, 1946 between Ho Chi Minh, President of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, and Jean Sainteny, Special Envoy of France. It recognized Vietnam as a "Free State" within the French Union, and permitted France to continue stationing troops in North Vietnam until 1951.
Notice the date and note how close that is since the day of official end of WW II.
Chinese troops from Chiang Kai-shek arrived in Viet Nam before France, who by that time was desperately looking for any reason to set foot back into Indochina. Nationalist Chinese control above the 16th parallel while Britain was the authority below the 16th parallel. So when Ho approached Sainteny with the proposal that Viet Nam be returned to French rule, with the Viet Minh as France supported governing authority, France jumped at the chance, pointing out Ho Chi Minh and his association with the US during the war as endorsement, what else could the US do but to quietly go along? The Viet Minh and France began killing off other Vietnamese nationalists. Those who survived fled to the southern half where British authority sheltered them and recorded what happened. Then once the Viet Minh established themselves as authority over highly populated area of northern Viet Nam, Ho started his 'independence' war against France. By this time, Mao and his communists already established themselves as rulers of China and responded to Ho's call for assistance. The final and famous battle of Dien Bien Phu in 1954 cemented the two communist allies.
So in order of appearance and importance as to how the Vietnam War started and who is to blame:
- Ho Chi Minh
- France
- China
So please spare everyone the lie that China wanted nothing to do with Viet Nam. China wanted a communist ally and buffer before the US got involved in Viet Nam. Once France's military defeat in northern Viet Nam was clear, the US under the intention of containing communism, had no choice but to support France to try to gain control south of the 16th parallel. The rest, as they say, is history.
Communist propaganda? Id rather say CIAs imperialist propaganda:
It is never a surprise at all the high school dropout knows nothing about anything called history.
Better you return to high school and refurbish your pale knowledge.
The date for your declassified CIA document was 1965.
Here is what happened back then that the CIA did not know but today we do know...
Between 1962 and 1965, there were several meetings between NVN and China on the degree of China's military involvement in the Vietnam War. In May 1963, Liu Shaoqi told Ho Chi Minh that while Ho could count on China for support, such support would be that of a 'strategic rear', whatever that meant, and that China's support would be limited, whatever 'limited' mean would be up to China. There was also the on-going Sino-Soviet split at the same time and some PLA generals worried that there could be war between the Soviet Union and China. Mao could not ignore this potentiality and despite his assurance to Ho in Apr 1965 that China would escalate involvement to match America's, two crucial events made China backed off that promise.
The first crucial event was Ho's insistent on neutrality regarding the Sino-Soviet split. Mao knew that members of the NVN's Politburo were advocating that Ho should make overtures to the Soviets.
The second crucial event was after Mao and Ho negotiated some degree of Chinese military involvement where Chinese 'advisors' would build roads and assorted infrastructures and provide anti-aircraft direct support, meaning it would Chinese gunners who would be doing the shooting. The NVN's Politburo was overwhelming opposed to any Chinese military activities that would involve weapons controls. The Viet Minh was willing to put up with Chinese 'advisors' during the fight against France, but not to the degree that there would be active Chinese combat engineers battalions on Vietnamese soil. Mao conceded that North Vietnamese pilots could launch and retreat to Chinese air bases to protect them from American fighters.
Upon arrival in NVN, there were tensions between the two armies. The Chinese were better equipped and armed so there were many instances of theft by the inferior NVN troops. In return, the Chinese troops became abusive and that raised the memories of many who remembered how Chinese troops behaved towards Vietnamese peasants during the disastrous land reforms of the 1950s. Ho wanted the US to know that NVN could wield an effective air defense and that it was with Chinese help. He ordered their use at US bombers before the Chinese engineers could secure and shelter their guns. The result was that when the Americans responded, there were both high Chinese and North Vietnamese casualties as well as much destruction of valuable anti-aircraft batteries of all types.
After this disaster and Ho's ambivalence towards China regarding the Sino-Soviet split, China no longer wanted to involve China in any direct confrontation with the US military even if the SVN/US alliance cross the 17th parallel. China will continue to provide arms, training, and rear support, but not in direct combat actions. China gambled correctly that the SVN/US alliance was not interested in unification but partition and that made rhetorics credible.
So you Chinese boys go right ahead and delude yourselves that China's tough talk deterred the US from crossing north. The facts said otherwise a looooooooooonnnnnngggg time ago...
Of course Vietnam war is an injustice war. Are you happy with Agent Orange spreading in your home country? How do you justify the use of it? Have a look at the pictures of the affected people
Agent Orange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I don't even want to post them here due to the
violent visual impacts. Perhaps you yourself is a victim of Agent Orange with deformed brain. Go and have a check out with your doctor.
So how was it a 'just war' for China's involvement? What you said above is flawed implementation of a tool or a tactic. But an 'injustice' mean there is a greater harm against the Vietnamese people as a whole that only China could remedy.
Looks like it is
YOU who is the ignorant high school dropout here. You cannot even fathom the idea that what was pronounced as truth back in 1965 could be revealed as inadequate or even false by modern scholarship.
Here are the basic arguments as how the brainwashed Chinese boys know about the Vietnam War:
- The US 'attacked' Viet Nam
But there were two distinct political entities in Viet Nam. So which side was 'attacked'?
- The US was 'wrong' to be in Viet Nam
But how was it morally 'justified' for China and the Soviet Union?
- China helped 'liberated' Viet Nam
Liberated from what danger?
So much for 'high IQs'...
