What's new

Will be in Turkey (Istanbul) the next few days. Any travel/sightseeing advice?

Sir, Good choice! ;)

Yes, it's really nice. I'll post some pics of the view from my room once I get back.

Am off right now to eat fish at a highly recommended restaurant on Istiklal st. We spent a lot of time in Beoglu yesterday and walked down Algeria st also. Found some awesome bookshops. There's a new book by Davotaglu which is currently only available in Turkish - I think its title is roughly translated as, "Turkey's Strategic Position in the World". Can't wait for the english edition! Looked like an awesome book.

p.s. not sure if you are married with kids and/or take interest in art. Be sure to check out ''Istanbul Modern'' gallery.

The young 'uns are enjoying life and being spoiled by their grandparents. My wife and I are on our own for this trip. And not only do we love art, we are also collectors. Will inshaAllah definitely add a Turkish painting to the inventory :-)

and DO please go to Cezayir Sokak (Algeria Street). Probably one of my favourite places to be in Istanbul.

Done!
 
.
Were you able to visit Dolmabahçe Palace? Do go if you have time.

Ceremonial_hall_Dolmabahce_March_2008_pano2b.jpg
 
Last edited:
.
i'm sure you did brother......and yes Turkish girls are great. I remember a very dear Turkish friend of mine had once set me up on a date with a special girl who hailed from Black Sea region (she now acts on a local TV show there called Adabı Muaşeret)

that was in the beginning when I was still learning Turkish; it was so funny how despite some moments of awkward silence, we had an outstanding time. She was very warm, and wanted to learn a lot about Pakistan and life there. She taught me how to play backgammon, which is very popular in Turkiye.




very special people, these Turks.
 
.
Were you able to visit Dolmabahçe Palace? Do go if you have time.

Took the Bosphorous cruise earlier today and saw it from the outside. It was closed this morning on account of Eid. Tomorrow we are going to do the full tour inside.
 
.
Took the Bosphorous cruise earlier today and saw it from the outside. It was closed this morning on account of Eid. Tomorrow we are going to do the full tour inside.

Awesome. You will see Ataturk's room where he passed away. Very emotional.
 
. .
i assume you went to Hagia Sophia??

on my last visit there i was finally able to correctly do the ''hand twist'' thing @ the weeping colomn.....the one where you put your thumb in the hole and do a full 360 degree turn with your palm
 
.
Awesome. You will see Ataturk's room where he passed away. Very emotional.

the more one reads about Ataturk one is enthralled by him. You know, he had nation-building on his resume. But he never had a family. In fact he was quite a lonely person -- though he did know how to enjoy life and have a good time.

I remember visiting the mausoleum (Anitkabir) in Ankara. One of my favourite pictures is the one of me next to his beautiful open-top Mercedes-Benz :)
 
.
Awesome. You will see Ataturk's room where he passed away. Very emotional.

I am maxed out on the emotional front... as I mentioned previously, seeing Hazrat Ali's sword and Bibi Fatima's prayer mat was heart wrenching. These were at Top Kapi.

Also, the Military Museum was just brilliant. They have the two pronged Zulfiqar here; it is an Ottoman era recreation of the sword used by Hazrat Ali to conquer Khyber. Also, seeing the dioramas and paintings of Mehmet the Conqueror taking Istanbul, the battle axes and swords with Quranic inscriptions... it was just overpowering.

They had a mockup of the military academy where Ata Turk and his comrades were educated, complete with life-size figures. That was quite cool. I wanted to pay my respects at Ata Turk's mazaar, but I am not going to Ankara this time. I did take some pictures next to the memorial at Taksim square and said a fateha for him.
 
.
the more one reads about Ataturk one is enthralled by him. You know, he had nation-building on his resume. But he never had a family. In fact he was quite a lonely person -- though he did know how to enjoy life and have a good time.

I remember visiting the mausoleum (Anitkabir) in Ankara. One of my favourite pictures is the one of me next to his beautiful open-top Mercedes-Benz :)

I loved his quote about Raki. "What a lovely drink this is, it makes one want to be a poet"
He adopted many children and took care of them. I think in the end the family for him was the country he was building.
 
.
I am maxed out on the emotional front... as I mentioned previously, seeing Hazrat Ali's sword and Bibi Fatima's prayer mat was heart wrenching. These were at Top Kapi.

Also, the Military Museum was just brilliant. They have the two pronged Zulfiqar here; it is an Ottoman era recreation of the sword used by Hazrat Ali to conquer Khyber. Also, seeing the dioramas and paintings of Mehmet the Conqueror taking Istanbul, the battle axes and swords with Quranic inscriptions... it was just overpowering.

They had a mockup of the military academy where Ata Turk and his comrades were educated, complete with life-size figures. That was quite cool. I wanted to pay my respects at Ata Turk's mazaar, but I am not going to Ankara this time. I did take some pictures next to the memorial at Taksim square and said a fateha for him.

I remember vividly when i brought my mother and aunt when they were visiting me, they were crying silently.....those are very emotional and important places --especially for Muslim peoples!

you should consider making a blog about your travels.....More Pakistanis should visit Turkiye instead of wasting time in London and Dubai. (I have my biases though) :)


Did you get a chance to visit Ortakoy or Bebek area? Those tend to be extremely elitist, posh areas where all the famous nightclubs and bars are. Ortakoy is famous for something called ''kumpir''

i dont know if you are still in Istanbul, but if you are -- take a cab to Ortakoy just for the sake of eating Kumpir. I wont tell you what it is, but just go get it anyways without arguing....


from your hotel to Ortakoy only 10-12 minutes depending on traffic



and to get a nice ''european'' taste of Istanbul, do walk around the streets of Cihangir (Jahangir). There are so many hidden treasures there, many small cafes, bars, and restaurants not to mention art galleries and crafts shops. If you went to Algerian Street, then you were basically only 3 minutes walk from Cihangir.

make sure you have good walking shoes though, some of those streets are very hilly --believe me, i'd know. Cihangir is where I was living.


:)
 
. .
As promised, here's part of the view from my room:

DSC_4138.jpg


And I took this at the Grand Bazar. Notice the flag bang in the center. And please also note the flags which are absent :-)

DSC_3934.jpg

Nice observation on the flags :lol:

What are your views of Turkish culture in Istanbul with say a large city in Pakistan. Are there many similarities and what would you say are differences ?
 
.
The Blue Mosque, The Bosphorus Cruise , The Topkapi Palace. And if you want to buy some Crystal Decorations or Glass Crockery go to Pasha Bacha's outlet.
 
.
we are both family-oriented people --we place strong emphasis on hospitality to our guests....but we are also emotional and hot-tempered people.

during time peace, we love.....during time of war, we are barbarians (in absence of better words).... :)

I think the differences are our temperment and mentality on some issues. Pakistanis are very fatalistic people --i'm sure some Turks are. We surrender our fate purely to God; whereas there is a more European approach among Turks who believe they have a wider locus of control over external circumstances.

Pakistanis are ''fashionably'' late people. Turks are always on time, or ten minutes ahead of schedule.

Many other things I could point out; but there are more similarities than differences --and it goes beyond just religion I think



here is a nice article written a few years back



Many statesmen believe in that the states have no friends, but interests. That’s why the number of states which have ‘special relations’ is few. US-UK relations or US-Israel relations are exceptional. Even in these examples we see that the national interests are more important than the emotional dimension.

In this framework Turkish-Pakistani relations have always been special. In spite of the geographical distance and the clear economic and social differences between two countries, Turks have always loved the Pakistanis.

Although the majority of Pakistanis are not Turkish origin people, they have always been called ‘brothers’ in Turkey. Brotherhood between these two countries was something emerged before the family ties between the Turkish Republics and Turkey to be bounded. Like many Turkish people I did not question Pakistan’s friendship, yet one of the answers I was trying to find prior to my 8 day-trip to Pakistan was the reasons of this profound sympathy.

On the Pakistan way, may be first time in my life I wondered why do Turks like Pakistan? I thought whether the Turkish-Pakistani love is delusion or not.



***


I will share my Pakistan notes in the near future, but in this essay I would rather try to understand the main roots of our Pakistan sympathy:



The things I saw in my 2000 km journey, including 5 cities from Karachi-southern coast- to Burban-the very north of Pakistan-, was totally devastating for me and the other members of the Turkish delegation. It is clear that Pakistan has been passing through difficult times in terms of politics, security and economics.

My soul and heart were hurt by the level of difficulties these beautiful people face. Besides all that tragedy, I and other members of the Turkish delegation found out something that every visitor to Pakistan experience: Pakistan is certainly the country that likes Turkey the most in this world.


***

In one of the meetings the USAK in Ankara, the Pakistani Ambassador Seyid Iftikhar Hüseyin Shah had answered very positively all our questions and declared Pakistan’s support for any political problem Turkey faces: For example when we talked about Cyprus issue, terror or any other important topics, all of which he replied: “Pakistan would support you”.

An ambassador’s response this fast and impulsive was quite shocking for USAK researchers if it was not suspicious.

After seeing the shocked expressions in our faces, Ambassador Shah smiled and looked into our eyes saying “Pakistan would always support Turkey, because your country is Turkey, and you are Turkish.”

We simply understand that Turkey has Pakistan’s political support in any issue with no hesitation. Such support and ties were naturally unexpected for Anglo-Saxon type educated people like us and it was a surprise for us when we are talking about a so ‘alone country’ in Europe, Turkey.

What is more impressive was that we heard the same replies throughout Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore. All Pakistanis told us that “Pakistan would always support Turkey just because you are Turkey, and you are Turkish”



***

The first thing I discovered while I was questioning the reasons of this exceptional “chum” relationship was how lonely Pakistan was. Being stuck between India, Iran, Afghanistan and China, Pakistan suffers a great loneliness.

All of Pakistan’s neighbors are either too problematic, like Afghanistan, or too distant from adopting a close relationship on equal terms with the country. Take India for example, after the British left, it started drawing a profile of “Big Brother” of the region. Iran, where there are still strong signs of a pursuit for the Persian Empire (or expansion of the Islamist regime?), is no different. On the contrary, Iran’s ‘intolerable’ conceit and desire for ideological propagation, makes it almost impossible to create a strong relationship.

Afghanistan, probably the most similar country to Pakistan in terms of geography and demography, is now like a fireball and is ready to porch. Inside all the neighbors of Pakistan, the most loved one is certainly China. Because of its support to Pakistan in their relations with India, Chinese relations are special for Pakistanis.

The “real China” is, however, is the very east of the country. Besides, it is fairly hard to imagine a Chinese – Pakistani closeness, compared to a one with Turkey. Moreover the relations with the West is also problematic.

Although Islamabad Government has always been very helpful for the Western policies against terrorism, Pakistan cannot find a similar support and empathy in the West.

Turkey is certainly the most similar country to Pakistan in the world with its ‘special loneliness’. Although it is at the heart of the global issues and has quite strong ties with the East and the West, Turkey is not part of any world in reality. It is sui generis and Turkish people still feel aloneness in the West and in the region like Pakistan.

It can be said that this shared aloneness is one of the factors in Turkish – Pakistani friendship. Turks can understand the Pakistanis before the double standards of the great powers.

Besides their common loneliness, the historical caliphate is believed to be another reason of the Turkish sympathy in Pakistan. The Ottoman sultans were considered the head of the all Muslims in many countries.

Thanks to the Abdulhamid II’s efforts the influence of the Turkish caliphates’ increased dramatically in the Indian subcontinent. The Turks were considered as a balancing power against the occupying British in India.

Therefore Indian Muslims felt themselves very close, even engaged, to the Anatolian Muslim Turks. More strangely, not only the Muslims, but also all other oppressed societies in India felt themselves close to the Ottoman Empire in these years.

Including Gandhi, the Indians were all saddened by the declaration of secular Turkish Republic and the cassation of the caliphate chair. They were not against secularism but the evaporation of the Caliphate as they saw the Caliphate as an influential tool against imperialism in India.

Despite their sadness, both Hindus and Muslim Indians respected Turkish people’s decision, continued to see citizens of the Modern Turkish Republic as the sons of the Ottomans.

Another factor of the sympathy was unfortunately the turmoil both Turkey and Pakistan experienced, particularly the military coups. The 12 September 1980 Coup’s General President Kenan Evren for instance was not welcomed at all in the Western European countries.

He could only visit or more accurately only welcomed by Bulgaria, Romania, soma Arab countries and Pakistan. The same thing was, of course, true for Pakistan. Turkish officials have always welcomed Pakistanis no matter what their political conditions were.

Turkey’s strong support for Pakistan in the Kashmir case has also been a major contributor to the relationship. In spite of the problems with India, Turkey kept to its support and said: “… just because you are Pakistan.”

Although it is a debatable issue, another important point that needs to be mentioned here is the ethnic roots of Pakistan community. The country is clearly affected by the neighboring countries it stuck between. Fingerprints can be seen in its language, religion, culture and in many other areas. Its foods and music are, along with a lot other characteristics, is a synthesis.

However, the Turkish signs can only be seen when looked closer. Even physical similarities can be observed. Turkish clans entering the inside of the Indian subcontinent have affected the region so deeply that its fingerprints inherited to the Pakistan of today. In other words, our ties with Pakistanis are not just mental, but we might also, with the help of modern science, observe different aspects of the ties by looking at the genes of our Pakistani brothers.

Such a fact would certainly be shocking, but not very unexpected.

More recently, Turkey’s immediate help to Pakistan in the earthquake disaster was definitely the most major contributor to the relationship between the countries. All Pakistanis, from government officials to ordinary people, are very grateful for their brother country’s aids.

They said that Turkey was there with both volunteers and officials helping them rescuing their people in a disaster which 75.000 people died. Moreover, they told us that Turks also did not leave immediately, but helped rebuilding the devastated country.

They were so impressed from this immense help that Imam Abdullah said in a speech he made in Eidgahah Mosque: “Pakistan is Turkey and Turkey is Pakistan.”

Another recent contribution of the disaster to Turkish-Pakistani relationship is the fact that Turkish Premier, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, was the first leader to visit the country after the great disaster. Showing one more time the importance of timing in diplomacy, that his visit and speech impressed Pakistanis as much as Turkish aid did.

Even though he may be aware of the consequences of his visit, Mr. Erdogan certainly did something very important for closeness between Pakistan and Turkey.

The last visit to Pakistan made by Turkish President Abdullah Gul was also important in this context. His visit after the devastating assassination of Benazir Bhutto, which is an incident that almost put the country into a chaos, proved Turkey’s support to the country one more time.

The message President Gul gave by meeting with all leaders in the country was clear: “Pakistani leaders should stop fighting each other and maintain peace and unity in the country.”

Thanks to the efforts of Turkish ambassador Engin Soysal and his team, Turkey has continued to play a special role in bridging the opposing Pakistani groups.

It is clear that almost all Pakistani political parties trust on the Turks. That’s why Turkish diplomats or politicians can organize in a very limited time so many sensitive meetings which affect Pakistani political life.


***

As a conclusion, it seems that Turks have enough reasons to see Pakistan as a brother country. Besides, the heating environment of the “Great Middle East” also brings countries like Turkey and Pakistan, and other countries affected by the United States policies in the region.

The wrong policies of the White House force the regional powers to make more co-cooperation and Turkish-Pakistani relations is no exception.

I will continue writing on our Pakistan experiences. However, for now, I will stop here by telling people who do not believe in Turkey-Pakistan closeness that: We the Turks love Pakistanis because they are Pakistani.


Why do Turks Like Pakistan?
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom