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Wikileaks : Secret Afghanistan War logs

Complete dump available 75Meg

http://www.wikileaks.com/wiki/Afghan_War_Diary,_2004-2010

and they r doing it pretty well arent they..... every country keeps her national interests 1st, going by ur logic we are'nt doing anything different..... its a bigger game being played.. every one wants a piece of cake(Afghan), but so far from these report and cries from other countries its pretty clear that so far ISI have out played others..... :azn:

And it looks like game started in 1980's when ISI sensed the american urgency to evict soviet forces from Afghanistan and soviet reports about afghan mineral richies emerged in media. I must say afghan war was another capital venture and nothing to do with religion or jihad. Infact america has beaten up in our own game by discrediting jihad as terrorism. We are engaged in reactionary politics. Americans are enanged in strategic politics. Whatever comes out of Obama or Hillary mouth is not a result of over night brain storming but a carefully weighted and though opinion derived from atleast 2-3 years of research.
 
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I just don't see US increasing their aid to $1.5B/year if they knew Pakistan was supporting Taliban. And given the diplomatic clout they have, they surely would be making a much bigger noise about it.
 
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Here's my idea of what's happening.

There's no smoking gun, concrete evidence of ISI involvement.

If Pakistan was indeed supporting extremists, I highly doubt US would be giving us latest weapons, $1.5B/year in aid, and other assistance.

More importantly, given that they are a superpower and have immense amount of diplomatic clout and influence around the world, they'd be making a much bigger noise about it.

These leaks/ISI involvement reports serve two purposes.

1. Pressure Pakistan to go into North Waziristan.
2. Given that the US is likely to fail in Afghanistan, they want to setup a clear scapegoat whom they can point fingers at once they exit.



This is obviously my take but no one knows the ground reality.

This looks to be one big clusterfuck and it's really not clear what's going on at the ground.
 
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i just read in an indian news paper that now they have ammo to show the u.s. that pakistan is supporting the taliban :rofl:

the indians are going to beat this to death just like the so called massacre at mumbi
 
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Way too simplistic and logically incorrect reply.

Whether someone is an academic or not is irrelevant when it comes to these issues.

Secondly, just because a lot of noise is being made - which can be done if a state as powerful as the US wants to -, it doesn't make it necessarily.

The denial argument is a cheap and convenient argument. Very simplistic too, might I add. It's as good as me saying that you're in denial of Indian involvement. It doesn't mean much without clear evidence.

I am just trying to be straight forward. There are many here from Pakistan those who are debating it with great detail but are apprehensive to admit it as well.

Let me help, how it should be concluded.
Obviously Pakistan do not need certificate of 'The Bad' from anyone for its sub acute double plays. Furthermore there will be a natural communication gaps between all agencies involved for this whole effort. Therefore such revelation are common entities in this big mammoth and costlier war where Pakistan is at receiving end for most of the time.

I have said it before and will say it again that people those who are killing the messenger are not doing good. I can past many links here when at the start of WOT US military think tanks were already drafted to took this war all the way into Pakistan. I wont mind buying this only conspiracy theory that it will create pressure on Pakistan to do more. But trust me they understand all the possibilities when Pakistan will double play and they will keep quite for greater sakes.

So please dont misinform masses with all conspiracy theories, (my reason to join this debate) Please talk like switched on civalians.
 
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Now the world will forgot the death of thousands of innocent civilians in Afghanistan and will focus all its guns towards Pakistan's ISI

Out of the 92,000 documents, reports are suggesting that only 180 concern the ISI and the majority are related to operations and missions inside Afghanistan. So we better treat it like that.

I think the world is not gona treat it like that, 91820 reports has no value only 180 related to ISI they will cash to bash ISI and PAKMIL.
and it has started already..
 
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The revelations in the Afghanistan war logs threaten to fan anti-Pakistan sentiment in Kabul and could generate a negative dynamic if the information is used by Afghan political enemies against each other, insiders say.

President Hamid Karzai's administration is soon to give its first reaction to the trove of information in the Wikileaks archive, with opinion divided as to whether the leaked cache of documents will create turmoil or blow over.

On the one hand, for Kabul-based diplomats and others deeply engrossed in all things Afghanistan, while the archive was thick on details, there was little that was hugely surprising: it has long been known, for example, that the Pakistani intelligence service plays a malign role in Afghanistan.

But then, as one foreign observer working for a major international organisation put it, the Wikileaks saga could become a "game changer" if the information is used by Afghan political enemies against each other.

That is almost certain to happen at a time when Karzai, who is said to have lost confidence in the Nato campaign, is courting controversy by reaching out to insurgent leaders and softening his line on Pakistan.

Haroun Mir, a political analyst, Karzai critic and parliamentary candidate, predicted that the intelligence documents alleging skulduggery by the Inter-Service Intelligence agency (ISI) will make it harder for the coalition to tolerate anything less than full Pakistani support in fighting the Taliban.

"For us this is no secret – it is something we have been talking about since day one. But now there is no secret left. These are no longer allegations, these are facts," he said.

"It is up to the US and the UK to do something about it. Every day we see Nato soldiers die and Pakistan is very clearly linked to these killings, but there is no reaction. The west just rewards bad behaviour by the Pakistanis."

He said that when the details are re-reported by Afghan media, they will fuel popular conspiracy theories that the western powers are not serious about beating the Taliban and instead are looking for excuses for the permanent occupation of Afghanistan.

Any anti-Pakistani uproar will probably disrupt the detente between Karzai and Pakistan's leadership.

For months now Karzai has pointedly dropped his old anti-Pakistani rhetoric, and has held a series of meetings with Pakistan's army chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and Ahmad Shuja Pasha, the head of the ISI – the very organisation cited in the documents for being part of an alleged plot to assassinate the Afghan president.

Mir said: "We have all been trying to warn President Karzai that you cannot trust the Pakistanis. They are not co-operating with the US and the UK, so why should they co-operate with Afghanistan?"

Mujahid Kakar, head of news for the private television station Tolo, said his team was still working on stories for bulletins later in the day, contacting MPs, opposition leaders and waiting for a press conference by Karzai's spokesman later in the afternoon.

"We have to wait for the government's reaction," he said. "But it will definitely have a bad impact on the mindset of the people."

Afghan war logs: will Kabul turn on Pakistan? | World news | guardian.co.uk
 
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read post #83 and #92 indians. you indians after reading that this are going to continue to be belligerent? really you people have no intelligence nor any sence of logic but to yell at the top of your lungs like ignoramuses.
 
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I still refuse to believe that this leak is not a deliberate one, every newspaper, Western & Indian are jumping up & down with ISI in the line of fire & Indians are like 'See we told ya', This one is a deliberate leak

see we told ya:partay:

dont take it to ur heart .........................we will never come to know what our intellegence agencies are doing
 
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dont take it to ur heart .........................we will never come to know what our intellegence agencies are doing

At the moment it appears like, in their own admission, that US intelligence agencies were inundated with BS and imaginary reports, often sourced from the NDS, trying to implicate the ISI (not that dissimilar to the fabricated reports on Iraqi WMD's I suppose).

Note how some of the more respected newspapers such as the Guardian and to some extent the NYT took care to point out the flawed nature of these reports, and in some cases even quoted US military officials strongly criticizing the reports.
 
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At the moment it appears like, in their own admission, that US intelligence agencies were inundated with BS and imaginary reports, often sourced from the NDS, trying to implicate the ISI (not that dissimilar to the fabricated reports on Iraqi WMD's I suppose).

Note how some of the more respected newspapers such as the Guardian and to some extent the NYT took care to point out the flawed nature of these reports, and in some cases even quoted US military officials strongly criticizing the reports.

Its not only America or Pakistan's cat and mouse game. There are many others involved. At the end of the day it will hurt the credibility of both. American may give endless concessions to pakistan but for the next time it will become harder for USA to find friends.
 
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Its not only America or Pakistan's cat and mouse game. There are many others involved. At the end of the day it will hurt the credibility of both. American may give endless concessions to pakistan but for the next time it will become harder for USA to find friends.

What does that have to do with the fact that most of these reports, on the ISI-Taliban link, are BS?
 
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LONDON – WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange says there's "no reason" to doubt the reliability of 91,000 pages of leaked U.S. documents relating to the war in Afghanistan.

Speaking Monday in London after the release of the classified U.S. military records, Assange said the veracity of the material isn't in doubt. But he says "just like dealing with any source you should exercise some common sense. That doesn't mean you should close your eyes."

On Sunday, the online whistle-blower WikiLeaks posted some 90,000 leaked U.S. military records of six years of the war, including unreported incidents of Afghan civilian killings and covert operations against Taliban figures.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Shocking in scope if not in content, the leak of 91,000 classified U.S. records on the Afghanistan war by the whistle-blower website Wikileaks.org is one of the largest unauthorized disclosures in military history.

The documents cover much of what the public already knows about the troubled nine-year conflict: U.S. spec-ops forces have targeted militants without trial, Afghans have been killed by accident, and U.S. officials have been infuriated by alleged Pakistani intelligence cooperation with the very insurgent groups bent on killing Americans.

WikiLeaks posted the documents Sunday. The New York Times, London's Guardian newspaper and the German weekly Der Spiegel were given early access to the records.

The release was instantly condemned by U.S. and Pakistani officials as both potentially harmful and irrelevant.

White House national security adviser Gen. Jim Jones said the release "put the lives of Americans and our partners at risk." In a statement, he then took pains to point out that the documents describe a period from January 2004 to December 2009, mostly during the administration of President George W. Bush. And, Jones added, before President Obama announced a new strategy.

Pakistan's Ambassador Husain Haqqani agreed, saying the documents "do not reflect the current on-ground realities," in which his country and Washington are "jointly endeavoring to defeat al-Qaida and its Taliban allies."

The U.S. and Pakistan assigned teams of analysts to read the records online to assess whether sources or locations were at risk.

The New York Times said the documents reveal that only a short time ago, there was far less harmony in U.S. and Pakistani exchanges.

The Times says the "raw intelligence assessments" by lower level military officers suggest that Pakistan "allows representatives of its spy service to meet directly with the Taliban in secret strategy sessions to organize networks of militant groups that fight against American soldiers in Afghanistan, and even hatch plots to assassinate Afghan leaders."

The Guardian, however, interpreted the documents differently, saying they "fail to provide a convincing smoking gun" for complicity between the Pakistan intelligence services and the Taliban.

The leaked records include detailed descriptions of raids carried out by a secretive U.S. special operations unit called Task Force 373 against what U.S. officials considered high-value insurgent and terrorist targets. Some of the raids resulted in unintended killings of Afghan civilians, according to the documentation.

During the targeting and killing of Libyan fighter Abu Laith al-Libi, described in the documents as a senior al-Qaida military commander, the death tally was reported as six enemy fighters and seven noncombatants — all children.

Task Force 373 selected its targets from 2,000 senior Taliban and al-Qaida figures posted on a "kill or capture" list, known as JPEL, the Joint Prioritized Effects List, the Guardian said.

WikiLeaks said the release Sunday "did not generally include top-secret organizations," and that it had "delayed the release of some 15,000 reports" as part of what it called "a harm minimization process demanded by our source," but said it would release the documents later, possibly with material redacted.

U.S. government agencies have been bracing for a deluge of thousands more classified documents since the leak of helicopter cockpit video of a 2007 firefight in Baghdad. That was blamed on a U.S. Army intelligence analyst, Spc. Bradley Manning, 22, of Potomac, Md. He was charged with releasing classified information earlier this month. Manning had bragged on line that he downloaded 260,000 classified U.S. cables and transmitted them to Wikileaks.org.

WikiLeaks says evidence of war crimes in documents - Yahoo! News
 
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We are just spending too much time debating who and how of these leaks.. Discussing whether they are true or not (specially the ones about ISI) is futile since none of us has the info or details at our disposal to make our point.

They key here I believe is the Why... Why has this come out at this time

1. Is it by USA to pressurize Pakistan or some other motive
2. Is it done by Pakistan to make US presense in Afg more damning than before
3. etc etc..

Would be interested in knowing the members' opinion on this with reasoning..

SMC has started on these lines.. WOuld be great if he can expand on the same
 
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Afghan says it's 'shocked' by leaked U.S. documents


(CNN) -- The Afghan government said Monday it was "shocked" as it sifted through tens of thousands of leaked U.S. military and diplomatic reports on the war in Afghanistan that a whistleblower website posted a day earlier.
"The Afghan government is shocked with the report that has opened the reality of the Afghan war," said Siamak Herawi, a government spokesman.
WikiLeaks.org -- a whistleblower website -- published on Sunday what it says are more than 90,000 United States military and diplomatic reports about Afghanistan filed between 2004 and January of this year.
The first-hand accounts are the military's own raw data on the war, including numbers killed, casualties, threat reports and the like, according to Julian Assange, the founder of the website.
"It is the total history of the Afghan war from 2004 to 2010, with some important exceptions -- U.S. Special Forces, CIA activity, and most of the activity of other non-U.S. groups," Assange said.
CNN has not independently confirmed the authenticity of the documents. The Department of Defense will not comment on them until the Pentagon has had a chance to look at them, a Defense official told CNN.
"What you have here is you have a variety of reports of different types," said New York Times reporter Chris Chivers. "Many of them are simple incident reports. The military describing ... on the ground what happened. Incident by incident."
The New York Times reported Sunday that military field documents included in the release suggest that Pakistan, an ally of the United States in the war against terror, has been running something of a "double game," allowing "representatives of its spy service to meet directly with the Taliban in secret strategy sessions to organize networks of militant groups that fight against American soldiers in Afghanistan, and even hatch plots to assassinate Afghan leaders."
Herawi charged that Washington needed to deal with Pakistani intelligence, known as the ISI.
"There should be serious action taken against the ISI, who has a direct connection with the terrorists," he said. "These reports show that the U.S. was already aware of the ISI connection with the al Qaeda terrorist network. The United States is overdue on the ISI issue and now the United States should answer."
But Gen. Hamid Gul, the former head of Pakistan's intelligence service and who is mentioned numerous times in the Wikileaks reports, called the accusations lies.
"These reports are absolutely and utterly false," Gul said Monday. "I think they [United States] are failing and they're looking for scapegoats."
Husain Haqqani, Pakistan's ambassador to the United States, issued a statement Sunday saying the reports "do not reflect the current onground realities."
Rather, they "reflect nothing more than single source comments and rumors, which abound on both sides of the Pakistan-Afghanistan border and are often proved wrong after deeper examination," Haqqani's statement said.
"Pakistan's government under the democratically elected leadership of President [Asif Ali] Zardari and Prime Minister [Yousuf Raza] Gilani is following a clearly laid out strategy of fighting and marginalizing terrorists and our military and intelligence services are effectively executing that policy," the statement said.
National Security Adviser Gen. James Jones issued a statement Sunday calling the documents' release "irresponsible."
"The United States strongly condemns the disclosure of classified information by individuals and organizations which could put the lives of Americans and our partners at risk, and threaten our national security," the statement said.
"These irresponsible leaks will not impact our ongoing commitment to deepen our partnerships with Afghanistan and Pakistan; to defeat our common enemies; and to support the aspirations of the Afghan and Pakistani people," the statement said.
Assange declined to tell CNN where he got the documents. Jones' statement said the website made "no effort" to contact the Obama administration about the documents.
"The United States government learned from news organizations that these documents would be posted," Jones' statement said.
Assange claims the documents reveal the "squalor" of war, uncovering how many relatively small incidents have added up to huge numbers of dead civilians.
The significance lies in "all of these people being killed in the small events that we haven't heard about that numerically eclipse the big casualty events. It's the boy killed by a shell that missed a target," he told CNN.
"What we haven't seen previously is all those individual deaths," he said. "We've seen just the number and, like Stalin said, 'One man's death is a tragedy, a million dead is a statistic.' So, we've seen the statistic."
WikiLeaks publishes anonymously submitted documents, video and other sensitive materials after vetting them, it says. It claims never to have fallen for a forgery.
Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman John Kerry, D-Massachusetts, said in a statement Sunday that the documents -- regardless of how they came to light -- "raise serious questions about the reality of America's policy toward Pakistan and Afghanistan."
Wikileaks has previously made headlines for posting controversial videos of combat in Iraq.
The site gained international attention in April when it posted a 2007 video said to show a U.S. helicopter attack in Iraq killing a dozen civilians, including two unarmed Reuters journalists.
At the time, Maj. Shawn Turner, a U.S. military spokesman, said that "all evidence available supported the conclusion by those forces that they were engaging armed insurgents and not civilians."
Pfc. Bradley Manning, 22, suspected of leaking a classified 2007 video, has been charged by the U.S. military with eight violations of the U.S. Criminal Code for transferring classified data, according to a charge sheet released by the military earlier this month.
Attempts to reach Manning's military defense attorney, Capt. Paul Bouchard, were unsuccessful Sunday. However, U.S. Army spokesman Col. Tom Collins has said Bouchard would not speak to the media about the charges.
Assange says WikiLeaks has attempted to put together a legal team to defend Manning, something it will do for any "alleged" whistleblower that runs into legal trouble because of WikiLeaks.
Assange -- a former teen hacker who launched the site in 2007 -- denies that WikiLeaks has put troops in danger.
"There certainly have been people who have lost elections as a result of material being on WikiLeaks," he said.
"There have been prosecutions because of material being on WikiLeaks. There have been legislative reforms because of material being on WikiLeaks," he said. "What has not happened is anyone being physically harmed as a result."
The website held back about 15,000 documents from Afghanistan to protect individuals who informed on the Taliban, he said.
But he said he hoped his website would be "very dangerous" to "people who want to conduct wars in an abusive way."
"This material doesn't just reveal occasional abuse by the U.S. military," he said. "Of course it has U.S. military reporting on all sort of abuses by the Taliban. ... So it does describe the abuses by both sides in this war and that's how people can understand what's really going on and if they choose to support it or not."
Assange said the organization gets material from whistle-blowers in a variety of ways -- including via postal mail -- vets it, releases it to the public and then defends itself against "the regular political or legal attack."
He said the organization rarely knows the identity of the source of the leak. "If we find out at some stage, we destroy that information as soon as possible," he said.
 
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