What's new

Wikileaks : Secret Afghanistan War logs

I feel like Leon Panetta right now with all this classified info.

Wikileaks has long been exposing the USA and leaking classified info. Their founder is on the run and will "accidently" end up in a car crash very soon i imagine. Recently they released the Iraqi massacre video by a US apache so I'm reluctant to discount them straight off the bat as they are credible and have produced the goods before, so to speak. I remember the founder saying he had 10,000 classified pieces of info before he made a run for it, I wonder if this could be some of it?

Anyhow, I want to see the raw data such as the pdf's etc and read them myself, until then i'll hold judegement.

But right now this is a bombshell of a story.
 
.
Amrullah Saleh and cronies are thankfully out now. However, there still remain the anti-Pakistan elements within the Afghan administration.

Being the devil's advocate here : Is the army's policy necessarily the right one, whatever the policy may be? Is not possible that they might have taken a wrong decision? How can we be certain that the said policy will work out in our favour in the long run i.e. there might not be any strategic gaffes and mess ups? How can we be certain that internal affairs are as tightly controlled as we are told i.e. no individual or group is working against the said policy? Is it necessary that the policy will reap benefits?
No I was not trying to say Army policy is right or wrong.What i am saying is ISI does not run it's independent policy.It does what Army says.It's just like any other corps of Army like X Corps of Pakistan Army.
 
.
No I was not trying to say Army policy is right or wrong.What i am saying is ISI does not run it's independent policy.It does what Army says.It's just like any other corps of Army like X Corps of Pakistan Army.

It's role and therefore administrative and ground tactics are obviously far different than a regular military establishment.
 
.
Being the devil's advocate here : Is the army's policy necessarily the right one, whatever the policy may be? Is not possible that they might have taken a wrong decision? How can we be certain that the said policy will work out in our favour in the long run i.e. there might not be any strategic gaffes and mess ups? How can we be certain that internal affairs are as tightly controlled as we are told i.e. no individual or group is working against the said policy? Is it necessary that the policy will reap benefits?


These are questions Americans ought to be asking themselves about their policies -- I appreciate you and your attempt to bring more questioning with regard to our positions, I'm 100% behind that effort, I would caution that we always be aware that this is first and primarliy, an American policy problem - The American as a "friend" deserves our best counsel and effort, but does not deserve risking livesof innocents to promote a policy that is inherently, at it's root and it's core, designed to ensure that Pakistan comes to some harm. Oh, wait it's about Afghanistan - yeah, right.
 
.
These are questions Americans ought to be asking themselves about their policies -- I appreciate you and your attempt to bring more questioning with regard to our positions, I'm 100% behind that effort, I would caution that we always be aware that this is first and primarliy, an American policy problem - The American as a "friend" deserves our best counsel and effort, but does not deserve risking livesof innocents to promote a policy that is inherently, at it's root and it's core, designed to ensure that Pakistan comes to some harm. Oh, wait it's about Afghanistan - yeah, right.

We should be asking the question ourselves as well, something lacking amongst the (whatever small group of) intelligentsia and the public officials who are apathetic (or clueless) about the issue and have abdicated themselves of this responsibility and left the entire thing to the military.

The Americans are here and have been here. It's no use crying over the reason they are here. They want to get out quick and we want to clear this mess as well. We have differences over what qualifies as the problem and the mess. They are not seeking to cultivate any local alliances beyond the Karzai crowd since they will not be staying here. We cannot change our neighbours and naturally seek a far more cautious policy.

We've had to bear much harm already. We need to ask ourselves what will do more harm and how our decisions will effect the time line of the withdrawl from Afghanistan, which is by no means a guarantor of peace of stability anyways.

Our priorities might be and obviously are different on many issues. However, seeking an enhanced cooperation whilst protecting our interests is something that we seem to have no objection over and should have no objection over either as our populace and country has suffered much already.
 
.
As per the reports Pakistan is supporting Afghani Taliban, and on the other end we are fighting with TTP. If these reports are true then it proves on more thing that our allegations that TTP is funded by foreign governments automatically becomes "true".
 
.
As per the reports Pakistan is supporting Afghani Taliban, and on the other end we are fighting with TTP. If these reports are true then it proves on more thing that our allegations that TTP is funded by foreign governments automatically becomes "true".
but that of course is a conspiracy theory..the western media won't high light that.There is a part of western media that is used as a front for CIA and other agencies of US Administration.Thankfully we're strong enough that there is nothing much US or their British lackeys can do in terms of military attack or anything along those lines.
 
.
but that of course is a conspiracy theory..the western media won't high light that.

That also suggests our diplomatic failure in highlighting the issue. If we are unable to highlight a problem it means one of three things:-
  1. That it is mere conjecture and unfounded
  2. That it is our own diplomatic and policy failure that has resulted in our voice not being heard
  3. That there is deliberate attempt to ignore the issue

The answer is never black or white but rather a grey area. At any point, a combination of the three factors are at work.

PS: No Zardari is the problem argument please.

There is a part of western media that is used as a front for CIA and other agencies of US Administration.Thankfully we're strong enough that there is nothing much US or their British lackeys can do in terms of military attack or anything along those lines.

Would you say that about whatever small role our media plays in the issue since we choose to rebuff all foreign allegations and our media is full of mostly unfounded allegations as well? Domestic politics is not the issue here, however our media plays quite a nasty role there as well.

What I'm hinting at is that authenticity and objectivity should be taken case by case, especially when it comes to such big issues.
 
.
They want to get out quick and we want to clear this mess as well. We have differences over what qualifies as the problem and the mess. They are not seeking to cultivate any local alliances beyond the Karzai crowd since they will not be staying here. We cannot change our neighbours and naturally seek a far more cautious policy.


I cannot agree with the contention that the American wants to leave - he doesn't - what he is seeking is a smaller footprint (see FP with regard to the smaller footprint) -- in general, the particular set of US policy makers are not seeking an end to conflict, rather they are preparing for a much larger conflict - Is it in Pakistan or any of the immediate neighbors interests to have the American military representing American interests? I would argue, it isn't, it's dangerous and it is in reality an effort to muscle into an arena in which others have built relationships based on development and mutual benefit.



We've had to bear much harm already. We need to ask ourselves what will do more harm and how our decisions will effect the time line of the withdrawl from Afghanistan, which is by no means a guarantor of peace of stability anyways
.


It's a given that instability will follow US/NATO draw down - the important question is why the US seeks to shape events such that instability will follow.

That we have bourne much harm already cannot be argued against, there is much more yet to come - and therefore the question above, why does the US not seek to shape events to bring stability? Will acting against Pakistani interests bring stability? It is now going on 10 years to mark US presence in Afghanistan, in these 10 years the US influenced it's GIRoA to develop friendly relations with Pakistan? But do note the kind of relations the very same GIRoA developed with Iran - accident? coincidence? American mischief!

Our priorities might be and obviously are different on many issues. However, seeking an enhanced cooperation whilst protecting our interests is something that we seem to have no objection over and should have no objection over either as our populace and country has suffered much already

The Us talks enhanced cooperation, but where is it? in the last 10 years how has the GIRoA behaved? Just look at the ATTA, an incredible event where one party to the agreement is actually acting asa agent of a third country insisting that a third country be a party to a bilateral agreement (something the US has been and continues to push hard for) Is it an accident that Khalqis now dominate all government even district government institutions? Is that a prescription for stability??

Don't get me wrong, the US that I remember was a force for stability and Pakistan should have the very best relations with the US - but it is clear the US has very differnt understanding of "best of relations" - the role for Pakistan is second fiddle - fair enough, but Pakistan cannot be expected to grant any other kind of role for the US either. Neither has market access nor access to capital anywhere on the table, the US relationship with Pakistan continues to be based on a single agenda, terrorism as the US defines it -It just won't sell, and this why American citizens need to become more involved in discussing the issues and making themselves more aware, they may (or not) conclude that American policy is effectively in the hands of individuals who, at least by my definition, are fanatics -- this is my first hand appraisal.
 
.
That also suggests our diplomatic failure in highlighting the issue. If we are unable to highlight a problem it means one of three things:-
  1. That it is mere conjecture and unfounded
  2. That it is our own diplomatic and policy failure that has resulted in our voice not being heard
  3. That there is deliberate attempt to ignore the issue

It's actually due to US pressure on Pakistan to not discuss the issue as it will take attention away from what US wants Pakistan to do and allow Pakistan to have more diplomatic leverage over US.
 
.
I cannot agree with the contention that the American wants to leave - he doesn't - what he is seeking is a smaller footprint (see FP with regard to the smaller footprint) -- in general, the particular set of US policy makers are not seeking an end to conflict, rather they are preparing for a much larger conflict - Is it in Pakistan or any of the immediate neighbors interests to have the American military representing American interests? I would argue, it isn't, it's dangerous and it is in reality an effort to muscle into an arena in which others have built relationships based on development and mutual benefit.

I do agree to a fairly large extent. By "leave", I meant a large troop withdrawl for a small presence is what they will surely maintain for sometime.

I won't agree with the "much larger conflict" though. It's a constantly changing world, evolving daily and that is something I do not see coming anytime soon. However, things can change pretty fast.

Their presence is not welcome but what do you propose right now?

It's a given that instability will follow US/NATO draw down - the important question is why the US seeks to shape events such that instability will follow.

The domestic pressure is too much and I guess they will leave a mess, smaller than Vietnam it may be but it will be a quick and unfulfilled withdrawl.

That we have bourne much harm already cannot be argued against, there is much more yet to come - and therefore the question above, why does the US not seek to shape events to bring stability? Will acting against Pakistani interests bring stability? It is now going on 10 years to mark US presence in Afghanistan, in these 10 years the US influenced it's GIRoA to develop friendly relations with Pakistan? But do note the kind of relations the very same GIRoA developed with Iran - accident? coincidence? American mischief!

What will bring stability? Which group will bring stability? Who can assure and how that a certain group should be relied upon? What will the selected group seek domestically? How much policy independence will it show? Is there any guarantee that it will not flip on the ambitions sought by its protectors?

The Us talks enhanced cooperation, but where is it? in the last 10 years how has the GIRoA behaved? Just look at the ATTA, an incredible event where one party to the agreement is actually acting asa agent of a third country insisting that a third country be a party to a bilateral agreement (something the US has been and continues to push hard for) Is it an accident that Khalqis now dominate all government even district government institutions? Is that a prescription for stability??

I don't think that even the Americans can control the domestic political situation as aptly as they did in the early years. The momentum of the local political scene is shaping events far more than what the US or any third party intends to do.

Don't get me wrong, the US that I remember was a force for stability and Pakistan should have the very best relations with the US - but it is clear the US has very differnt understanding of "best of relations" - the role for Pakistan is second fiddle - fair enough, but Pakistan cannot be expected to grant any other kind of role for the US either. Neither has market access nor access to capital anywhere on the table, the US relationship with Pakistan continues to be based on a single agenda, terrorism as the US defines it -It just won't sell, and this why American citizens need to become more involved in discussing the issues and making themselves more aware, they may (or not) conclude that American policy is effectively in the hands of individuals who, at least by my definition, are fanatics -- this is my first hand appraisal.

You cannot and should not perceive the world in blacks and whites. These are areas with big gaps when it comes to predicting the turn of events and seeking cooperation from forces within Afghanistan has been a challenge for them, let alone from a nation-state like ours.

The US policy is in doldrums but the problem on our side is that there are people in the policy making circles, not just the conservative population, who seem to rejoice and celebrate their problems in the region. We can, and should of course have difference of opinion and policy on a wide range of issues keeping in mind our objectives and goals. However, in the larger scheme of affairs, it is outright ridiculous to assume that an unstable Afghanistan and a confused US will be somehow beneficial for us in the region.

I cannot comment on the leanings of the policy in their policymaking circles since it seems to be a large variety of people with different opinions now than earlier when it was much more of a unified group.
 
.
Also, I'm expecting and have seen something already as if this whole leak and issue was all directed at Pakistan and the ISI. Out of the 92,000 documents, reports are suggesting that only 180 concern the ISI and the majority are related to operations and missions inside Afghanistan. So we better treat it like that.
 
.
So, the interactive map charts out all major events and will lead you to the relevant log if you click on it.

There are only a handful of major incidents reported alongside the border. The major ones concerning Pakistan I found interesting are:-

Border Flag meeting at Zhob British officer enjoys memorable day | World news | guardian.co.uk

2007 Helicopter incident Border patrol shell Pakistani helicopter | World news | guardian.co.uk

Border Tension Afghan troops threaten to attack Pakistani soldiers in dispute over flag | World news | guardian.co.uk

Militants escaping into Pakistan. US SF chase them. PA sends Mi-17s to counter the enemies Afghan troops threaten to attack Pakistani soldiers in dispute over flag | World news | guardian.co.uk

Afghan Army attacks Pakistani border troops Army shoot at Pakistani troops on border | World news | guardian.co.uk

Afghan border police fire on Pakistani border troops Border police fire on Pakistani troops | World news | guardian.co.uk

Yet again a border incident near Chaman Border patrol firefight with Pakistani troops | World news | guardian.co.uk

Outside Pakistan but a woman transporting a suicide vest claims she is not a bomber but only a transporter Afghan woman claims she is only transporting suicide vest to intended user and had no plans to explode it | World news | guardian.co.uk
 
.
Some days back a secret meeting between Siraj ud deen Haqqani,Gen ashfaq,dg ISI and Hamid karzai was held... only AL JAZERAH reported tht...
 
. .

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom