Why would people from China, the world's second-biggest economy, risk their lives to enter the UK?

[Kai Liu]

i wonder if @Viet used a fake Chinese passport when fleeing to Europe like her counterparts this time.
R.I.P.
Hope they had access to Pho in the other world.

He said he got there by plane...
Anyway, he is the lucky one. R.I.P. to those unfortunate people.

 

[AndrewJin]

He said he got there by plane...
Anyway, he is the lucky one. R.I.P. to those unfortunate people.

In the cargo plane?
Nothing shameful for that, @Viet should stand out for her peers.
It's vital for them to reflect on lived experiences and provide guidance to future potential cargo passengers.

 

[Viet]

In the cargo plane?
Nothing shameful for that, @Viet should stand out for her peers.
It's vital for them to reflect on lived experiences and provide guidance to future potential cargo passengers.

Nonsense
I arrived by a Lufthansa passenger plane.
Very convenient, good service

 

[riscol]

The cargo bay can be very comforting these days, with some electric blanket and they can survive the cold journey.

 

[Nilgiri]

Yet, I still don't see you either counter my point or his point. All I see is that you don't even seems to know what 5G is. That alone says a lot of things.

About the second part of your post, you blue ribbons are all the same. You said "UK" treat HKer subhuman? Have you live in Hong Kong by any chance to experience how the British treated us Hong Konger? If you have not even lived in Hong Kong during Colonial period, what do you know about how UK colonialize Hong Kong? I lived in Hong Kong 22 out of 24 years of my life, I was born before the colonial period end when I was 2, even I don't know how it's like to be ruled by the Britain, yet somehow, a non-Hong Konger can speak for us?

Also, why would you even drag the UK to this? Most of the current protestor are post colonial HKer with the average protester at 18/19 of age, they have not even live 1 minute under the UK rule, all they have is all their life under China rule. And they don't like it, and you blame the UK for it?

You don't get to be liked because you rule us, you don't have that as long as we are separate entity, and FACT IS, we are separate entity. Come back and talk about Hong Kong being Chinese after 2047, but before then we are different, and if you still don't know why Hong Kong people don't like you Mainland Chinese, just look at how you act and what you said to us, it is this simple. Just so you know, people don't generally fly US or UK flag when they did not rule the land directly. If they start doing that, that mean something is wrong in China end, not ours.



Well, in Hong Kong, we see these "hugely cocky" Chinese (or what we call big mouth) bring nothing to HK beside disease and instability. Everytime we hear the word China, it immediately associated with bird flu, swine flu, unsafe food processing practices, and new immigrant. Where are the Chinese when we have a global financial crisis? I don't see them giving us anything other than the aforementioned stuff, and the Mainland Chinese wanted us to quietly and obediently fall in line? And when we didn't do it, they said its our fault...….

LOL, I am not sure which kind of world would these make sense. Like my grandfather said, respect is earned not granted.

Some people just cannot tolerate a differing viewpoint.

That is how this whole mess in HK started as well.

I lived most of my best childhood years in HK from 1989 - 1998 roughly. I sure miss that HK, only cantonese+English announcement in KCR and MTR .....HK always very business oriented folks....compared to anywhere else, made things very quick and easy, no fuss living etc.

I have been back frequently, its just not the same anymore (even before these protests start). There is a tension and anger everywhere, school friends of mine (now grown up, with jobs and kids) have taken opposite sides and all that...and its stuff that HK ppl dont really wanted to get into, but they were kind of pushed into it imo.

Public property destruction +targetting businesses + violence is reprehensible...those involved in that are sullying their cause badly. They do not seem to realise that.

In end I blame British tbh. It was stupid idea to lease some extra territory for 99 years. Either buy it outright or leave it. Half half crap, just set up half half fight later.

 

[Kai Liu]

In end I blame British tbh. It was stupid idea to lease some extra territory for 99 years. Either buy it outright or leave it. Half half crap, just set up half half fight later.

You have lived in Hong Kong for 10 years?? Seems you are clueless...
Such a naive comment from you... Both Hong Kong island and Kowloon were ceded forever, only the "New Territory" had a lease of 99 years...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Nanking

But they HAD TO hand HK back to China. Matter of fact, China intentionally left Hong Kong continuing to be governed by UK and Macau by Portugal for the purpose of breaking Western blockade. A lot of materials were smuggled to the mainland through HK. Otherwise, we would have taken it back in 1949. Think about it, even india took back Goa by force, while PLA driven Americans out and occupied Seoul in Korean war..

 

[Nilgiri]

Both Hong Kong island and Kowloon were ceded forever, only the "New Territory" had a lease of 99 years...

That's what I mean. I used the word "EXTRA" territory for a reason (added to initial by lease).

When you add to something you got in perpetuity, you gotta make that in perpetuity too...or simply dont expand it given the land gonna be under 2 systems now...and thats just gonna start crap later when the time gets closer.

i.e Not have half at "in perpetuity" and rest in "99 years".

Given ROC+PRC took up mandate of honouring Qing empire agreements (as it wanted successor legitimacy)...lot more things would have simply turned out cleaner in hindsight....in that UK would just have perpetual stuff as agreed to by Qing empire. If PRC/PLA wanted to reject that successor claim in 1949 like you suggested, sure it could have done so too...and however that looked like in the end. Thats not my argument (im talking about what british did that was stupid in their leasing crap). I dont blame PRC (state) much at all in this grand scheme of things, they have played their hand and continue to play their hand pretty well all things considered with their resources at hand.

Or simply british should never have done the opium wars and all that filth against Qing Empire and taken territory by force (in parts of world that never concerned them or are related to them in any way) like a thuggish bully....they are worst kind of greedy pieces of crap back then. You dont need to tell me much more about them, their attitude or their even arguably worse colonial counterparts like the portuguese.

 

[Kai Liu]

That's what I mean. I used the word "EXTRA" territory for a reason (added to initial by lease).

When you add to something you got in perpetuity, you gotta make that in perpetuity too...or simply dont expand it given the land gonna be under 2 systems now...and thats just gonna start crap later when the time gets closer.

i.e Not have half at "in perpetuity" and rest in "99 years".

Given ROC+PRC took up mandate of honouring Qing empire agreements (as it wanted successor legitimacy)...lot more things would have simply turned out cleaner in hindsight....in that UK would just have perpetual stuff as agreed to by Qing empire. If PRC/PLA wanted to reject that successor claim in 1949 like you suggested, sure it could have done so too...and however that looked like in the end. Thats not my argument (im talking about what british did that was stupid in their leasing crap). I dont blame PRC (state) much at all in this grand scheme of things, they have played their hand and continue to play their hand pretty well all things considered with their resources at hand.

Or simply british should never have done the opium wars and all that filth against Qing Empire and taken territory by force (in parts of world that never concerned them or are related to them in any way) like a thuggish bully....they are worst kind of greedy pieces of crap back then. You dont need to tell me much more about them, their attitude or their even arguably worse colonial counterparts like the portuguese.

Leasing or cession, the end is the same. But one thing is true: all the trouble of HK (not just in HK, but similar problem worldwide) were ultimately caused by the Western colonists.

 

[AndrewJin]

The cargo bay can be very comforting these days, with some electric blanket and they can survive the cold journey.

It is said that @Viet had one such blanket during her cargo journey to Germany.

 

[kankan326]

Yet, I still don't see you either counter my point or his point. All I see is that you don't even seems to know what 5G is. That alone says a lot of things.

About the second part of your post, you blue ribbons are all the same. You said "UK" treat HKer subhuman? Have you live in Hong Kong by any chance to experience how the British treated us Hong Konger? If you have not even lived in Hong Kong during Colonial period, what do you know about how UK colonialize Hong Kong? I lived in Hong Kong 22 out of 24 years of my life, I was born before the colonial period end when I was 2, even I don't know how it's like to be ruled by the Britain, yet somehow, a non-Hong Konger can speak for us?

Also, why would you even drag the UK to this? Most of the current protestor are post colonial HKer with the average protester at 18/19 of age, they have not even live 1 minute under the UK rule, all they have is all their life under China rule. And they don't like it, and you blame the UK for it?

You don't get to be liked because you rule us, you don't have that as long as we are separate entity, and FACT IS, we are separate entity. Come back and talk about Hong Kong being Chinese after 2047, but before then we are different, and if you still don't know why Hong Kong people don't like you Mainland Chinese, just look at how you act and what you said to us, it is this simple. Just so you know, people don't generally fly US or UK flag when they did not rule the land directly. If they start doing that, that mean something is wrong in China end, not ours.

Just look at this "Viet" guy. He is from a not so free as per your standard, not so wealthy, relatively backward country. But still he did his best to defend his country. What Vietnam can offer him? Very limited I believe. He is not even living there. I'm not praising him. He is just a normal person. This is something a normal person should do. He has Vietnamese blood. Which can never change.

On the other hand, young HKers betrayed their blood to join in US side(Meanwhile all other people in the whole world except two of 5 eyes countries are sitting on the fence during the trade war) and tried so hard to bash China because China government didn't give them something they never had, even though China did so many efforts to keep HK's prosperity and HK never paid one cent tax to Chinese government(Catalonia paid too much tax to Spanish government). Are you spoiled or what?

Chinese tourists are all ove the world. They are welcomed everywhere. No other places like HK that has so many complaints. I saw too many people, no matter they are from China, Taiwan, Malysia, complained HKers are cocky in front of them. Are you abnormal or what?

All HKers did recently is not about Two Systems, it's about China's enemies. You get that? By the way, it's very easy to find information about how British treated HKers.

 

[AndrewJin]

Just look at this "Viet" guy. He is from a not so free as per your standard, not so wealthy, relatively backward country. But still he did his best to deffend his country. What Vietnam can offer him? Very limited I believe. He is not even living there. I'm not praising him. He is just a normal person. This is something a normal person should do. He has Vietnamese blood. Which can never change.

On the other hand, young HKers betrayed their blood to join in US side(Meanwhile all other people in the whole world except two of 5 eyes countries are sitting on the fence during the trade war) and tried so hard to bash China because China government didn't give them something they never had, even though China did some many efforts to keep HK's prosperity and HK never paid one cent tax to Chinese government(Catalonia paid too much tax to Spanish government). Are you spoiled or what?

Chinese tourists are all ove the world. They are welcomed everywhere. No other places like HK that has so many complaints. I saw too many people, no mattre they are from China, Taiwan, Malysia, complained HKers are cocky in front of them. Are you abnormal or what?

All HKers did recently is not about Two Systems, it's about China's enemies. You got that? By the way, it's very easy to find information about how British treated HKers.

hk land is needed, the rest can be exterminated

 

[KungFuLee]

Just look at this "Viet" guy. He is from a not so free as per your standard, not so wealthy, relatively backward country. But still he did his best to defend his country. What Vietnam can offer him? Very limited I believe. He is not even living there. I'm not praising him. He is just a normal person. This is something a normal person should do. He has Vietnamese blood. Which can never change.

On the other hand, young HKers betrayed their blood to join in US side(Meanwhile all other people in the whole world except two of 5 eyes countries are sitting on the fence during the trade war) and tried so hard to bash China because China government didn't give them something they never had, even though China did so many efforts to keep HK's prosperity and HK never paid one cent tax to Chinese government(Catalonia paid too much tax to Spanish government). Are you spoiled or what?

Chinese tourists are all ove the world. They are welcomed everywhere. No other places like HK that has so many complaints. I saw too many people, no matter they are from China, Taiwan, Malysia, complained HKers are cocky in front of them. Are you abnormal or what?

All HKers did recently is not about Two Systems, it's about China's enemies. You get that? By the way, it's very easy to find information about how British treated HKers.

You still do not understand the question at hand.

It's not about blood, it is about freedom on what people believe in. If you are an American by blood, you are still free to hate America, the same is you are full blooded British, you are free to hate the UK, in fact, quite a lot of Scots I know hated the United Kingdom, even they are a part of that kingdom.

Just because you have the "blood" form that country, that does not mean you owe them anything, you don't owe them nothing, take your example Catalonia, they were born Spanish, yet they hated the Spanish, and lol Hong Kong don't pay nothing to China? How many "Contract" went to China after turn over even tho those contract was awarded subpar? Also, how about Chinese government raid Hong Kong Foreign fund to fight the Global Financial Crisis in 2008?

Chinese tourist "welcomed" everywhere? I guess you have not heard stuff that Chinese Tourist break things, cut in line, and hackle local, well, why would you? Those information was probably banned in China by the great firewall.

You are very naïve, to a point, ignorant about the actual situation, Hong Kong is not China, we don't block everything bad from China, and in fact, many bad things we can immediately associated with China when we talk about it, just because those information were blocked in China does not mean they don't happens. And just because you don't know it happens that does not mean they don't happens. And for people like you? You are a frog living down the well, you only know what your country want you to know and nothing more, nothing less. So what's wrong for us not wanting to be you?

Some people just cannot tolerate a differing viewpoint.

That is how this whole mess in HK started as well.

I lived most of my best childhood years in HK from 1989 - 1998 roughly. I sure miss that HK, only cantonese+English announcement in KCR and MTR .....HK always very business oriented folks....compared to anywhere else, made things very quick and easy, no fuss living etc.

I have been back frequently, its just not the same anymore (even before these protests start). There is a tension and anger everywhere, school friends of mine (now grown up, with jobs and kids) have taken opposite sides and all that...and its stuff that HK ppl dont really wanted to get into, but they were kind of pushed into it imo.

Public property destruction +targetting businesses + violence is reprehensible...those involved in that are sullying their cause badly. They do not seem to realise that.

In end I blame British tbh. It was stupid idea to lease some extra territory for 99 years. Either buy it outright or leave it. Half half crap, just set up half half fight later.

Hong Kong people were divided in the issue, that's the beauty of freedom of expression, you can have people for the protest, and people against the protest all in one place, the only thing is, that is also the problem, because in China, they don't allow second opinion, all about what the party think, you don't have independent through.

Let me put one example out, several years ago, when Hong Kong demand universal voting right just like what the Basic Law laid out. The Chinese government response with an offer that Hong Kong people can have right to vote across an universal platform, however, Chinese government have the sole responsibility of choosing the candidate.

To people in Hong Kong, this is a joke, I mean, people can vote but you choose the candidate? What the hell is that? Of course we say no. To people in China, they don't see anything wrong with it, I mean, you want to vote? You get to vote, that is the reason why when we say no to this offer, all these Chinese media are going on how Hong Kong being ungrateful and stuff like that. And to use the word the other member used "Spoiled"

People were spin to accept stories as it is by the Chinese government, none of these people have any realistic grasp of the situation, yet, these people accuse us of being spoiled, being ungrateful and stuff like that.

If you ask me? It is the British fault, they should either do not give the 1 country 2 system on the table, or not give back Hong Kong to China at all. To me, it is the British who set this up to fail. We all know the Chinese government wont wait for 50 years to try and influence Hong Kong, that is a fact, and either the Brits are too stupid or too naïve to think otherwise, so either they just give Hong Kong back to China without the 1 country 2 systems in 1997 and we don't live in a dream world that this is going to change, or they don't give it back so nothing is really going to change. Both are better than the situation we have at this moment.

 

[GeraltofRivia]

Some people just cannot tolerate a differing viewpoint.

That is how this whole mess in HK started as well.

I lived most of my best childhood years in HK from 1989 - 1998 roughly. I sure miss that HK, only cantonese+English announcement in KCR and MTR .....HK always very business oriented folks....compared to anywhere else, made things very quick and easy, no fuss living etc.

I have been back frequently, its just not the same anymore (even before these protests start). There is a tension and anger everywhere, school friends of mine (now grown up, with jobs and kids) have taken opposite sides and all that...and its stuff that HK ppl dont really wanted to get into, but they were kind of pushed into it imo.

Public property destruction +targetting businesses + violence is reprehensible...those involved in that are sullying their cause badly. They do not seem to realise that.

In end I blame British tbh. It was stupid idea to lease some extra territory for 99 years. Either buy it outright or leave it. Half half crap, just set up half half fight later.

The original plan of Britain was probably that once they established a stronghold in China, they would be able to progressively extend their footprint in China. When their holding is large enough, no one would dare to ask when the lease term expires and how the land should be returned as it is not relevant any more. This was basically the same way that Britain started off in India. They started off a humble way but shallowed India slowly and progressively.

They have always insisted that all they wanted was merely a trading post in China and they didn’t position themselves as predator from the beginning. Think like them.

 

[kankan326]

You still do not understand the question at hand.

It's not about blood, it is about freedom on what people believe in. If you are an American by blood, you are still free to hate America, the same is you are full blooded British, you are free to hate the UK, in fact, quite a lot of Scots I know hated the United Kingdom, even they are a part of that kingdom.

Just because you have the "blood" form that country, that does not mean you owe them anything, you don't owe them nothing, take your example Catalonia, they were born Spanish, yet they hated the Spanish,

Do you think Scots to UK and Catalonia poeple to Spain are suitable excuses for your HK traitors? These two regions have(had) their own culture and language. They were independent countries in the history. Where is your HK culture and language? Please find another example that makes your traitors look good. Let me know if you find one.

and lol Hong Kong don't pay nothing to China? How many "Contract" went to China after turn over even tho those contract was awarded subpar? Also, how about Chinese government raid Hong Kong Foreign fund to fight the Global Financial Crisis in 2008?

Tell me more about how HK used foreign fund to help China in 2008. I hope you didn't make it up because I highly doubt that. In 2008 China had nearly 2 trillion US dollars foreign exchange reserve(see below chart). And there was no financial crisis in China. Why China needs HK's help? On the contrary, China government saved HK dollar twice(1997 and 2019)

Chinese tourist "welcomed" everywhere? I guess you have not heard stuff that Chinese Tourist break things, cut in line, and hackle local, well, why would you? Those information was probably banned in China by the great firewall.

You are very naïve, to a point, ignorant about the actual situation, Hong Kong is not China, we don't block everything bad from China, and in fact, many bad things we can immediately associated with China when we talk about it, just because those information were blocked in China does not mean they don't happens. And just because you don't know it happens that does not mean they don't happens. And for people like you? You are a frog living down the well, you only know what your country want you to know and nothing more, nothing less. So what's wrong for us not wanting to be you?

I know there were some bad behaviors among Chinese tourists. But overall they are welcomed. You are so hurried to draw a conclusion that I'm blocked from China's bad news. If I'm, I would not be here because PDF is banned in China. We can visit all websites through VPN. It's easy to get one. I can get all information that you got. Another wrong conclusion from you.

 

[KungFuLee]

The original plan of Britain was probably that once they established a stronghold in China, they would be able to progressively extend their footprint in China. When their holding is large enough, no one would dare to ask when the lease term expires and how the land should be returned as it is not relevant any more. This was basically the same way that Britain started off in India and they started off a humble way but shallowed India slowly and progressively.

They have always insisted that all they wanted was merely a trading post and they didn’t position themselves as predator from the beginning. Think like them.

The original plan for Britain is not about China, it's about Colonializing the new world, which basically uses force to have the original owner to concede land to them, that is what Colonialization is about.

If the original plan were to establish stronghold in China, they would have colonize more than just Hong Kong, they would have colonize everywhere across the Chinese seaboard. Also, Hong Kong is in the Southern Tip of China, which geared toward South East Asia, not North East Asia, which China is apart of.

Country like Britain, Portuguese, Spanish and America colonize other country for their access and also for their production. Because those country figured out if I colonize those land, I would save on tax charged by local authority, colonizer will not just go and colonize anyone unless they have some use for them. Either it is build on the existing trade route, or because of the natural resource. Like Indo China with their rubber and timber production. Malaya and Singapore for their Tin production, and so on.

British Colonize Hong Kong because of both of those reason, Hong Kong was colonized because of the trade route, which basically connecting all other South East Asia Port the British was using, but also the incense Hong Kong produce (The name Hong Kong in Chinese translation to Fragrant Port) Incense and Spice were highly sought after during the 1800s. And that is why the UK colonize Hong Kong.

The UK would not be colonizing Hong Kong just to move toward China simply because there are nothing China produced during 1800s.

Do you think Scots to UK and Catalonia poeple to Spain are suitable excuses for your HK traitors? These two regions have(had) their own culture and language. They were independent countries in the history. Where is your HK culture and language? Please find another example that makes your traitors look good. Let me know if you find one.

Tell me more about how HK used foreign fund to help China in 2008. I hope you didn't make it up because I highly doubt that. In 2008 China had nearly 2 trillion US dollars foreign exchange reserve(see below chart). And there was no financial crisis in China. Why China needs HK's help? On the contrary, China government saved HK dollar twice(1997 and 2019)

View attachment 587030

I know there were some bad behaviors among Chinese tourists. But overall they are welcomed. You are so hurried to draw a conclusion that I'm blocked from China's bad news. If I'm, I would not be here because PDF is banned in China. We can visit all websites through VPN. It's easy to get one. I can get all information that you got. Another wrong conclusion from you.

So you are saying Hong Kong have the same Culture as Mainland Chinese and/or language?

Since when did we have the same culture? We are westernized, you are not, we celebrate Christmas and Easter, you do not, and we are speaking Cantonese, Majority of Mainland Chinese spoke Mandarin. You may think it is the same, but would you understand what a Cantonese speaker says without he writing it down? Even Guangdong Cantonese and Hong Kong Cantonese are somewhat different, you are saying we speak the "SAME" language than Mainland China? We even use different script in Chinese.

In term of Scot and Catalonia, they are closer to their Country than Hong Kong is to China, at least they celebrate the same holiday, we do not.

Go to the internet, and search Soros Hedges Hong Kong Dollars, and you will see how China uses Hong Kong Foreign Fund to fight off an attempt.If China were to able to fight it off themselves, they wouldn't have touched the Hong Kong fund. And LOL Hong Kong Currency was saved by China, how? When Hong Kong Currency are pegged to the USD, or are you claiming Chinese Government print US Dollars to save Hong Kong Dollars??

Again, about PDF, you can unbanned PDF does not mean you would go to see world news on Google et al. So putting back to me and saying "Our firewall is not blocked becuase I can access PDF" is nothing but nonsense. Tell me this, do you have a daily subscription of USA Today? Or Do you check MSN or Google news or Youtube at least once a day? If you don't that mean you are selectively allowing information in. It's does not matter if you can use VPN if you are using it to your or your government advantage.