Why west countries are so vulnerable to the virus? Because you were fooled by lies made by yourself

[letsrock]

Disagree, ordinary people are irrational and selfish. Dr.Li made it worst. He causes many to flood the hospital with non-critical coronavirus and flu like symptoms when the virus wasn't identified yet. Worst still many fled Wuhan spreading the virus even further. China officials aren't some soviet apparatchik yet Dr.Li trust the public can fix it. The PUBLIC cannot fix it. Just look at the west. Western government on China is not about promoting "strong society". It's only goal is about destabilizing China through dissent, distrust, and disobedient.

Bro ..those values are there in Japan and south korea too. They did just fine. And most western countries are highly functional and do get things done. They may have got a start with colonialism or slavery that other didnt have but they do manage themselves just fine.

 

[beijingwalker]

Bro ..those values are there in Japan and south korea too. They did just fine. And most western countries are highly functional and do get things done. They may have got a start with colonialism or slavery that other didnt have but they do manage themselves just fine.

Japan and Korea both have lots of traditional Confucian elements in their governance, not totally the same as western system, same goes for Singapore, and they are small single nation states, for a massive multiracial and cultural country like China, it's a different story, unity and stability has to be top priorities, without a strong centralised government, China would be like warlords torn country she bitterly experienced before WW2, If China were a united country back then , Japan wouldn't have had a chance at all.

 

[letsrock]

Japan and Korea both have lots of traditional Confucian elements in their governance, not totally the same as western system, same goes for Singapore, and they are small single nation states, for a massive multiracial and cultural country like China, it's a different story, unity and stability has to be top priorities, without a strong centralised government, China would be like warlords torn country she bitterly experienced before WW2, If China were a united country back then , Japan wouldn't have had a chance at all.

Not contesting that. every country is different and policies must be tailor made. But even communism came from west and is a "western" value. China unified and sometimes very resolutely based on western communist principles of solidarity, brotherhood and anti-feudalism, warlordism etc. As china prospers and basic decency values go in to large sections of population then free speech instead of bringing disharmony brings value and better quality of information.

 

[beijingwalker]

Not contesting that. every country is different and policies must be tailor made. But even communism came from west and is a "western" value. China unified and sometimes very resolutely based on western communist principles of solidarity, brotherhood and anti-feudalism, warlordism etc. As china prospers and basic decency values go in to large sections of population then free speech instead of bringing disharmony brings value and better quality of information.

No one knows Chinese governance system better than we Chinese, we all learned Chinese history and ideology very well, Chinese governance system is basically the traditional governing system that has been around for thousands of year, Gaokao 高考 and national civil servant exam is just like 科举.

 

[letsrock]

No one knows Chinese governance system better than we Chinese, we all learned Chinese history and ideology very well, Chinese governance system is basically the traditional governing system that has been around for thousands of year, Gaokao 高考 is just like 科举.

well the chinese themselves say they are communist. Are you denying that ?

 

[beijingwalker]

well the chinese themselves say they are communist. Are you denying that ?

Yes, just to be legit to rule, cause Mao's party is communist party, the successors need this name to rule, how many Chinese do you think really believe in communism now in China? I know none.

 

[powastick]

Bro ..those values are there in Japan and south korea too. They did just fine. And most western countries are highly functional and do get things done. They may have got a start with colonialism or slavery that other didnt have but they do manage themselves just fine.

There are issues with Japan and South Korea, i wouldn't be too eager. And if free speech is so great US wouldn't have censor the far right and Fake News. Its hypocritical.

 

[letsrock]

Yes, just to be legit to rule, cause Mao's party is communist party, the successors need this name to rule, how many Chinese do you think really believe in communism now in China? I know none.

So you are saying china practices deception at the highest level from the very identity of its governance. You might be a chinense patriot but i dont think you are doing a good job in representing your country at its best. Your patriotism is based on ethnic or tribal identity.

There are issues with Japan and South Korea, i wouldn't be too eager. And if free speech is so great US wouldn't have censor the far right and Fake News. Its hypocritical.

There will never be a license anywhere to spread deliberate panic under free speech. But people should have the right to express their protest, present alternate ideas of governance in platforms they own or have a right to.
I am not saying you have blindly follow anyone;s advice on free speech nor you should do that at a pace dictated by a foreign power. But these are fundamentally good values or just human values.

 

[beijingwalker]

So you are saying china practices deception at the highest level from the very identity of its governance. .

Kind of yes, and every country, every government does, do you think democacies don't do that?

 

[Indos]

Yes, just to be legit to rule, cause Mao's party is communist party, the successors need this name to rule, how many Chinese do you think really believe in communism now in China? I know none.

Dude, the party system of CCP with politbiro and others are copied from USSR. China today is also controlling religion, something that is not done during Chinese dynasty rule. CCP members must also avoid religion, something that is inherited by Karl Max preaching. Not too mention about what happen during cultural revolution some decades back.

 

[powastick]

China today is also controlling religion, something that is not done during Chinese dynasty rule.

Its has been done before, sometimes it got out of control.
Yellow Turban Rebellion
White Lotus Sect
Taiping Rebellion

 

[beijingwalker]

Dude, the party system of CCP with politbiro and others are copied from USSR. China today is also controlling religion, something that is not done during Chinese dynasty rule. CCP members must also avoid religion, something that is inherited by Karl Max preaching. Not too mention about what happen during cultural revolution some decades back.

Religion is not a big issue in China anyway, polibiro is just like 上书房, it's just a different name.

 

[letsrock]

Kind of yes, and every country, every government does, do you think democacies don't do that?

I dont think so. Most well governing countries summarize their style of governance and principles underlying it in an accurate and easily verifiable way. Chinese are politically communist with CPC modelled on lenin's democratic centralism. Millions of chinese died for those principles and that is what unified china. Chinese economy is described as mix of socialism, traditional businesses like farming and free market. And thats pretty accurate too.

US describes its economy as market driven with means of production privately owned and thats accurate. Ofcourse US also espouses values such as free speech -but these are tough values and hypocrasies can be easily found.

 

[beijingwalker]

I dont think so. Most well governing countries summarize their style of governance and principles underlying it in an accurate and easily verifiable way.

In theory, yes, but in reality, US governing system is serving the rich and powerful, two party system rule out the chance for any other parties to have a real voice. only rich and well connected ones can have better chance to be elected and elections are all about money and interest groups...

Millions of chinese died for those principles and that is what unified china.

No one knows the number but those times were anormlies in the history, not a benchmark, tens of millions died in US history from colonization, racial termination, slavery and segregation..those can not be regarded as a norm of the country.

 

[Indos]

Its has been done before, sometimes it got out of control.
Yellow Turban Rebellion
White Lotus Sect
Taiping Rebellion

There are free religious freedom around China in the ancient China. It is why Islam can be spread there while in ancient European region only Christian can live there.

Rebellion is something different, they are eliminated because of their rebellion act, not because of their belief system and rituals.

East civilization that include Islamic kingdom, ancient China, Hindu/Budhist/Islam of Indonesia and others are usually practice freedom of religion since ancient period.

While religious restriction happening in China after CCP rule is more inherited from Communism that generally hate religion and see them as opium of the society. It is why Chinese who are under 18 are prohibited to practice religion. It is the measure to curb the spread of religion and has anti religion agenda. Nothing to do with ancient Chinese wisdom.

Religion is not a big issue in China anyway, polibiro is just like 上书房, it's just a different name.

It will be a big issue if they become big and challenge CCP just like what happen with Fallon Gong. Even Fallun Gong is first curbed not due to rebellion, but because its widespread follower. The opposition comes after they are suppressed by CCP

Please dont use China character to explain things in this forum to avoid further debate from non Chinese people.

Many great ideas and sytem always have roots from ancient period, it is also why parliamentary and democratic system practices are also found in ancient Indonesia, pre Islam and after Islam period in Arab world beside ancient Greek. In Afghan for example they have lorya jirga. Same thing also true for Communism that comes from Marx idea that have been practiced in ancient Jew tribes, but unlike communism under Marx theory who is also a Jew, such ancient practice was done by a highly religious Jews community.

Despite so, it still should be admitted that current Western world have big influenced on democratization process around the world in the modern world. Marx and USSR also have huge influence on the spread of communism around the world. I believe when Mao adopted single party system with has politbiro and other stuff in it, he directly adopt it from USSR regardless whether ancient China under kingdom ever used it, some thing that I highly doubt.