Why waning powers meddle in Asian affairs

[ZeEa5KPul]

Japan invaded Chinese territories endless times. You have 2,000 years to stop them, can you tell me why you failed miserably?

Why don't you stop them before they had the chance to attack Vietnam?

You joke, but it really is China's sin that it failed to industrialize early. Instead of spreading the light of civilization throughout the world, China left the field open for Western barbarians to spread their darkness and evil across the world. And one can't blame barbarians for behaving barbarously, just as one can't blame a cockroach for not being a butterfly.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Japan invaded Chinese territories endless times, burning your cities taking your women. You have 2,000 years to stop them, can you tell me why you failed miserably?

Why don't you stop them before they had the chance to attack Vietnam?

Of course you will get a knife into your silly face. Do you think I don't understand you Chinese. I know what you say before you open your mouth.

The bulk of the Japanese army was tied up in the Chinese mainland because China didn't surrender. Unlike your former colonial masters who surrendered so quickly to the Nazis. Had your country faced the true brunt of the Japanese imperial forces you would be wiped out for sport by the barbarous Japanese.

"Of course you will get a knife into your silly face."

Tough tough boy. Be good to your parents and grandparents and don't shame yourself okay?

 

[Viet]

Learn some history boy.

China still dominates the East Asian mainland and Japan is an island on the periphery. How did China fail miserably?

The Japanese archipelago and your jungle homeland without Confucian teachings and culture is just another barbarian tribe so who conquered who?

Japan had never been conquered by 5,000 years. The Japanese raided endless times China, taking your pride your woman your everything, however the only thing you did was evacuating the people deep into mainland. Don't you think it is not pathetic?

Pls don't mention culture. You probably don't know what it is.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

That is NOT true, and you know it.

There are two falsehoods here: the 'no one' and the 'anything'.

Let us take the last item -- the 'anything'.

This is not true. The military option is the option of last resort and it will be a successful one.

But if China cannot tolerate the military option and is willing to act in defense of NKR in order to maintain a geopolitical buffer, then it is logically wrong that 'no one' can do anything about NKR. If we can exercise the military option, so can China, and if China can defend NKR, then China is capable of taking over NKR to keep that geopolitical buffer.

Ultimately, the best country to 'do anything' about North Korea -- is China.

That's why I said... "the truth is that no one can do anything about North Korea, unless they want to fight them directly."

That covers the military option that you have gone over in your post.

As for China cutting off North Korea's food and energy completely, that is not possible, because it would lead to a refugee flood on China's borders. Not to mention causing millions of North Koreans to die. Not to mention millions more dead in South Korea, Japan, and parts of the US West coast (Los Angeles, etc).

 

[Viet]

The bulk of the Japanese army was tied up in the Chinese mainland because China didn't surrender. Unlike your former colonial masters who surrendered so quickly to the Nazis. Had your country faced the true brunt of the Japanese imperial forces you would be wiped out for sport by the barbarous Japanese.

"Of course you will get a knife into your silly face."

Tough tough boy. Be good to your parents and grandparents and don't shame yourself okay?

I talked of the times before WW 2. Silly boy.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

I talked of the times before WW 2. Silly boy.

Oh those times. Like when the Ming armies intervened in Korea and help destroy Hideyoshis invasion? Or Qi Jiguang destroy the Japanese pirates?

Or during the Tang dynasty when a handful of Tang troops wiped out the Japanese at baekgang?

Prior to the end of the Qing dynasty China had no difficulty fighting Japanese. That's why Japan is a tiny island and have no presence on the Asian mainland.

 

[gambit]

That's why I said... "the truth is that no one can do anything about North Korea, unless they want to fight them directly."

That covers the military option that you have gone over in your post.

As for China cutting off North Korea's food and energy completely, that is not possible, because it would lead to a refugee flood on China's borders. Not to mention causing millions of North Koreans to die. Not to mention millions more dead in South Korea, Japan, and parts of the US West coast (Los Angeles, etc).

The current NKR problem is entirely China's fault.

No matter how much you guys want to call SKR and JPN as America's slaves, NKR is more beholden to China than either SKR and JPN is to the US. The US kept both countries from becoming nuclear weapons states when both have been entirely capable of becoming nuclear weapons states on their own.

So it is wrong that 'no one' can do 'anything' about NKR. China refused to keep NKR in check, and now China is crying foul that the US and allies found we may have no choice but to resort to military measures to keep regional peace.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The current NKR problem is entirely China's fault.

No matter how much you guys want to call SKR and JPN as America's slaves, NKR is more beholden to China than either SKR and JPN is to the US. The US kept both countries from becoming nuclear weapons states when both have been entirely capable of becoming nuclear weapons states on their own.

So it is wrong that 'no one' can do 'anything' about NKR. China refused to keep NKR in check, and now China is crying foul that the US and allies found we may have no choice but to resort to military measures to keep regional peace.

If the insane Donald Un wants to use military measures against North Korea, then go ahead and do it. He's only sacrificing the lives of a few million American citizens (hopefully not more than that).

Only America can decide if that is a cost/benefit ratio worth taking. Personally I think Donald Un is just as insane as Fat Kim, no difference.

 

[Viet]

You joke, but it really is China's sin that it failed to industrialize early. Instead of spreading the light of civilization throughout the world, China left the field open for Western barbarians to spread their darkness and evil across the world. And one can't blame barbarians for behaving barbarously, just as one can't blame a cockroach for not being a butterfly.

Chinese civilization is limited to Vietnam and Korea. Ok a bit on Japan. If you bother to check India influence on Asia continent then you will realize your tinny world.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

Chinese civilization is limited to Vietnam and Korea. Ok a bit on Japan.

a bit? Japan was basically a copy/paste of Tang Dynasty

 

[jhungary]

If the insane Donald Un wants to use military measures against North Korea, then go ahead and do it. He's only sacrificing the lives of a few million American citizens (hopefully not more than that).

Only America can decide if that is a cost/benefit ratio worth taking. Personally I think Donald Un is just as insane as Fat Kim, no difference.

You fail to understand what @gambit said

The situation in North Korea now can be put entirely to the Chinese, when you got a dog, you need to reign it in, otherwise it don't just bite people who intrude your home, but some time you will get bite too. US reign in Japan and South Korea, but China let North Korea run amok, now if NK come back and bite China in the arse, it will be entirely Chinese own fault. Or you still think you can control North Korea once they have gone full nuclear, then be my guest.

On the other hand, a military solution does not mean South Korea, Japan or US needed to invade North Korea, there are several proposal to be make, one of these are nuclearized Japan and South Korea, which I don't think China will envy this position, the other one is for US to deploy more advance radar around DPRK, which will directly and indirectly spy on China and Russia too, and in the end, this will be on the Chinese, and we already see how President Moon change his mind about THAAD form against it to wanting 4 more of those. For China, this have no one else to blame but the Chinese themselves.

And finally, if Fat Kim really nuke US, it won't just be a few millions American that got kills, there would be millions Chinese if not all will be killed along with the whole of North Korea, some US Cities. US ICBM are 650 ktn + to megatons damage power, a nuke on North Korean/China border where the C&C and missile Silo were will have fall out effectively blown over to the Chinese side of the border (Tianjin is only 160 mile from North Korean Border, Beijing is only 500 mile from the border, how many people live in these two cities and how many you think will be killed by the Fall Out blown off from the border?), which mean when US nuke North Korea, they will nuke China as well, either Chinese government take it and lose a few millions Chinese along with the American, or you nuke the US and the world ends too. I don't know why anyone don't see it, but a nuke attack on American soil by ANYONE will almost certainly be the end of world scenario, if you think the US will lose a few millions people and just sit there and got nuke by the North Korean, well, be my guest too.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You fail to understand what @gambit said

The situation in North Korea now can be put entirely to the Chinese, when you got a dog, you need to reign it in, otherwise it don't just bite people who intrude your home, but some time you will get bite too. US reign in Japan and South Korea, but China let North Korea run amok, now if NK come back and bite China in the arse, it will be entirely Chinese own fault. Or you still think you can control North Korea once they have gone full nuclear, then be my guest.

On the other hand, a military solution does not mean South Korea, Japan or US needed to invade North Korea, there are several proposal to be make, one of these are nuclearized Japan and South Korea, which I don't think China will envy this position, the other one is for US to deploy more advance radar around DPRK, which will directly and indirectly spy on China and Russia too, and in the end, this will be on the Chinese, and we already see how President Moon change his mind about THAAD form against it to wanting 4 more of those. For China, this have no one else to blame but the Chinese themselves.

And finally, if Fat Kim really nuke US, it won't just be a few millions American that got kills, there would be millions Chinese if not all will be killed along with the whole of North Korea, some US Cities. US ICBM are 650 ktn + to megatons damage power, a nuke on North Korean/China border where the C&C and missile Silo were will have fall out effectively blown over to the Chinese side of the border (Tianjin is only 160 mile from North Korean Border, Beijing is only 500 mile from the border, how many people live in these two cities and how many you think will be killed by the Fall Out blown off from the border?), which mean when US nuke North Korea, they will nuke China as well, either Chinese government take it and lose a few millions Chinese along with the American, or you nuke the US and the world ends too. I don't know why anyone don't see it, but a nuke attack on American soil by ANYONE will almost certainly be the end of world scenario, if you think the US will lose a few millions people and just sit there and got nuke by the North Korean, well, be my guest too.

Then let the insane Donald Un take those "military measures", why does he care if China complains or not?

In my view, Donald Un is worse than Fat Kim by far. If he wants a nuclear war then he will find a way to trigger one.

And North Korea is not China's "dog", otherwise why would Fat Kim kill his Uncle and Brother who are (were) both pro-China.

but a nuke attack on American soil by ANYONE will almost certainly be the end of world scenario

I don't believe that at all.

If NK nukes the USA, and America nukes them back, it will be a limited exchange.

If America gets China and Russia involved, the USA won't just lose a few cities, they will lose everything. An easy choice to make.

 

[Viet]

a bit? Japan was basically a copy/paste of Tang Dynasty

Where Shintoism and Bushido come from?

Then let the insane Donald Un take those "military measures", why does he care if China complains or not?

In my view, Donald Un is worse than Fat Kim by far. If he wants a nuclear war then he will find a way to trigger one.

And North Korea is not China's "dog", otherwise why would Fat Kim kill his Uncle and Brother who are (were) both pro-China.



I don't believe that at all.

If NK nukes the USA, and America nukes them back, it will be a limited exchange.

If America gets China and Russia involved, the USA won't just lose a few cities, they will lose everything. An easy choice to make.

Unrealistic scenario. More realistic is the military buildup on the Korean Peninsula continue until one side makes the first move, either by mistake or first strike, beginning by conventional means then nuclear. As N Korea is the weaker part, I would assume the country would be the first that resorts to nuclear weapons. The US would retaliate by the same means.

It is up to China if you get into the war. Should you want to protect N Korea, you would become a target, for both conventional and nuclear weapons.

Even if not directly hit by nuclear weapons, a fallout would be catastrophic for China.

In all scenario I don't see why Russia should get involved?

Should Russia get involved we can say goodbye to the planet and the human race.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

This is a 12 yr old talking, not someone supposedly of the 'Think Tank' status.

But hey...You are just a 12 yr old...What do you care...???

Personal attacks already? How quickly you have lost the argument.

If the USA and North Korea want to fight a nuclear war with each other, that's their own choice right? What do you expect us to do about it?

In fact, America is actually worse than North Korea, since North Korea only threatened to use nukes, they never actually used them.

Fat Kim is insane yes, but nowhere close to being as crazy as Donald Un. Donald Un makes Fat Kim actually look like a normal person, and that is saying something.

 

[gambit]

Personal attacks already? How quickly you have lost the argument.

I call it as I see it.

If the USA and North Korea want to fight a nuclear war with each other, that's their own choice right? What do you expect us to do about it?

We expect China to get involved. The problem for YOU is that your China have no choice. That is what we have been saying all along. No matter how much you want to deny it. China WILL be drafted.

In fact, America is actually worse than North Korea, since North Korea only threatened to use nukes, they never actually used them.

Without context is why no one take you seriously. You should give up that 'Think Tank' label. It ain't working. In fact, you are dragging down the whole group.

Fat Kim is insane yes, but nowhere close to being as crazy as Donald Un. Donald Un makes Fat Kim actually look like a normal person, and that is saying something.

And it is meaningless.