Why the TTP is undefeatable

[TheSolution]

What is the guarantee that if Pakistan puts on that Islamic skin that you prefer, their violence will stop?
This is like giving a reason to all of their violence and accepting responsibility that the issue is with us and not with them. You can be as Islamic as you want they will still want to blow you up. What you do and how you live has nothing to do with someones hate.

Well it's a suggestion I believe will give you an edge in the narrative, obviously I'm not saying to go Afghan Taliban mode.

But their narrative is based around how Pakistan is an "anti-Islamic" or "murtad" state. As long as the vast majority of people don't believe this, then their recruitment will decrease significantly.

So all you really need to do is not to have laws which even the average Muslism person will agree as "anti-Islamic".

 

[El Sidd]

Or other Mullahs who consider traditional horrors like watta satta in line with “Islamic values”?

Some may argue the mullah to be the person who declares a halal act of nikkah as haram.

 

[TheSolution]

The way Pakistani people submit to their violence shows us how in the past forceful conversions to Islam would have happened under the threat of sword.
Sword has been replaced by suicide bombings.
Under threats of extreme violence people are willing to change which is like putting on an act out of fear of violence.
This also explains why there are so many confused Muslims here.

This doesn't even apply in this context.

Pakistan is a religiously conservative country apart from a few liberal secular pockets in the large cities. Majority of them would agree with it regardless of the existence of TTP.

The quicker everyone realises that 98% of the country is not liberal, the quicker they'll be able to solve the issue. You can't appease an extreme minority and then be shocked why you're struggling against an insurgency that the extreme majority starts to support.

 

[Olympus81]

Pakistan over the last few decades have treaded towards a conservative path.

Did the TTP attacks stop or die down? I believe there is no correlation between TTP’s extremism and Pakistan’s socio religious political scene.

The TTP are a result of failed policies in Afghanistan, failure of installation semblance of law and order in FATA, not raising the cost of TTP’s actions, being too soft, releasing their heads on some pretext or the other.

The cancer TTP and Taliban export in terms of religious extremism is eating Pakistan from inside. No matter which spectrum of Pakistan you represent (conservative or liberal), one thing is clear, the rate at which Pakistani and its society is being indoctrinated with extremism ideology this issue will blow up in our face in a decade or two.

 

[One_Nation]

Well it's a suggestion I believe will give you an edge in the narrative, obviously I'm not saying to go Afghan Taliban mode.

But their narrative is based around how Pakistan is an "anti-Islamic" or "murtad" state. As long as the vast majority of people don't believe this, then their recruitment will decrease significantly.

So all you really need to do is not to have laws which even the average Muslism person will agree as "anti-Islamic".

There are no anti-Islamic laws in Pakistan. If jaahil people perceive something as anti-Islamic then we need to fix their jahalat rather than change the laws.

Their recruitment is not based on what Pakistani society does or what we are. Its based on their hate and narrative of victimhood due to things done by our establishment.

You care about their labels for you? They are literally tree climbing monkeys with weapons. Can there be no labels for them? How will you deal with it when they still have such labels for you after you turn more 'Islamic' for them?

Putting on a thicker Islamic skin will not make anyone happy for us and will not change our situation. It will make us even less respectful.
We already have pretty good Islamic skin but still at the bottom of the world on every moral aspect.
This is the result of changing for every passing monkey with a sword.

 

[TheSolution]

There are no anti-Islamic laws in Pakistan. If jaahil people perceive something as anti-Islamic then we need to fix their jahalat rather than change the laws.

Their recruitment is not based on what Pakistani society does or what we are. Its based on their hate and narrative of victimhood due to things done by our establishment.

You care about their labels for you? They are literally tree climbing monkeys with weapons. Can there be no labels for them? How will you deal with it when they still have such labels for you after you turn more 'Islamic' for them?

Putting on a thicker Islamic skin will not make anyone happy for us and will not change our situation. It will make us even less respectful.
We already have pretty good Islamic skin but still at the bottom of the world on every moral aspect.
This is the result of changing for every passing monkey with a sword.

We can agree to disagree. Releasing movies like Joyland and passing laws about transgenders is quite anti-Islamic from majority of people's personal perspective.

One of the main ways to tackle an insurgency is to counter their narrative effectively which stunts their recruitment rate, and lowers their morale. After that it becomes easier to crush them. Label them khawarij constantly and use military force.

If you see my previous posts I'm strictly against negotiations and I couldn't care less what TTP actually wants - but you need to consider the redline of our own population also - because they are largely Muslim - there are things they would see as strictly being against Islam regardless of what TTP thinks.

Things like Joyland is one of them. It's not about bending over to the TTP, it's about having policies that actually align with the opinion of the majority of your population.

If they strictly go against your beliefs then you essentially give power to insurgencies who seek to change these policies. (In our case TTP's Islamic policies)

 

[Menace2Society]

We can agree to disagree. Releasing movies like Joyland and passing laws about transgenders is quite anti-Islamic from majority of people's personal perspective.

One of the main ways to tackle an insurgency is to counter their narrative effectively which stunts their recruitment rate, and lowers their morale. After that it becomes easier to crush them. Label them khawarij constantly and use military force.

If you see my previous posts I'm strictly against negotiations and I couldn't care less what TTP actually wants - but you need to consider the redline of our own population also - because they are largely Muslim - there are things they would see as strictly being against Islam regardless of what TTP thinks.

Things like Joyland is one of them. It's not about bending over to the TTP, it's about having policies that actually align with the opinion of the majority of your population.

If they strictly go against your beliefs then you essentially give power to insurgencies who seek to change these policies. (In our case TTP's Islamic policies)

TTP are not Islamic, it's a ruse. They are just giving the impression to generate support. Its textbook Al Qaeda tactics. They are druggies and alcoholics and rape little boys.

It's a racist pashtun supremacist group. If the pashtun community are not going to do anything about them then Pakistan must intervene instead of tip toeing around them for what is now nearly 20 years.

 

[Sayfullah]

A secular state has no religious justification in fighting rebellions be it ethnic or religiously motivated ones. A secular state’s soldiers fight and die for their country, not Islam. A secular state is one that puts state above all including religion. If Pakistan becomes secular most of our army will leave the army because they joined to die as shaheed and go Jannah. The secularists can go join the army and die for the country. If Pakistan becomes secular there is no justification for the multiple ethnicities to even stay part of Pakistan. If Pakistan becomes secular it will sign its death certificate and nothing will be able to save it.

 

[SecularNationalist]

What a loathe of crap article.



It has nothing to do with a afghan taliban rise ,its all about the namak haram and wild uncivilized quarrelsome nature of Afghans. Previously Afghans were busy fighting Soviets and Americans now with all the free time on their hands they started fighting their neighbours because solving Afghan problems isn't their priority.
A scientist like him should rather do Afghan DNA analysis to reach a valid conclusion.

 

[TheSolution]

TTP are not Islamic, it's a ruse. They are just giving the impression to generate support. Its textbook Al Qaeda tactics. They are druggies and alcoholics and rape little boys.

It's a racist pashtun supremacist group. If the pashtun community are not going to do anything about them then Pakistan must intervene instead of tip toeing around them for what is now nearly 20 years.

And I 100% agree with this.

That's why I want to counter their narrative so we can crush down on them easily after labelling them as khawarij.

 

[Menace2Society]

A secular state has no religious justification in fighting rebellions be it ethnic or religiously motivated ones. A secular state’s soldiers fight and die for their country, not Islam. A secular state is one that puts state above all including religion. If Pakistan becomes secular most of our army will leave the army because they joined to die as shaheed and go Jannah. The secularists can go join the army and die for the country. If Pakistan becomes secular there is no justification for the multiple ethnicities to even stay part of Pakistan. If Pakistan becomes secular it will sign its death certificate and nothing will be able to save it.

That's what you think in your mind because Pakistan as a geography is meaningless for you. You think its weak and pathetic and the only thing holding it together is a religion from thousands of miles away. It's just a reflection of your lack of patriotism and respect for our civilization.

Faith is important and its a private matter for your homes. Its not supposed to be political. The concept of a nation state is inherently secular and its allowed to Pakistan consolidate its territory, organise and arm itself for the first time in its history. So its working and your notion is debunked.

A secular Pakistan will allow her to take its true form, impenetrable against 5th gen warfare and psyops. India's worst nightmare as their way in is through corrupt mullahs. India has always encouraged extremism in Pakistan along with Sharifs and Zardaris. A secular Pakistan will destroy provincialism along with their corrupt ruling elites.

 

[TheSolution]

What a loathe of crap article.



It has nothing to do with a afghan taliban rise ,its all about the namak haram and wild uncivilized quarrelsome nature of Afghans. Previously Afghans were busy fighting Soviets and Americans now with all the free time on their hands they started fighting their neighbours because solving Afghan problems isn't their priority.
A scientist like him should rather do Afghan DNA analysis to reach a valid conclusion.

Correct

 

[TheSolution]

That's what you think in your mind because Pakistan as a geography is meaningless for you. You think its weak and pathetic and the only thing holding it together is a religion from thousands of miles away. It's just a reflection of your lack of patriotism and respect for our civilization.

Faith is important and its a private matter for your homes. Its not supposed to be political. The concept of a nation state is inherently secular and its allowed to Pakistan consolidate its territory, organise and arm itself for the first time in its history. So its working and your notion is debunked.

A secular Pakistan will allow her to take its true form, impenetrable against 5th gen warfare and psyops. India's worst nightmare as their way in is through corrupt mullahs. India has always encouraged extremism in Pakistan along with Sharifs and Zardaris. A secular Pakistan will destroy provincialism along with their corrupt ruling elites.

He is essentially correct in what he is saying.

Religion is what grouped the provinces of Pakistan together as one, and mass secularisation is going to lead towards mass ethno-nationalism and therefore separatist insurgencies that will attempt to incite a civil war.

The idea of Pakistan needs to mature and historically embed itself as a powerful national identity between the people, so it is able to stand on it's own two feet without religious binding. It's the only way it can survive as a secular state. Currently it isn't strong enough yet.

Turkiye and it's Kurdish problem is the prime example here. Secular state with massive Kurdish separatist insurgency at it's borders.

 

[Menace2Society]

He is essentially correct in what he is saying.

Religion is what grouped the provinces of Pakistan together as one, and mass secularisation is going to lead towards mass ethno-nationalism and therefore separatist insurgencies that will attempt to incite a civil war.

The idea of Pakistan needs to mature and historically embed itself as a powerful national identity between the people, so it is able to stand on it's own two feet without religious binding. It's the only way it can survive as a secular state. Currently it isn't strong enough yet.

Turkiye and it's Kurdish problem is the prime example here. Secular state with massive Kurdish separatist insurgency at it's borders.

The nuclear umbrella will stop separatism. Right now its only a handful of Baloch rebels and TTP in FATA which has origins in Afghanistan. There is absolutely no way Sindh, Punjab and AJK will ever separate as they need each other and the nuclear umbrella. The core of Pakistan is secure.

If Pakistan was not nuclear and the threat of India and Afghanistan was not present then we can say this could be a possibility.

 

[TheSolution]

The nuclear umbrella will stop separatism. Right now its only a handful of Baloch rebels and TTP in FATA which has origins in Afghanistan. There is absolutely no way Sindh, Punjab and AJK will ever separate as they need each other and the nuclear umbrella. The core of Pakistan is secure.

If Pakistan was not nuclear and the threat of India and Afghanistan was not present then we can say this could be a possibility.

That's right now - in the future these small-scale insurgencies could escalate into civil war level like Bangladesh if you give them enough ammo.

We need the whole of Pakistan and every square inch of land to be secure - retaining our territorial integrity by all costs is the utmost importance.

Tackling something like that becomes difficult because nukes are simply a last minute resort and primarily used against foreign targets.

Hence why Pakistan needs to build a strong national identity in the meantime, and demographics need to become more intertwined, rather than colonies of single ethnicities.

This is the only way to curtail separatist elements and secure long-term survivability and stability. These obvious societal fault-lines are very easily exploited by hostile anti-state elements.

We need to work on refining and developing our counter-insurgency capabilities to an effective fighting force.