Why the Tejas-1A will be a lethal option for the IAF

[Akasa]

Sir What about Interest in Pesa Ibris-E

There was never Chinese interest in the Irbis-E

They are which Radar and informative links pls,

I've gathered some general info but there are more comprehensive papers out there, I'm sure.

The J-16 (and J-15S presumably) uses a radar from the 607th Institute. It features 1760 T/R modules and can track a 0.1 m^2 target from 250 km or a 1 m^2 target from 450 km:


The J-10C uses a radar from the 14th Institute, with approximately 1152 T/R modules. It might have been upgraded since then.


The J-20's AESA prototype was completed by 2009. The prototype features 1900 T/R modules and is from the 14th Institute, but it might have been upgraded since then.


The J-11D uses a newer-generation AESA radar from the 14th Institute, but details regarding the system are unknown.

I have not included any info regarding such radars aboard AEW, unmanned, or rotary-wing aircraft.

 

[knight11]

There was never Chinese interest in the Irbis-E



I've gathered some general info but there are more comprehensive papers out there, I'm sure.

The J-16 (and J-15S presumably) uses a radar from the 607th Institute. It features 1760 T/R modules and can track a 0.1 m^2 target from 250 km or a 1 m^2 target from 450 km:
View attachment 267396 View attachment 267397 View attachment 267395 View attachment 267394

The J-10C uses a radar from the 14th Institute, with approximately 1152 T/R modules. It might have been upgraded since then.
View attachment 267402 View attachment 267400 View attachment 267401

The J-20's AESA prototype was completed by 2009. The prototype features 1900 T/R modules and is from the 14th Institute, but it might have been upgraded since then.
View attachment 267404

The J-11D uses a newer-generation AESA radar from the 14th Institute, but details regarding the system are unknown.

I have not included any info regarding such radars aboard AEW, unmanned, or rotary-wing aircraft.

Thanks for you work, I'll go though it. and for IBris-E the rumour is that Chinese interest in Su-35 is for Ibris


Here is some of my contribution

 

[NKVD]

China getting lot of inputs from Russian OEM, and CAR specially Ukraine, I think they too are facing the problem of heat decipations, otherwise very less info on chinese Radar Development in public domain. I too have doubt on the chinese to field operational Aesa MMR with fire control in any of their Fighter planes Yet.

@NKVD sir, what do you say about

1. Captor -E Will operational till 2020
2. Vixen 1000E Operational
3. Vixen 500E Operational
4. Zhuk-AE Operational since 2007
5. Conversion of Bars N01, and Ibris-E by changing its antenna

@knight11 The Gripen NG test aircraft is now flying with a SELEX Galileo Raven ES-05 AESA(Vixen 1000ES) radar installed, following extensive testing with an earlier AESA prototype Which was Vixen 500E .
Its currently into Production Not Operationally Deployed Unlike above mentioned Radars

Zhuk-AE Also in Prototype Stage Russian Upgrading it Stage by Stage. Like Vixen Radars.Zhuk AE is Upgraded From FGA-29 to FGA-35 688mm antenna and 1016 T/R modules (originally planned 1064)

Currently Detection Rate is 160 Km For 3m2 Lower than what Has Publicized For Zhuk AESA which is 250 km

Rumor is it will Get into Production by 2017 Maybe at time of Super-30 Upgrade

 

[NKVD]

I've gathered some general info but there are more comprehensive papers out there, I'm sure.

The J-16 (and J-15S presumably) uses a radar from the 607th Institute. It features 1760 T/R modules and can track a 0.1 m^2 target from 250 km or a 1 m^2 target from 450 km:


The J-10C uses a radar from the 14th Institute, with approximately 1152 T/R modules. It might have been upgraded since then.


The J-20's AESA prototype was completed by 2009. The prototype features 1900 T/R modules and is from the 14th Institute, but it might have been upgraded since then.


The J-11D uses a newer-generation AESA radar from the 14th Institute, but details regarding the system are unknown.

I have not included any info regarding such radars aboard AEW, unmanned, or rotary-wing aircraft.

I Have Seen these Photoshop pictures On Many Defense Forums Many Times. It Was Many used In Chinese defense forums as posted copies of the image above which claim to cite the J-20’s AESA T/R module count at 1,856, the J-16’s at 1,760, and the J-10B at 1,200 T/R modules. It is likely the J-10B is the first Chinese fighter aircraft to feature an AESA;
J-10B units achieved initial operational capability (IOC) in October of 2014. The volume of the J-10s nose cone is not substantially different from that of the F-16 or the Israeli Lavi from which the J-10 is partially based. Therefore, if one were to assume China had reached parity with the United States in packaging technology, the 1,200 T/R module figure would be plausible but slightly high.
For comparison, the APG-80 AESA for the F-16C/D Block 60 has 1,000 T/R modules (DSB, 2001). However, it is unlikely that China has been able to reach parity with the United States in terms of packaging technology on their first generation AESA design. Neither Russia nor Israel was able to field 1,000 T/R element arrays within their first generation fighter mounted AESAs for similar nose volumes as the F-16 with the Mig-35 and Israeli F-16 respectively.

The prospect of China’s TR packaging technology being on par with US firms within a single generation of radars is even more dubious when one examines the preference for an incremental technological development within the Chinese aerospace industry. Several Chinese aviation authors have hypothesized that the J-10B serves as a “technological stepping stone” with respect to the development of the more advanced J-20. For example, Feng Cao argues the J-10B and the J-16 AESAs were likely used to test technology related to the J-20’s AESA which would be a second generation Chinese design. By virtue of the larger nose volumes in the J-16 and J-20 airframes, it is highly probable the two aircraft will feature radars with more T/R modules than the J-10B’s radar.

The J-16 utilizes the Su-27BS airframe which has room for a 0.9-1.1 meter aperture in the nose which is on par with the F-15 and F-22 in terms of volume
The 1,500 element N036 Tikhomirov NIIP AESA has a similar aperture size to the electronically scanned array (ESA) Irbis-E radar featured in the Su-35 series of fighters which shares the base Su-27 airframe. If the 1,760 T/R figure is correct it would indicate the Chinese aerospace industry has eclipsed Russian T/R module packaging technology as the N036 is arguably the most advanced Russian fighter mounted AESA. Similarly, the most advanced US fighter mounted AESAs such as the APG-77(V)2 and APG-82(V)1 contain 1,500 T/R modules*.

While the prospect of Chinese avionics firms reaching parity with US and Russian firms is more plausible within two generations of designs, the author is skeptical the 1,760 figure is correct given the unsubstantiated nature of the image and the fairly substantial 260 T/R discrepancy between the J-16 radar figure compared to the most advanced US and Russian AESA designs. Therefore, the author speculates it would be more reasonable to assume a figure between 1,200 and 1,500 TR modules for the J-16 rather than the 1,760 figure.

 

[knight11]

@knight11 The Gripen NG test aircraft is now flying with a SELEX Galileo Raven ES-05 AESA(Vixen 1000ES) radar installed, following extensive testing with an earlier AESA prototype Which was Vixen 500E .
Its currently into Production Not Operationally Deployed Unlike above mentioned Radars

Zhuk-AE Also in Prototype Stage Russian Upgrading it Stage by Stage. Like Vixen Radars.Zhuk AE is Upgraded From FGA-29 to FGA-35 688mm antenna and 1016 T/R modules (originally planned 1064)

Currently Detection Rate is 160 Km For 3m2 Lower than what Has Publicized For Zhuk AESA which is 250 km

Rumor is it will Get into Production by 2017 Maybe at time of Super-30 Upgrade

so what is KLJ-7 - Zhuk with chinese antena or elta-2032 chinese version or developed from ground ??

@NKVD And what is the ultimate target of the T/R module for Uttam Is it 1000 T/R or 800 T/R for Tejas Mk2.

 

[NKVD]

so what is KLJ-7 - Zhuk with chinese antena or elta-2032 chinese version or developed from ground ??

@NKVD And what is the ultimate target of the T/R module for Uttam Is it 1000 T/R or 800 T/R for Tejas Mk2.

Probably *Type 1473 - The maximum detection range figures listed for the Type 1473 are from the EL/M-2032 which is arguably its closest analogue with published performance data (the Israelis supplied EL/M-2032s to China in the early 1990s which was developed into the Type 1473). The tracking and engagement figures for the Type 1473 are provided by Sinodefense.

 

[NKVD]

@NKVD And what is the ultimate target of the T/R module for Uttam Is it 1000 T/R or 800 T/R for Tejas Mk2.

Approximately 184 T/R elements seen.Like early Apg series

All are Quad i.e 1 element is formed by a culmination of 4 Channel units so total elements is 184*4=736 T/R Modules ,Similar to zhuk-ae/fga-35 AESA arrangement.

With Peak Power of 3.4 kw

 

[Omega007]

Lolz .... Roflll ...... Induct then talk ....... There is a reason behind the rejection of new flying coffin aka tejas .

That's too much of an overstretch really.It's been over one and half a decade since the first technology demonstrators took to the skies and there hasn't been not a single mishap so far.

Approximately 184 T/R elements seen.Like early Apg series

All are Quad i.e 1 element is formed by a culmination of 4 Channel units so total elements is 184*4=736 T/R Modules ,Similar to zhuk-ae/fga-35 AESA arrangement.

With Peak Power of 3.4 kw

I think at 660mm nose diameter,there should be enough room in that nose of the LCA to fit a radar antenna with at least a thousand TRMs.What's your opinion on this pal??

 

[NKVD]

That's too much of an overstretch really.It's been over one and half a decade since the first technology demonstrators took to the skies and there hasn't been not a single mishap so far.



I think at 660mm nose diameter,there should be enough room in that nose of the LCA to fit a radar antenna with at least a thousand TRMs.What's your opinion on this pal??

Currently LCA have a underpowered Engine for An 1000 TRMs Radar

Mk2 is ideal aircraft,by the time Uttam will get more Matured

 

[majid mehmood]

u guys (indians)
are talking as if u are ahead chinese and in some years u will be ahead of russian
now lets come to the topic
tejas radar is actually in developing stage and is still not achieve initial range which was 50 km and might take 5 yrs to reach 80km range
ok for elta 2032 that radar is not that good as many people say
just see pics below many indians might shut thier mouth that it detects 150km for 5m2

and those indians who say elta is aesa

@MastanKhan @Horus @waz @NKVD

 

[Agent_47]

u guys (indians)
are talking as if u are ahead chinese and in some years u will be ahead of russian
now lets come to the topic
tejas radar is actually in developing stage and is still not achieve initial range which was 50 km and might take 5 yrs to reach 80km range
ok for elta 2032 that radar is not that good as many people say
just see pics below many indians might shut thier mouth that it detects 150km for 5m2

and those indians who say elta is aesa

@MastanKhan @Horus @waz @NKVD

Dude, get your shit together.

• No one said India is ahead of russia in radar, Israel is ahead of russia because they already deployed AESA or even GaN
  
• Every one acknowledged Chinese advances in AESA just asked 'How good?' because no one know s it.
  
• LCA is getting EL/M 2052 AESA not EL/M 2032.

 

[knight11]

u guys (indians)

Sir, Which Indian you are referring ?

are talking as if u are ahead chinese and in some years u will be ahead of russian

Who said this in the whole thread, and should be banned ASAP.

tejas radar is actually in developing stage and is still not achieve initial range which was 50 km and might take 5 yrs to reach 80km range

Sir, you are confused with the series of news about Tejas. Pls update from the HAL Tejas Thread
Anyway EL/M 2032 -- 50 Miles with without Quartz Radome
80 Miles with Quartz Radome

ok for elta 2032 that radar is not that good as many people say

Which people are saying that --- It has been used to upgrade F-16, Khafir
Features

• Pulse Doppler, all aspect, look-down shoot-down capabilities
• TWT coherent transmitter
• Ultra low sidelobe planar antenna
• Two axes monopulse, guard channel
• Programmable signal processor
• Full software control
• Most advanced architecture, technology and components
• Adaptability and growth potential
  • MIL 1553B interface to avionic system
  • Modular hardware configuration
  • Spare memory space and computing power

And its EL/M-2052 not EL/M-2032 which is Aesa

Check this out from the Elta original Site
http://www.iai.co.il/2013/36655-34455-en/Airborne Radars.aspx

 

[Akasa]

I Have Seen these Photoshop pictures

You're welcome to believe whatever you wish, sir.

As for your blog post (yes, it was from a blog), I'll hold my judgment until it is backed up by evidence more authoritative than that I have posted.

Thanks for you work, I'll go though it. and for IBris-E the rumour is that Chinese interest in Su-35 is for Ibris


Here is some of my contribution

Interesting find ... the range of the Type 1493 seems to be incorrect (range unknown, but the latest figures show that it is definitely greater than 150 km for detection).

As for the Su-35 rumor, it is merely a rumor; it has been on the Internet for half a decade now and thus far there is no indication that the Chinese need or are interested in the Su-35.

 

[Rangila]

Currently LCA have a underpowered Engine for An 1000 TRMs Radar

Mk2 is ideal aircraft,by the time Uttam will get more Matured

China's Lethal J-20 vs. Taiwan's F-16: Who Wins? | The National Interest

The J-20’s suite of sensors probably include a new nose-mounted active electronically scanned array AESA radar—currently thought to be under development—and an infra-red search and track (IRST) system, which would allow it to passively track and shoot down aircraft enemy planes.

Writer is Japanese.

 

[Genesis]

Sir What about Interest in Pesa Ibris-E

What about it? Russian media and Western media quoting Russian media, with some Taiwanese media in between talking about how china needs it.

If any of the submarines, fighter rumors had been true, we be flying the Su-35 already.

Why do you think China declined T-50 joint development.