Why the ethnic hate recently?

[Tamerlane]

For me, it starts and ends with changing the official language. Urdu is a fake language. It has no history and it's origins from India make us look like we belong to an Indian society.

Urdu is a language that has its roots going back to the beginning of Muslim rule in Delhi, which was the capital of Muslim India.

Amir Khusro lived around 1300 AD and wrote in Persian and Hindavi, which was a primitive local language also called Khariboli. Urdu developed under Muslim rule over the centuries and incorporates Persian, Arabic and local Hindi.

Persian was the official language but Urdu has always been the common language of Muslims of India. Later Mughal emperors also spoke Urdu. And, yes, India includes all the areas of what is now Pakistan.

All of Pakistan’s history is represented in the Urdu language. The Indian subcontinent location, Persian culture, Arabic religion, even links with Turkey. Now it also has English, representing British rule.

If Urdu didn’t exist it would have to be created.

2. Punjabi, Pashto, Kashmiri, Balochi, and Sindhi have one thing in common. The languages are branch of Farsi/Dari due to islamic and cultural reasons.

Pashto and Baluchi are Iranian languages. Punjabi, Kashmiri and Sindhi are Indian languages. Urdu is a hybrid.

It so happens, I was told by an Iranian that for them it is easier to understand and learn Urdu compared to Pashto.

 

[ThunderCat]

Urdu is more connected to us than Farsi is. Switching to Farsi would be entirely foreign and incredibly cringe. At least Urdu originated from the subcontient.

It originated in Lahore before being spread into Delhi. All the more reason for us to claim it. Although the name "urdu" definitely started in Delhi.

 

[Tamerlane]

It originated in Lahore before being spread into Delhi. All the more reason for us to claim it. Although the name "urdu" definitely started in Delhi.

It doesn’t matter. Both Lahore and Delhi were Muslim cities and they’re nearby, which means that local languages would have been the same or similar. Old British maps show Delhi in Punjab province. That’s why Urdu and Punjabi are so similar.

 

[ThunderCat]

Every problem in Pakistan, including ethnic divisions, has a solution. Sometimes people seem to think that Pakistan has unique insolvable issues. But in reality all these problems have been solved in other parts of the world before. Almost every country started off with a multiplicity of ethnicities, languages, etc. but they used scientific methods to unite their country.

It all starts with good governance. Education and development can get rid of most of Pakistan’s problems, including ethnic divisions.

A good example of Pakistan having its own unique and common culture can be seen when attending upper middle class Pakistani functions, like weddings, both in Pakistan in the West. There’s a common language and culture and it’s hard to tell who belongs to which ethnicity, and no one cares about it.

But if we carry on with military-backed looters then the country is on the verge of falling apart.

Exactly. And the science shows that all but three of our languages & ethnicities are Indo-Iranic by origin.

Baloch & Pakhtuns are Iranic. Punjabis, Sindhis & Kashmiris are Indo-Aryan. They descend from Proto-Indo-Iranic peoples of the Volga and so do their languages descend from the Proto-Indo-Iranic language spoken in the Early Bronze Age period.

These were brought to the subcontinent through centuries of steppe migration by proud warriors.

This is a great science to rely on. "Urdu" or Lashkari as previously more commonly known is also Indo-Aryan and originated in the Punjab during the medieval period. I can post sources to support this claim if you like.

It doesn’t matter. Both Lahore and Delhi were Muslim cities and they’re nearby, which means that local languages would have been the same or similar. Old British maps show Delhi in Punjab province. That’s why Urdu and Punjabi are so similar.

Wrong. "urdu" or Lashkari is not the language of Delhi while Punjabi is of Lahore.

Both languages derive from medieval Punjabi according to the late linguists Mahmoud Hafiz Shirani & professor Graham Bailey amongst others.

Both these gentleman had no contact and came to the same conclusion independently. Also remember than Hind and Punjab were ambiguous and this language went by the name Hindui as well, meaning [language] of the Indus.

“Those who ascribe the origin of Urdu to Delhi and its environs ignore the considerable chunk of 177 of earlier history of uninterrupted interaction of Persian and Punjabi. Their theory also fails to explain the existence of Urdu in the South in the form of Dakhani of a large number of Punjabi words and grammatical constructions. In view of this background, it seems that the late professor Mahmood Sherwani and Professor Zore were right in holding that urdu was born in Punjab. There is ample historical and literary evidence to support this view.”

-Prince, Poet, Lover, Builder, Muhammad Quli Qutb Shah, the Founder of Hyderabad by Narendra Luther

"In fact this mixture of locals and foreigners gave birth to the language of Urdu in Lahore that was called Lashkari Zuban (language of army) at that time."

-Lahore During the Ghaznavid Period by Khalid Kanwal

 

[Imran Khan]

Sirf Waziristan aur Loy Paktia ka masla hai. Quetta aur poora KPK PTI ko vote deta hai development ki liye.

Per killings ho rahi hain sir .even quetta main bhi halanky wo mostly pashtoon city hai

Twitter aur Tik tok pe nafrat bout pehlti hai.



It goes hand in hand.

No money = no plan.

When PMLN and PPP can openly loot then it paralyzes the country. Terrorism isn’t something to Pakistan only. Even Iraq and Libya are more developed than Pakistan despite getting invaded and carpet bombed.

Twitter per gali galoch dekhi tik tok to download hi nhi ki ajtak

 

[Edevelop]

Urdu is a language that has its roots going back to the beginning of Muslim rule in Delhi, which was the capital of Muslim India.

Amir Khusro lived around 1300 AD and wrote in Persian and Hindavi, which was a primitive local language also called Khariboli. Urdu developed under Muslim rule over the centuries and incorporates Persian, Arabic and local Hindi.

Persian was the official language but Urdu has always been the common language of Muslims of India. Later Mughal emperors also spoke Urdu. And, yes, India includes all the areas of what is now Pakistan.

All of Pakistan’s history is represented in the Urdu language. The Indian subcontinent location, Persian culture, Arabic religion, even links with Turkey. Now it also has English, representing British rule.

If Urdu didn’t exist it would have to be created.



Pashto and Baluchi are Iranian languages. Punjabi, Kashmiri and Sindhi are Indian languages. Urdu is a hybrid.

It so happens, I was told by an Iranian that for them it is easier to understand and learn Urdu compared to Pashto.

You are missing the main point. We, the Punjabis, Pashtuns, Kashmiris, Balochis, and Sindhis are not "Muslims of India". The independence of Pakistan and what it represents is denoted by our real founder, Rehmat Ali. P for Punjab A for Afghan K for Kashmir S for Sind and Tan for Baluchistan and these very regions were part of the greater Indus Valley civilization. The word "India" was coined by the British and the whole word knows wherever they colonized in the world and left, those countries were left incomplete with distorted history, identity crisis and territorial disputes with neighbouring countries.

The real history which are not found in mainstream textbooks is we were colonized by the British 100 years less than modern day country of Hindustan and reason was our people revolted against them and as well as against Mughals who on the contrary of the perception that they were pious muslims, were in fact barbaric, raping women, killing people, and looting wealth. In historical context, even their duration of rule was minuscule compared to the history of Persian empire in our region.

Let me tell you this, I speak Turkish at intermediate level and I can definitely say that even that language has Persian influence and I find our regional languages have more common words with them than say vedic languages which we constantly assume as our own.

You are false about Kashmiri language being associated with India. Its actually an insult. We are called "little Iran" for a reason. In fact just to let you know for general knowledge purposes, Khomeini has Kashmiri roots and every year, hundreds of Kashmiri students study in Iran and in the Kashmir Vally alone you will find our architecture and culture being heavily Persian influenced while being Sunni majority. I recommend you to read Persian poetry by a Kashmiri called Ghani Kashmiri. Long story short, our culture is not too different than Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, inspite of being directly under illegal Hindustani occupation and under constant pressure to conform to Indianization from contemporary Punjabis, who have inferiority complexes and Urdu speakers, who are actual Indian natives

Moreover, I would recommend you to read a book called Indus Saga. There is a clear distinction between "Hind" and "Sind" All your confusions will become clear.

 

[Erieye]

Every problem in Pakistan, including ethnic divisions, has a solution. Sometimes people seem to think that Pakistan has unique insolvable issues. But in reality all these problems have been solved in other parts of the world before. Almost every country started off with a multiplicity of ethnicities, languages, etc. but they used scientific methods to unite their country.

It all starts with good governance. Education and development can get rid of most of Pakistan’s problems, including ethnic divisions.

A good example of Pakistan having its own unique and common culture can be seen when attending upper middle class Pakistani functions, like weddings, both in Pakistan in the West. There’s a common language and culture and it’s hard to tell who belongs to which ethnicity, and no one cares about it.

But if we carry on with military-backed looters then the country is on the verge of falling apart.

That's called cultural assimilation, no other way to put it. But that takes incredibly long.

If Pakistan is to survive as a viable state, the two most unstable and vulnerable areas (KPK and Balochistan) must be culturally assimilated.

A lot of people here will sugar coat but the majority of Pasthuns and Baloch, are staunchly ethnonationalists or lean towards those views. Pasthuns themselves hold sympathy for Afghanistan, which would have been fine if it wasn't one of our biggest enemies strictly against our existence.

Alll those moving to Punjab or Sindh should be forced to culturally assimilate. At the moment they are plaguing the cities with their violent tribal tendencies, crime, and constant clashes, as well as attacking locals and altering demographics. As seen recently in QAU when Pashtuns and Balochs clashed.

Separatism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Forced assimilation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Unfortunately, only Punjabis, and to some extent Muhajirs truly believe in the idea of Pakistan. For the rest of the ethnic groups in the country, their ethnicity always comes before Pakistan

Exactly this, and to an extent the Sindhis as well.

Sindhis accepted tons of Muhajirs into Karachi and then Pashtuns/Afghans came and started acting like the uncivilised violent bunch they are and made them more ethnonationalist as it put them off.

It's clear as night that the real issue sits mostly in KP and Balochistan.

You have three options realistically:

- Complete cultural assimilation

- Let them go

- Drone them to fk#

But if you don't have any clear-cut plan, all you are doing right now is wasting precious funds that could have went to development in Punjab/Sindh, in an area that's unstable and could potentially separate, therefore waste your money. Not to mention alter the demographics of your own cities trying to appease them and ruin your own social fabric.

 

[El Sidd]

Forcing people to be a part of a nation against their will is a mockery of the very idea of nationhood

Unfortunately, only Punjabis, and to some extent Muhajirs truly believe in the idea of Pakistan. For the rest of the ethnic groups in the country, their ethnicity always comes before Pakistan

What is the idea of Pakistan? A secular state for protection of economic freedom of minorities of the British Raj in India?

Wrong. "urdu" or Lashkari is not the language of Delhi while Punjabi is of Lahore.

Both languages derive from medieval Punjabi according to the late linguists Mahmoud Hafiz Shirani & professor Graham Bailey amongst others.

That's just not correct. Urdu language developed in army camps of Turkmen soldiers while Farsi was lingua franca of the court. In essence its a tool of resistance against Nobility. No particular region can own Urdu.

Tan for Baluchistan

That's racist and despicable attempt to reinvent and reimagine. The Stan is just the local Persian term for land or belonging to.

 

[ThunderCat]

That's just not correct. Urdu language developed in army camps of Turkmen soldiers while Farsi was lingua franca of the court. In essence its a tool of resistance against Nobility. No particular region can own Urdu.

Another confused post. Firstly when were Turkmens in control of the region? No it did not develop in camps.

It developed in medieval Lahore when the Ghaznavids occupied the Punjab, alternatively Hind, and began learning the local language while inserting their Parsi/Farsi words into it.

The language was also known as Hindavi or Hindui, meaning "of the Indus" which is Sindh & Punjab.

Roughly 177 years later, the Ghaznavids march eastwards, capture Dehli and intergrate this new language with the native Khariboli, a step parent to Lashkari, not a genetic parent. I can post sources if you like.

 

[El Sidd]

Another confused post. Firstly when were Turkmens in control of the region? No it did not develop in camps.

It developed in medieval Lahore when the Ghaznavids occupied the Punjab, alternatively Hind, and began learning the local language while inserting their Parsi/Farsi words into it.

The language was also known as Hindavi or Hindui, meaning "of the Indus" which is Sindh & Punjab.

Roughly 177 years later, the Ghaznavids march eastwards, capture Dehli and intergrate this new language with the native Khariboli, a step parent to Lashkari, not a genetic parent. I can post sources if you like.

Were Ghaznavids not Turkmen?

 

[ThunderCat]

Were Ghaznavids not Turkmen?

Possibly. They were indeed Turkic. But if so, probably related to Turkmens of Afghanistan.

Mughals were definitely not Turkmen, despite being Turkic. They were Chagatai speaking originally.

Ghoris were not Turkmen. But either way, the language Lashkari/Hindui/Hindavi did not start in the military camps of Delhi.

Only the name "urdu" started in Delhi in the poems of Mushafi. This is probably where the confusion came from since "urdu" means camp or Horde. But it's not a name that came from us.

 

[ziaulislam]

do you know qaid e azam solar park was not feasible for cholistan . expert told gov to make in balochistan somewhere land is rocky and not sandy ,

but these idiots installed just 100MW in BHW and its not working now . sand cover the pannels daily and they need water to wash it but there is no water nearby as its desert .

that is why remaining 900MW is scrapped .

these stupids even never learn from KSA . ksa mostly installed solar parks near to sea line where there is no desert and more water to clean pannels frequently .

WB told them to install on tarbela lake and use same transmission system
But hey WB knows nothing is what shahaz sharif told everyone

Pakistan is divided on ethnic line.. everything has to happen in Punjab

Even if it benefits Punjab it shouldn't happen (like building dams)

 

[Kaniska]

I never implied it's your fault. You are the one who always seems to bring up how it's "hypocrisy" on our part because Punjab didn't get bombed enough.

We were safer from terrorism than you guys. That's because you are right next to fking afghanistan. You never faced india's onslaught, did you? Punjabis and Sindhis did that. Bcoz we are right next to them. I don't know how you see that but that's just geography. What's hypocritical about that?

If you are well off than your neighbor today and tomorrow bad times befall you, would you be a hypocrite to complain?

I am sure, you are a knowledgeable person who understands geopolitics...Do you really think, India at any point time in the future will create problems or attack Pakistan Punjab or any border areas?

If you are really smart enough, you should feel happy that your eastern border can be one of the safest borders with booming peace around the region than bordering Taliban-controlled Afghanistan and even Iran.

 

[Ssan]

That's called cultural assimilation, no other way to put it. But that takes incredibly long.

If Pakistan is to survive as a viable state, the two most unstable and vulnerable areas (KPK and Balochistan) must be culturally assimilated.

A lot of people here will sugar coat but the majority of Pasthuns and Baloch, are staunchly ethnonationalists or lean towards those views. Pasthuns themselves hold sympathy for Afghanistan, which would have been fine if it wasn't one of our biggest enemies strictly against our existence.

Alll those moving to Punjab or Sindh should be forced to culturally assimilate. At the moment they are plaguing the cities with their violent tribal tendencies, crime, and constant clashes, as well as attacking locals and altering demographics. As seen recently in QAU when Pashtuns and Balochs clashed.

Separatism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Forced assimilation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Exactly this, and to an extent the Sindhis as well.

Sindhis accepted tons of Muhajirs into Karachi and then Pashtuns/Afghans came and started acting like the uncivilised violent bunch they are and made them more ethnonationalist as it put them off.

It's clear as night that the real issue sits mostly in KP and Balochistan.

You have three options realistically:

- Complete cultural assimilation

- Let them go

- Drone them to fk#

But if you don't have any clear-cut plan, all you are doing right now is wasting precious funds that could have went to development in Punjab/Sindh, in an area that's unstable and could potentially separate, therefore waste your money. Not to mention alter the demographics of your own cities trying to appease them and ruin your own social fabric.

All you all claiming Baloch and Pashtun culture is barbaric don’t have the counter factual.

In a real country, the state would provide development and level the playing field. It would provide socio economic development to these regions. Not take their resources and then blame them for protesting that.

We don’t have the counterfactual of how things would have been had we done the above for the whole of the two provinces. We do have certain areas that developed, say like Peshawar, and the people there are more patriotic and Pakistani than say the tribal areas.

Certainly, one can criticize seperatism and ethno nationalism but this is like saying Bengalis started Mukhti Bahini because they are culturally violent people. And look we are currently taking all the sui gas from Balochistan and giving them nothing and they are not rebelling like the Bengalis are.

Also the objectives resolution which is raison detre of Pakistan, specifically calls out development of economically backward areas as well as minorities.

 

[El Sidd]

Possibly. They were indeed Turkic. But if so, probably related to Turkmens of Afghanistan.

Mughals were definitely not Turkmen, despite being Turkic. They were Chagatai speaking originally.

Ghoris were not Turkmen. But either way, the language Lashkari/Hindui/Hindavi did not start in the military camps of Delhi.

Only the name "urdu" started in Delhi in the poems of Mushafi. This is probably where the confusion came from since "urdu" means camp or Horde. But it's not a name that came from us.

I did not say Delhi nor where it started. I said it developed in the Turkic speaking army camps reporting to Persian speaking bureaucracy practicing Arab religion.

The name Ordu was given hence for its purpose and prime usage which remained a military purpose. As gradually the invading army settled in to their new 'homes', the so called 'intellectual' community found other things to do with the language other than military purpose.