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Why Rafale is a Big Mistake

Ok,so are their gonna be any new things we can learn by signing this deal.Making a radar,engine,airframes anything at all which may help our Indigenous efforts.

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I t will only make HAL stronger and divert the funds from indigenous programs towards the deal.

But we have no choice,,do we.
Hal has been an utter failure so we have to look elsewhere
 
Do u have any idea what u just wrote:coffee:




No one will sell that technology to us for 100 billion$,,,let alone 10 billion$.
Not everything is for sale
Then put money in Joint projects like Brahmos or put this money to steal technology (like Chinese). Point is buying Rafale for technology is waste of money
 
Then put money in Joint projects like Brahmos or put this money to steal technology (like Chinese). Point is buying Rafale for technology is waste of money

But rafale is one of the best 4.5 gen out there so its not a waste.
Well if u were expecting tot for radar or engine,,,then yeah that won't happen
 
IF the deal is not signed within two years at the most, IT WILL THEN INDEED BE A BIG MISTAKE.

Mind you, the sooner the better but inductions from 2020 are the latest we can afford, beyond that point the IAF's projections will go out of whack and we will be acquiring a 4.5 gen aircraft for a 5th gen aircraft's price and in a 5th gen aricraft's time frame (taking into consideration the total time that will elapse till reasonable squadron strength of the said craft is established).

For the jingos with the ToT fever, get off it, the sort of ToT you folks are dreaming about does not exist, PERIOD!

Otherwise the craft is well worth the cost and will fit in for the IAF's projected role, this of course would have truly been applicable had deliveries started this year or the next (contract signature occurring in 011-012), the further the induction date is pushed the more its actual value will diminish.
 
IF the deal is not signed within two years at the most, IT WILL THEN INDEED BE A BIG MISTAKE.

Mind you, the sooner the better but inductions from 2020 are the latest we can afford, beyond that point the IAF's projections will go out of whack and we will be acquiring a 4.5 gen aircraft for a 5th gen aircraft's price and in a 5th gen aricraft's time frame (taking into consideration the total time that will elapse till reasonable squadron strength of the said craft is established).

For the jingos with the ToT fever, get off it, the sort of ToT you folks are dreaming about does not exist, PERIOD!

Otherwise the craft is well worth the cost and will fit in for the IAF's projected role, this of course would have truly been applicable had deliveries started this year or the next (contract signature occurring in 011-012), the further the induction date is pushed the more its actual value will diminish.



Really man,,,sick and tired of every tom dick and harry claiming that tot will help us develop our own radar and engine:mad:
 
Really man,,,sick and tired of every tom dick and harry claiming that tot will help us develop our own radar and engine:mad:

If tot goes to private company. They know IAF will demand more, they also know that they have to pay more again to other company for newer system. So they will start learning and developing the system from tot and manufacturing. ..........but HAL, hal is just the dump site for money.
 
If tot goes to private company. They know IAF will demand more, they also know that they have to pay more again to other company for newer system. So they will start learning and developing the system from tot and manufacturing. ..........but HAL, hal is just the dump site for money.

I agree fully
 
But rafale is one of the best 4.5 gen out there so its not a waste.
Well if u were expecting tot for radar or engine,,,then yeah that won't happen
What are you talking about they are Giving Us Rbe2 Aesa here is Old Press release By french official Long time Back about Contract are you nuts we are paying them this amount for nothing
domain-b.com : Dassault ups the ante with full technology transfer for Rafale

Paris: The French government has cleared full technology transfer for Dassault's Rafale combat jet, one of the six contenders for the Indian Air Force's (IAF) 126 multi-role medium range combat aircraft (MMRCA) tender, which is estimated to be eventually worth atleast $11 billion over its lifetime.

Briefing Indian media representatives at its Champs-Elysées, Paris, headquarters Dassault Aviation's senior vice president for military sales, JPHP Chabriol, said, ''When we talk about technology transfer, we mean full technology transfer and not in bits and pieces.''

''The way we work, we first have to obtain clearance of the government before putting in our proposal. If we win the order, we can begin work on transferring technology from day one - unlike our competition,'' he added.

Critically for India, the transfer-of-technology (T-o-T) would include that of a state-of-the-art Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar that would provide Rafale the ability to also function as a close battlefield support airborne warning and control system (AWACS), apart from its designed function as a fighter. The AESA radar T-o-T would also include transfer of software source code, according to Chabriol.


This is a matter of great concern for India, or any country, that seeks T-o-T of sensitive equipment. Lack of access to the source code would not allow a country to re-programme a radar or any sensitive equipment should it so wish.

Defence analysts point out that this could seriously compromise India's national security as the IAF would not be able to re-programme the radar should it wish to at a later stage.

The AESA radar on offer from Dassault is still under development by French aerospace giant Thales and is expected to be integrated with the aircraft by 2012. This is roughly the time the selected aircraft from the MMRCA tender may be expected to enter IAF service.

''We have full faith in the competency of Thales to deliver a top of the line AESA radar,'' Chabriol added.

Two other competing fighters Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet and the European conglomerate Eurofighter's Typhoon are also being made available with AESA radars though with the provision that transfer of technology for this equipment would be dependent on the decision of their respective governments.

Earlier statements from manufacturers of AESA radars has been categorical about the fact that transfer of source code is not on the cards. Since source code enables programming of the radar, what this implies is that the IAF would have to specify mission parameters to foreign manufacturers to enable configuration of their radar, seriously compromising security in the process.
''This is not an issue with us. We will not only fully transfer the technology for the AESA radar but also provide the software source code so that that the IAF can programme it in the way it wishes to,'' Chabriol informed journalists.
 
What are you talking about they are Giving Us Rbe2 Aesa here is Old Press release By french official Long time Back about Contract are you nuts we are paying them this amount for nothing
domain-b.com : Dassault ups the ante with full technology transfer for Rafale

Paris: The French government has cleared full technology transfer for Dassault's Rafale combat jet, one of the six contenders for the Indian Air Force's (IAF) 126 multi-role medium range combat aircraft (MMRCA) tender, which is estimated to be eventually worth atleast $11 billion over its lifetime.

Briefing Indian media representatives at its Champs-Elysées, Paris, headquarters Dassault Aviation's senior vice president for military sales, JPHP Chabriol, said, ''When we talk about technology transfer, we mean full technology transfer and not in bits and pieces.''

''The way we work, we first have to obtain clearance of the government before putting in our proposal. If we win the order, we can begin work on transferring technology from day one - unlike our competition,'' he added.

Critically for India, the transfer-of-technology (T-o-T) would include that of a state-of-the-art Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar that would provide Rafale the ability to also function as a close battlefield support airborne warning and control system (AWACS), apart from its designed function as a fighter. The AESA radar T-o-T would also include transfer of software source code, according to Chabriol.


This is a matter of great concern for India, or any country, that seeks T-o-T of sensitive equipment. Lack of access to the source code would not allow a country to re-programme a radar or any sensitive equipment should it so wish.

Defence analysts point out that this could seriously compromise India's national security as the IAF would not be able to re-programme the radar should it wish to at a later stage.

The AESA radar on offer from Dassault is still under development by French aerospace giant Thales and is expected to be integrated with the aircraft by 2012. This is roughly the time the selected aircraft from the MMRCA tender may be expected to enter IAF service.

''We have full faith in the competency of Thales to deliver a top of the line AESA radar,'' Chabriol added.

Two other competing fighters Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet and the European conglomerate Eurofighter's Typhoon are also being made available with AESA radars though with the provision that transfer of technology for this equipment would be dependent on the decision of their respective governments.

Earlier statements from manufacturers of AESA radars has been categorical about the fact that transfer of source code is not on the cards. Since source code enables programming of the radar, what this implies is that the IAF would have to specify mission parameters to foreign manufacturers to enable configuration of their radar, seriously compromising security in the process.
''This is not an issue with us. We will not only fully transfer the technology for the AESA radar but also provide the software source code so that that the IAF can programme it in the way it wishes to,'' Chabriol informed journalists.


Man u can keep on posting whatever u want but fact remains

We will just get the software codes from rafale side in case of radars,,,nothing at all in hardware department

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It has always been like this,,,and always be like this.
U are free to ask any senior member here
 
Man u can keep on posting whatever u want but fact remains

We will just get the software codes from rafale side in case of radars,,,nothing at all in hardware department

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It has always been like this,,,and always be like this.
U are free to ask any senior member here
yeah I Know Some Member Like @Abingdonboy @sancho in Discussions you should read it
Saurav Jha's Blog : Why the Dassault Rafale will be purchased by the Indian Air Force
100% Gain
how really the Radars will be Made by BEL in India Only Under ToT
No one is Saying that we can Manufacture Whole Rafale From Scratch But Tot Can Further used in Advancements of Future Projects
 
yeah I Know Some Member Like @Abingdonboy @sancho in Discussions you should read it
Saurav Jha's Blog : Why the Dassault Rafale will be purchased by the Indian Air Force
how really the Radars will be Made by BEL in India Only Under ToT
No one is Saying that we can Manufacture Whole Rafale From Scratch But Tot Can Further used in Advancements of Future Projects

I don't follow any member here,,,only common sense.
The level of tot will be same as in case of mki's.

Did we learn to make even the bars pesa radar??
or al-31f engine??

No............there is a reason for it,such sensitive info is never for tot,,,no matter how much u are willing to shell
 
I don't follow any member here,,,only common sense.
The level of tot will be same as in case of mki's.

Did we learn to make even the bars pesa radar??
or al-31f engine??

No............there is a reason for it,such sensitive info is never for tot,,,no matter how much u are willing to shell
Mki Project ToT Is Far more Different than MMRCA Contract .Actually the ToT matter is Already Settle
Rafale deal: Govt says Dassault's ToT offer compliant | Business Standard News
So We get What we Demanded
 
rafale is perfect (for us though costly). lets just hope this is the last totally foreign fighter. i don't mind if we buy surveilience aircraft but not fighters anymore.

lets hope.
 
India please go and buy those Rafales and do buy them in numbers like 200+ so there can be peace on PDF and other defense forums. :D
 
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