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Why Pakistan Produces Jihadists

AM, I'm not disagreeing with you here. I'm just pointing out that, despite any past failures, simply by having a front-page article in the Wall Street Journal FZ oozes credibility and thus wields influence, and that influence can only be countered with substance, not personal attacks.

EDIT: Oops! Zakaria writes primarily in Newsweek and The Washington Post, not WSJ. He also appears on CNN, I think. Still influential, with a wider audience than WSJ, though perhaps not so seriously influencing policymakers. Sorry, folks.

Solomon2:

How effectively did Americans question the veracity of the misinformation propagated about Iraq in the runup to the war?

Zakaria, and others, continue to insist that the PA and ISI are supporting the Taliban, or some factions of it - where is the evidence of that?

Primarily these allegations derive from the lack of Pakistani military action in NW, but analogous to that, has the US not just abandoned territory to the Taliban in Kunar, with the excuse of 'resource constraints'?

If the collective military and economic might of NATO cannot prevent the ceding of territory to the Taliban, even if temporarily (though no return date has been set either) then why assign malicious intent to the Pakistani decision to not attack NW, based on similar rationale of resource constraints, stabilizing existing conflict-zones etc.?

These are arguments that have been made time and time again by Pakistani commentators, but as with the propaganda about Iraq, most of the US 'intelligentsia' and media refuses to see the rather blatant double standards applied in critiquing Pakistani military decisions, while lauding McChrystal for his 'grand new strategy of defending the population centers in Afghanistan'.

I would argue that the domestic dynamics in the US are not really that different from those in Pakistan - the people need a simplistic solution to a major issue and a scapegoat, and Pakistan and blaming the PA/ISI ends up being that simplistic solution. The Western media, frequently with GoUS assistance through the ubiquitous 'anonymous sources', plays the same role in perpetuating the 'bogeyman', that Americans would argue the media in Pakistan does with respect to 'external actors' being responsible for chaos in Pakistan.

Add in commentators like Zakaria with pre-existing biases, and uninformed analysis is now deliberately biased and distorted analysis to push a particular agenda, and because that agenda dovetails with the existing need to scapegoat, it becomes rather hard to point out fallacies in the dominant narrative.
 
funny thing is, less people were killed by terrorists in pakistan than by doctors in the US.

In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA

Pakistan suffers record number of deaths due to militant violence | World news | guardian.co.uk

3,021 people killed in terrorist attacks in 2009 – a 48% rise, according to Islamabad thinktank

If pakistan is epicenter of islamic terrorism, then the US is a 50 times more dangerous epicenter of medical terrorism.


This forum does not allow me to use the words that I want to use to describe your post.. For the want of better word, its naive and self serving.

Do you know how many people die of road accidents in a single province of Pakistan(or any other country) every day.. Greater than 50. In terms of fatality thats like a Lahore kind of blast happeneing every day in Sindh.. Well you dont see PA going after errant drivers like its going after TTP or AT (hopefully)..

Comparing accidental death and premeditated mass murder is BS at best...
 

(CNN) -- The ranking Republican on the House intelligence committee says "there probably is a strong link" between Times Square car bombing suspect Faisal Shahzad and the Taliban in Pakistan.

Rep. Peter Hoekstra told CNN's American Morning on Thursday that he has drawn that conclusion from a number of sources.

"If this is accurate, it would be a game-changer," Hoekstra said.

"We're going to get much more aggressive and perhaps more creative in terms of how we gather intelligence to find the plots and find individuals to stop them," he said
.

He said his committee, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, will be getting an official briefing later Thursday.

According to a law enforcement source with knowledge of Shahzad's questioning, the suspect made a practice run in Manhattan the day before he allegedly tried to blow up a car bomb in Times Square.

Last Friday, Shahzad drove his white Isuzu from Connecticut through Times Square, where he staked out potential locations for the following night's planned attack, the source said. He then parked the Isuzu several blocks away from Times Square, though the precise location was unclear, and took a train back to Connecticut, the source said.

Separately, authorities in Pakistan have rounded up a number of people for questioning, as U.S. law enforcement officials sought Wednesday to piece together Shahzad's actions and motivations.

Iftikhar Mian, the father-in-law of the suspect, and Tauseef Ahmed, Shahzad's friend, were picked up in Karachi, Pakistan, on Tuesday, two intelligence officials said.

An intelligence source said Wednesday that Muhammed Rehan, an associate of Shahzad, also was detained Tuesday.

New details began to emerge on how Shahzad made his way to Times Square on Saturday night.

With his recently acquired Pathfinder loaded with his makeshift explosives, Shahzad drove southbound along Manhattan's East River on FDR Drive to the 49th Street exit, the law enforcement source said.

Shahzad then pulled over and reached into the Pathfinder's rear compartment where he attempted to set into motion the process needed to set off the homemade bomb, the source said.

The source, who did not explain how Shahzad had attempted to set off the bomb, said he then took a number of turns and wound up entering Times Square by driving south down Seventh Avenue.

It's unclear why Shahzad left the Pathfinder's engine running and hazard lights blinking.

But because of an incredible goof, Shahzad couldn't use his escape car. He had accidentally left the keys to that vehicle in the Pathfinder that he thought was about to blow up, the source said.

He apparently went to a train station, where he boarded a Metro North train back to Connecticut.

Another law enforcement source told CNN that investigators found a train receipt used by Shahzad that is stamped about 7 p.m., a half hour after a witness notified authorities that the car in Times Square was filing with smoke.

Sources say investigators believe he ran to catch the train that pulled out around 7 or 7:15 Saturday night.

The source added that police investigators have discovered a surveillance video of Shahzad walking in Shubert Alley -- which runs between 44th and 45th streets just west of Broadway -- moments after witnesses saw the smoky SUV. In the video he is wearing a white baseball cap.

In Islamabad, Pakistan, a senior Pakistani official said Wednesday that Shahzad's associate Rehan allegedly was instrumental in making possible a meeting between Shahzad and at least one senior Taliban official..

The official told CNN that Rehan drove Shahzad on July 7 in a pickup truck to Peshawar, Pakistan. At some point, they headed to the Waziristan region, where they met with one or more senior Taliban leaders, the official said.

Rehan is believed to have links to the militant group Jaish-e-Mohammed, which is close to al Qaeda and the Pakistani Taliban, the official said.

Several officials in Karachi said Rehan was picked up in Karachi's North Nazimabad district. They said others were taken into custody for questioning on Wednesday, but could not say how many, who they were or where they were seized.

Meanwhile, efforts to determine what may have motivated the suspect continued. An official familiar with the investigation said Wednesday that Shahzad felt Islam was under attack.

Any grudge Shahzad may have held against the United States appears to have developed recently, according to a senior U.S. official who is familiar with the investigation but not authorized to speak publicly.

The investigation has found nothing to indicate that Shahzad had any long-standing grudge or anger toward the United States, the official said.

"What we know is, the dynamic appeared to have changed in the last year," the official said.

Investigators have not determined whether Shahzad had any training from Pakistani groups in anything, the source said.

Additionally, the official suggested, detentions in Pakistan have been carried out to collect information and not because officials had reached any conclusions about their guilt or ties to any groups.

"They are reaching out to people, bringing them in and doing their due diligence, but 'arrest' suggests a strong connection to the guy. While anything is possible, they haven't arrived at any conclusion," the source said.

The official added that there was nothing to indicate the suspect is from an extremist family.

Asked whether Shahzad was a "wannabe" who may be inflating his contacts, the source said, "It is going to take a little more time for the investigation to gel."

Investigators have uncovered no evidence that the suspect had U.S.-based associates related to the plot, a federal law enforcement official said Wednesday.

Investigators believe he handled the logistics himself, from purchasing the car to buying the materials for the bomb, the official said.

Investigators are looking for any associates who may be overseas, the official said.

The federal law enforcement official said Wednesday that Shahzad was still cooperating with the FBI and had waived his right to a lawyer. The official did not provide details about what Shahzad has been saying.

Shahzad, 30, a naturalized U.S. citizen from Pakistan, was arrested late Monday at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport after boarding a flight bound for Dubai, United Arab Emirates. His final destination was to have been in Pakistan.

When authorities tracked him down, Shahzad apparently was unsurprised. "Are you NYPD or FBI?" he asked. A Customs and Border Protection agent exposed his badge and said, "CBP," an administration official said.

In Washington, State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley told reporters that "the Pakistanis are fully cooperating in the investigation. They recognize, as we do, that this is a shared responsibility and a shared threat."

The charges paint him as a terrorist who received explosives training in Pakistan's volatile Waziristan region, where government forces have been working to root out Taliban militants. The Pakistani Taliban, a major militant group in the region, praised the suspect but denied any link to him.

Shahzad has been charged with attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction, acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries, and three other counts in connection with the incident. If convicted, he faces up to life in prison.

Shahzad admitted he drove a Nissan Pathfinder into Times Square on Saturday night and attempted to detonate the vehicle, which was packed with gasoline, propane tanks, fireworks and nonexplosive fertilizer, according to a complaint filed Tuesday in U.S. District Court in New York.

Court documents said that after receiving bomb-making training in Pakistan, Shahzad returned to the United States via a one-way plane ticket February 3.

Upon his return, Shahzad qualified for secondary, or more detailed, screening under Customs and Border Protection criteria and was interviewed, the administration official said.

He told immigration officials that he had been visiting his parents in Pakistan for the previous five months, according to the documents. He also told officials that his wife remained in Pakistan.

CBP, following protocol, sent a report to the FBI and other intelligence agencies that included Shahzad's passenger information, the official said. Included in that report were phone numbers associated with his travel, when he bought his ticket and when he filed a customs form, the official said.

The court documents show that Shahzad apparently maintained contact with people in Pakistan after returning to the United States.

He received 12 phone calls from his country of birth in the days leading up to the incident -- five on the day he bought the Nissan Pathfinder used in the attempted attack. Those calls ceased three days before the failed bombing, the documents show.

Authorities began focusing on Shahzad after tracing the sale of the Pathfinder to him.

Shahzad's father, Bahar Ul Haq, is a retired senior officer in the Pakistani air force. The former air vice marshal lives in the Peshawar suburb of Hayatabad, according to Kafayat Ali, whose father is a first cousin of Shahzad's father.

Shahzad lived at his father's house in Hayatabad when his father was posted in Peshawar, Ali said. Shahzad, his elder brother Amir and their two sisters moved with the father and received their education in the cities where the father was assigned.

Ali said Shahzad's hometown is Mohib Banda, a village about 78 miles (124 kilometers) northwest of Islamabad. Ul Haq has farmland in Mohib Banda, and Shahzad and his siblings visited there during vacations and to attend relatives' weddings.

Ali said Amir is a mechanical engineer living in Canada, where he is married and lives with his family. Both sisters are married; one is a doctor and the other is a housewife.
 
Well as for as Maoists are concrened they dont blow them selves up and export terrorism around the world like your TTP do.They are not a religious organisations fighting against infedels ..Our govt.consider them as a menace and it is a internal problem of India only..is that the case of TTP and other terrorist organisations orginated from Pakistan??Who is to be blamed for all those peoples from your country who involved in terrorists action around the world ..most of the terrorists action has some how related to Pakistan..is this some thing you have to actually worried about..so instead of taking pot shot and pointing fingure to other like US did some thing in the 80's and Indians are rejoicing you should talk about the topic at hand..
Firstly what do you Indians rate as world, since your knowledge is limited to TTP, let me enlighten you that TTP terminology is refered to the Indian sponsored terrorists in Pakistan, the other action in your small world are supposedly carried out by those affiliated to the Al-Quaida. Talking of blowing others up, well you have seen how the Maoist reacted when the Indian authorities tried to retake a piece of Forrest from them, well the scumbags blowing your so called world up were once planted there and now they are being forced out as the likes of US and NATO, try to uproot and retake their piece of Forrest. And you sit tight in your corner as all the NATO firepower was unable to execute as what Pakistan Army alone managed to achieve by sheer determination and will, hence we don't need no weekend warriors to rant about our responsibilities.
..as far as Pamela Anderson is concerned every body knows he is the crossdresser Hamid Qureshi.Reporting under a western ladies name does not make him any better .may be you guys have fun hearing the baseless reports of women soldiers in BSF are whores..but its our soldiers and they gurad our border ..and we gave them proper respect ..
Then i suggest you stick to the likes of Aaj Tak, i am sure that puts wind in your sails.
Bringing Dalits or Maosists will never make your country any better..you can sleep better by pointing figures at the situation of India..but in the end you are the one dealing with all these menace and you are your own in this battle
Let me assure you, whatever is happening around us and whatever your country sends our way, no one in Pakistan misses a heart beat but hey as they say, what goes around...... comes around. :cheers:
 
This forum does not allow me to use the words that I want to use to describe your post.. For the want of better word, its naive and self serving.

Do you know how many people die of road accidents in a single province of Pakistan(or any other country) every day.. Greater than 50. In terms of fatality thats like a Lahore kind of blast happeneing every day in Sindh.. Well you dont see PA going after errant drivers like its going after TTP or AT (hopefully)..

Comparing accidental death and premeditated mass murder is BS at best...
It says something about those too, who thanked that post.:disagree:
 
But you see, Earthquakes are a force of nature (ignoring what Sharon Stone claims), whereas Medical Malpractice leading to death is caused by man.

See the difference. And he wasn't trolling, you just did. He made a valid point by making that comparison to show that Pakistan is being made a patsy.... a very dangerous thing, as Iraq and then Afghan were both called "hotbeds of terrorism" for which the excuse to attack was made. This is very serious and urgent time for Pakistan. We need to stand up for Pakistan, and say NO to this phoney Jew-conspired WOT.

:pakistan::china::usflag::pakistan::china::usflag:

jew-conspired WOT - this type of thinking is the main cause of all your problems. waving Chinese and Pakistani flags whenever you get the opportunity just makes it worse.
 
Abu Zolfiqar, that's cute, but that doesn't criticize anything Fareed Zakaria wrote. If personal attacks are all you can muster, why shouldn't American policymakers take FZ's words as true and useful?

Every single one of his reports he does regarding Pakistan are biased to the max. He aims to smear the world respected reputation of Pakistan Army. He tries to implicate ISI in every single incident, even a fire-cracker going off.

He lacks any real knowledge on the ground realities, he just plays on headlines and over-used rhetoric.

In all honesty, he should have stuck to Newsweek and reporting on the Palestine-israeli conflict.


like i said, his furry tail wags at opportunities to malign Pakistan and Pakistan Armed Forces. We need renowned scholars like Akbar Ahmed, Shuja Nawaz (Atlantic Council) and many others to debunk his ridiculous theories and propaganda.






p.s. he studied under Samuel P. Huntington --author of the controversial 'clash of civilizations'..... that should tell you something ;)
 
Every single one of his reports he does regarding Pakistan are biased to the max. He aims to smear the world respected reputation of Pakistan Army. He tries to implicate ISI in every single incident, even a fire-cracker going off.

He lacks any real knowledge on the ground realities, he just plays on headlines and over-used rhetoric.

In all honesty, he should have stuck to Newsweek and reporting on the Palestine-israeli conflict.


like i said, his furry tail wags at opportunities to malign Pakistan and Pakistan Armed Forces. We need renowned scholars like Akbar Ahmed, Shuja Nawaz (Atlantic Council) and many others to debunk his ridiculous theories and propaganda.






p.s. he studied under Samuel P. Huntington --author of the controversial 'clash of civilizations'..... that should tell you something ;)



yar answer him
"Gentlemen dont bother to answer dogs who bark"
 
Firstly what do you Indians rate as world, since your knowledge is limited to TTP, let me enlighten you that TTP terminology is refered to the Indian sponsored terrorists in Pakistan, the other action in your small world are supposedly carried out by those affiliated to the Al-Quaida. Talking of blowing others up, well you have seen how the Maoist reacted when the Indian authorities tried to retake a piece of Forrest from them, well the scumbags blowing your so called world up were once planted there and now they are being forced out as the likes of US and NATO, try to uproot and retake their piece of Forrest. And you sit tight in your corner as all the NATO firepower was unable to execute as what Pakistan Army alone managed to achieve by sheer determination and will, hence we don't need no weekend warriors to rant about our responsibilities. Then i suggest you stick to the likes of Aaj Tak, i am sure that puts wind in your sails.

Let me assure you, whatever is happening around us and whatever your country sends our way, no one in Pakistan misses a heart beat but hey as they say, what goes around...... comes around. :cheers:

Indian sponsored terrorism, Jew sponsored WOT, USA behind all problem in Pakistan, RAW behind the TTP, Mossad behind all bomb blast. It seems that everybody is after Pakistan for some reason. Maybe its time for Pakistan to introspect than blame every other person for their own problems, there is surely something that Pakistan is doing wrong to have so much domestic instability. Its quite easy to put all the blame on India but that does not solve your problems.
 
Indian sponsored terrorism, Jew sponsored WOT, USA behind all problem in Pakistan, RAW behind the TTP, Mossad behind all bomb blast. It seems that everybody is after Pakistan for some reason. Maybe its time for Pakistan to introspect than blame every other person for their own problems, there is surely something that Pakistan is doing wrong to have so much domestic instability. Its quite easy to put all the blame on India but that does not solve your problems.

its Pakistani channel so you will feel this feeling
go to indian channels and you will think all are against india

btw in world of real politicks no one is innocence

is india or israel innocent

if you think yes then you live in fools paradise

National intrest for every state is supreme
 

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