Why Pakistan Produces Jihadists

[Bang Galore]

Much like the nigerain guy in London, he attended mosques in London, some of which just preach hatred.

Perhaps this person was also brainwashed in a mosque in US and then send to Pak where he met with other such characters who pulled a number on him.

You should read the case Omar Sheikh who was a british person of Pakistani origin and he was brainwashed in a mosque in london that was actually used by intelligence agencies such MI5 to use muslim youths for a war in Bosnia. He later defected and was then used by Islamic groups.

Of all the members here, you come across as probably the most conflicted. You are clearly torn between defending Pakistan from the accusations and your own beliefs that the people at fault here are to be found within and not elsewhere.
It comes out most clearly when you crtiticised Zakaria. Your own views as expressed over the last couple of days are far more blunt than Zakaria's ever was.

I appreciate that it must be difficult for you to make the choice of agreeing with "the enemy" or blindly defend as others have done even when your heart isn't in it? I also understand that the people who stand to most lose because of this incident are people like you and those of your countrymen & women who either work or live abroad.

It's not my place to tell what choice you should make. I can only ask you to carefully consider the choice of what sort of Pakistan do you want? For yourselves and maybe one day for your children. Cutting off your noses to spite Indians is not the best way to go.

 

[T-Faz]

T-Faz, I have seen a lot of Pakistanis from UK, who have all the potential in the world to become a Jihadis, is there no mechanism by British Gov to put a check on these types of mosques specially after the London Sub Way bomb blasts

In the UK (its like Islamic Republic of Britain for some), these extremist groups for some odd reason are not banned or clamped down. The people have such hardline ideologies that their whole outlook on life and their temperament is shocking in the least.

The government is either scared (Human rights) or happy to let this thirve for their own uses. Going to Karachi is like a breath of fresh air becuase muslims are hounded here by others to attend mosques or go to Islamic functions.

They have channels where they openly preach hate and from these groups, all of their children have a beard by their late teens and look like typical mullahs in the making.

It is very off putting to see all this happen around you, especially considering that most muslims have a very bleak outlook on life, once thet fall prey to these people.

Every where you go, its Islamic this and Halal that. That makes other people angry and I hope that one day they do not react harshly to us.

 

[Solomon2]

Abu Zolfiqar, that's cute, but that doesn't criticize anything Fareed Zakaria wrote. If personal attacks are all you can muster, why shouldn't American policymakers take FZ's words as true and useful?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Unfirtunately one single man can cause so much damage especially as all enemies find solace in the situation.

I am just shocked and completely dumbfounded as to why this shahzad guy would want to carry out such a thing. I have no clue as to what his motivations were and if he even thought, what the implications of his actions could be.

This is beyond pathetic for a man who had everything in life as it should be to go on to do such a thing.

Well as to some others who enjoy this, go ahead and have your fun.

Agree with you entirely.
He is not from a deprived section of society, a semi-literate product of a madrassa in an obscure village, a person affected by Kashmir or a refugee from Afghanistan?

What can possibly motivate such a person to act in a such a fashion? Is'nt this worthy of some hard thinking?
The consequences to him are known, but it is likely to affect other people from Pakistan who don't think like him- another point to ponder!

Lastly he seems to have a family; a wife and two small children, do they remain unaffected?

 

[T-Faz]

Of all the members here, you come across as probably the most conflicted. You are clearly torn between defending Pakistan from the accusations and your own beliefs that the people at fault here are to be found within and not elsewhere.
It comes out most clearly when you crtiticised Zakaria. Your own views as expressed over the last couple of days are far more blunt than Zakaria's ever was.

I appreciate that it must be difficult for you to make the choice of agreeing with "the enemy" or blindly defend as others have done even when your heart isn't in it? I also understand that the people who stand to most lose because of this incident are people like you and those of your countrymen & women who either work or live abroad.

It's not my place to tell what choice you should make. I can only ask you to carefully consider the choice of what sort of Pakistan do you want? For yourselves and maybe one day for your children. Cutting off your noses to spite Indians is not the best way to go.

You are wrong on one thing, I am defending Pakistan and not some Pakistani's or some Muslims who are at fault. Pakistan to me is what it always was and what it always will be and that is my home.

For some it is a different story, I hate this extremism that has gripped only certain elements and I am against those elements. However I am ready to serve Pakistan in any capacity but also surpress any wrong doings of some people within my country.

Similarly I am of a certain view and I know what is at stake and what is not, perhaps Mr Zakaria being in a positon that he is, be less biased regarding his views and take in different points of view to present a story.

Funny thing is that I only have conflict with two things, firstly the enemy from within and in this case Muslim extremist and others who harm the interest of my country. I do not have a conflict with myself.

I wont disclose personal info to tell you who I am or preach my life story, but I can tell you this. I know what is wrong and I know what is right, I have the sense and standing to know that people exist in my country who can take on these two challenges that face us and we will pass through this time.

It just takes time and I will be here and so will Pakistan but this stupid ideology that started some time ago will slowly diminish.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Actually the dangerous mix of Islam and Politics which cannot happen in many Islamic countries today caused Mullahs to use other methods for their gain.

Similarly Jihad was used as a tool for defeating USSR and it gave mullahs an incentive to continue this trend of using Islam as a means for political and financial gain. The end result being power of course. This is used to defeat the so called 'Kaffir' and will provide unlimmited resources from many muslim countries.

This was all the doing of the satanic man known as the 'Blind Sheikh', aided by CIA who created this system and was able to single handedly align together all the ill of Islam under one banner of defeating the enemy.


Here is some info for you on the Blind Sheikh.

[

URL="http://www.historycommons.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=blind+sheikh&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go"]The Blind Sheikh[/URL]

Also saudia, gives oil dollar to preach Wahabism. A very hardline ideology of Islam that is prevalent in many mosques around the globe. Who else do you think will provide the finance for mosques.

Thanks for sharing info about 'Blind Sheikh'. Very comprehensive at a single source.
The fact that various people collaborated with Him really begs the question- Who is really 'blind'?

Religion and Politics make a very dangerous mix- not at all a pleasant cocktail! This has been proved numerous times in history (across all religions).

Money + Military + Mullahs (or any functionary in any religion) = Recipe for DISASTER.

 

[peace prophet]

a new breed of Terrorists is coming into view, educated Pakistanis living abroad along with some 'Kashmiri Elements', end of Era of Militants & terrorists from Madrassas

Can you elaborate on this?? Havent seen any terrorist event in JnK since quite long (many years maybe).

Not even in India. And the ones which were like 26 11, they werent done by "Kashmiri elements", these were done by hard core pakistani terrorists.

 

[Iggy]

Well the so called cheap shot has got your attention,
With the actions of one individual, and you people are taking pot shots at the whole society. Don't even equate the Maoist insurgency with the misdeeds of a culprit because according to your own PM, Maoist represent the most serious threat to the Indian state just like the TTP were a menace to Pakistan. And before rejoicing and glorifying an Indian journalists gloats, perhaps you too need to accept some realities and not sweep all under the carpet while refering them to rupee news or a Christina Palmer article.

Well as for as Maoists are concrened they dont blow them selves up and export terrorism around the world like your TTP do.They are not a religious organisations fighting against infedels ..Our govt.consider them as a menace and it is a internal problem of India only..is that the case of TTP and other terrorist organisations orginated from Pakistan??Who is to be blamed for all those peoples from your country who involved in terrorists action around the world ..most of the terrorists action has some how related to Pakistan..is this some thing you have to actually worried about..so instead of taking pot shot and pointing fingure to other like US did some thing in the 80's and Indians are rejoicing you should talk about the topic at hand..

..as far as Pamela Anderson is concerned every body knows he is the crossdresser Hamid Qureshi.Reporting under a western ladies name does not make him any better .may be you guys have fun hearing the baseless reports of women soldiers in BSF are whores..but its our soldiers and they gurad our border ..and we gave them proper respect ..

Bringing Dalits or Maosists will never make your country any better..you can sleep better by pointing figures at the situation of India..but in the end you are the one dealing with all these menace and you are your own in this battle

 

[Hulk]

funny thing is, less people were killed by terrorists in pakistan than by doctors in the US.

In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA

Pakistan suffers record number of deaths due to militant violence | World news | guardian.co.uk

3,021 people killed in terrorist attacks in 2009 – a 48% rise, according to Islamabad thinktank

If pakistan is epicenter of islamic terrorism, then the US is a 50 times more dangerous epicenter of medical terrorism.

Height of stupid comment I have recently read. As per reaction Ofcourse when someone defends your criminal son, you feel happy.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Abu Zolfiqar, that's cute, but that doesn't criticize anything Fareed Zakaria wrote. If personal attacks are all you can muster, why shouldn't American policymakers take FZ's words as true and useful?

That said, Zakarai has shown himself to have a history of pursuing an anti-PA/ISI position. He is on record, several times, as having said that the US should ditch Pakistan and use India to resolve the regional imbroglio - that, and his origins, quite clearly identify his bias

He fell flat on his face especially after the PA's Swat offensive, which he had doomed to failure when it was barely off the ground. Overall his 'analysis' is a regurgitation of the usual 'PA is supporting Taliban' tough there is little evidence to back that up any more. FZ has merely played opportunist, as have others, with the Faisal Shazad attack to dig up rumors bashing Pakistan.

 

[Solomon2]

AM, I'm not disagreeing with you here. I'm just pointing out that, despite any past failures, simply by having a front-page article in the Wall Street Journal FZ oozes credibility and thus wields influence, and that influence can only be countered with substance, not personal attacks.

EDIT: Oops! Zakaria writes primarily in Newsweek and The Washington Post, not WSJ. He also appears on CNN, I think. Still influential, with a wider audience than WSJ, though perhaps not so seriously influencing policymakers. Sorry, folks.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^Never thought foreign media could hold Pakistan responsible so clearly. But it means, the tide is turning and its time Pak takes some serious steps, or in no time would it be labeled another failed state. The international community has started to take notice and soon they will be all over it. US will get another excuse to fight terrorism and safeguard Pak's nukes. I can clearly see, US would at least try to do to Pak what it did to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Things have gotten worse than Libya, and if not cured now, it might become another Somalia, but I pray to God, that day never comes.

Mostly it is Fareed Zakaria on his usual anti-Pakistan trip.

As for the international community and repercussions for Pakistan, that will be a concern if the government level relationships start falling apart, not when the usual suspects rant their typical anti-Pakistan BS in the media.

There is a reason the GoP made sure it went public with the arrests and investigations it was conducting, and given the intelligence cooperation between the ISI and the CIA, there is probably a lot more going on than is publicly known.

In the end it is cooperation on the ground, between Pakistan and US intelligence and security forces, and input from the CIA, US Mil, US Ambassador on that cooperation, that will set the tone for the relationship pursued by the US adminsitration, and not the ranting of Fareed Zakaria on CNN.

 

[deepak75]

But I could not come across anything by FZ on this thread!!

The opening article of this thread is from WSJ by Sadanand propagating...... "Indian Drivel"?

Edit: Found the FZ bit too. Ooopssy

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Terror export

Perhaps our thesis that it is essentially the poor who are exploited by the militants is somewhat flawed. Perhaps we need to do more to stop the slow poisoning of minds. A process of brainwashing has continued for years. It needs to be reversed. The strategy for this must be worked out. Psychologists, educators, media people, clerics and others with social influence need to be involved. We must convince people, particularly the young, that militancy and extremism threaten to destroy all that is good about their country. They must play a part in building for it a different future. The story of an educated young man of Pakistani origin in New York, with a family and from a wealthy background, who was apparently willing to risk so much by planting a bomb which was intended to kill ordinary men, women and children should act as an eye-opener to the kind of problems we have allowed to fester in our midst. It is only by changing this that we can hope to move towards a brighter future and a different image for Pakistan.

Terror export

Thanks for sharing.
Words of wisdom indeed. Is it not possible for the educated civil society in Pakistan to at least counter the problem? Schools (especially for girls) will the biggest force multiplier for Pakistan (or any South Asian nation) than any number of Block 52 or Block 1000 Fighters!
How long will Pakistan want to live with this problem? After all, it hurts Pakistan most of all while affecting other countries as well.

 

[T-Faz]

Thanks for sharing info about 'Blind Sheikh'. Very comprehensive at a single source.
The fact that various people collaborated with Him really begs the question- Who is really 'blind'?

Religion and Politics make a very dangerous mix- not at all a pleasant cocktail! This has been proved numerous times in history (across all religions).

Money + Military + Mullahs (or any functionary in any religion) = Recipe for DISASTER.

Then it begs another interesting question, if the blind sheikh was used by CIA back then, is it a possibility that he is being utilised by CIA again in a similar capacity. He is under american custody, and still has a functioning heirarchy.

The best solution to this WOT problem is simple. Admit past mistakes, target the hardline elements together as one and concentrate on peace. This will bring everyone under one roof and help solve the problems we face today.